PhilBennett

Sorry I got Prodrive syndrome then - I mean £1500!!!

JasonHook

Simon

Glad Prodrive is contributing definitely.

I would like to make an observation on the "Dealer Network" comment in your posting above.

Whilst looking into the PPP I discovered that the dealers cut of the price is £300. On top of this the dealer wanted to charge me £300 delivery (from East Anglia). A total cost of £2300.

I'm having trouble understanding:
(i)What the dealer is doing for that £300 (ii)Why I can't save myself an additional £300 and deliver my own car.

Surely the real price for the PPP should be £1700?

It seems to me that we are paying over the odds.

Why can't we do away with the dealer network (who already get all my servicing business) and go direct?

regards
Jason

sunilp

Why should the PPP price be 1700?. Do you expect no one to make a profit to help cover their overheads and running costs?. The warranty back up - where does that come from?. If one wants something out of pot then one should put a little something into a pot. Everyone wants to go out into the world and try and command the highest income they can and yet wants no one else to make money and then argue such illogical statements in a public forum.

Have you asked your dealer why so much for delivery?. The fee is set by the dealer and not by Prodrive. Maybe they have to hire a transporter and a driver to get it there??. Otherwise drive it yourself and get loads of stonechips and lose a day off work. How much will that cost you, for many people i know their "direct" income loss can be as much as 1k a day. You can take it there yourself by arrangement with Prodrive and your dealer.

Ask yourself, would you have so much faith in Prodrive if it wasnt supported by IM and the dealer network?.....i dont think so some how. Then Prodrive would just be an outside like PE, SS, TDi, GGR and we'd have **** all warranty left and very little preconceived faith in the products.

If you want a PPP i can sell you one for 1300.

Please dont take this personal Jason but i get so fed up with the tight arsed mentality on this BBS sometimes. Most people see fit to have a go at me because i can "afford" to run a PPP ECU and a Link ECU, yet emost people on this BBS earn significantly more than me but are just too tight arsed to admit it....If we want the product then we should buy it and not whinge about costs otherwise lets sell our subarus and buy ****ing pushbikes.

Personally the PPP on my MY99 was the smoothest and most refined ECU i ever had and i do not regret my 2k outlay at all. When organisations price such things they have to take into account the fact they have to cover all their costs, inc R&D etc and spread this over a limited amount of units. Now how many PPPs can one expect to sell for a run of cars over 24 months predominantly to a tiny island full of tight arsed gits????

I personally welcome a balanced Prodrive input in whatever way on this BBS. If non UK owners dont like it then they are being ignorant. The more knowledge and input we get as a collective unit the better whatever the angle. No one can force their opinion on someone else so such selfish attiutude really only shows insecurity. One man take on IM and win...hmmmmmm.......dont think so, this aint Knight Rider pal

Rant over

Sunil

[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 30 August 2000).]

Blow Dog

sunil going WAAAAAY overboard there...

People arent saying
"Why the hell are brakes do expensive?"

They are saying
"Why the hell are Prodrive brakes so expensive?"

Thing is Sunil, this is Scoobynet and you will frequently find people here that do NOTHING but spend money on their cars, so you have to understand, you are not the only person who doesnt mind spending a bit of the lady godiva, so your argument holds no water. There is a difference between buying the best and buying the most expensive, you just happen to live on the extreme scale.

Unfortunately, we live in a country where everything costs that much more than Europe and its because of people like you who dont complain when someone is takin the pi55 that the prices dont come down. Prodrive are notorious for charging the earth for their products, dont deny it, its a well known fact. However, people are willing to pay for an exclusive product and it is because of these people that the likes of Prodrive exist, which is fine by me. I think people have a right to moan when they dont think a product is competitively priced though, people do deserve explanations.

I believe you were unfair and harsh in your reply to Jason, his question was purely academic and I agree in many of his points. If you dont sit on the same fence, then I think you have more money to waste than the rest of us.

Cem

ex-webby

Hi All

Firstly, I haven't been able to read every part of this thread so apologies if this has already been stated but...

I for one am thrilled that prodrive (or representatives of) are contributing to our community. Through their motorsport innovations they are probably the single biggest reason it exists and is so popular. Also, it shows an interest and commitment to it's customers. Prodrive is more than welcome here as far as I'm concerned.

Obviously blatant advertising / marketting in the forums would not be welcome as it would insult the people who are currently paying for ad banners. But I have to say I have seen no such content from prodrive. I would also like to draw attention to the fact the Mr Lines actually appologised for his post (which on reading I have to say didn't offend me in any way).

PhillBennet
You are incredibly vocal about this and I sincerely hope you have some kind of strong reason for the comments you have made.

YES, some prodrive parts are expensive, but...

They have proven themselves to be the organisation that does it best. They have devoted a HUGE amount of their resources to the Impreza so need to recoup the development costs from a smaller market than if they hadn't specialised.

As I see it, Mr Lines' posts were genuine, and I hope he won't be put off from providing valuable input in the future.

Best regards

Webmaster

sunilp

Absolute bolloxs Cem. Ask people who have had their engines blow up with 650+VAT rechips, that with hindsight, facing bills of a fair few thousand that would they rather have paid 2k in the first place and have had perfect peace of mind instead?. (assuming of course that their car was catered for)

I do not have more money to waste on my car than most others, i just like to have the best of whatever i believe in. Sometimes price and quality goes hand in hand and sometimes it DOESNT.

You will recall that i no longer run any PPP stuff on my car except the intercooler hosing. This is because i want more power/torque that the Link can give me. I also bought a new set of brakes to replace my brembos and they werent Prodrive, they were AP, so what?

PS
Statement 1, Prodrive brakes dont cost that much more than Brembo or AP or whatever similar.

Statement 2, a car purchased in Belgium, for example, for a resident will almost double in price once local taxes are added making it much more expensive for the resident than an outsider. If we want to be that petty then lets all hold our breath until we turn blue!

Statement 3, why dont you all relocate to somehwere else in Europe and buy your fuel direct from the US and you car parts direct from Japan????. There is no restriction on entry to any individual throught the rest of the developed world who has economic stability and a reasonable level of education.


[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 30 August 2000).]

D Noble

my selection of seafood is the best quality in europe,daily service to all major european cities!

im with the majority,post informitive,funny or just plain useless info,just dont turn the site into lets buyit.com! ,anyway are your posts your own personal thoughts or those of prodrive?

ps,the prodrive suspension kit is worth about 200kg of monkfish,wanna swop???

regards
Dave

Blow Dog

Dont get angry mate, i still have affectionate feelings for you

sunilp

I dont get angry honey, i just get even

Chris L

Lay off Sunil guys - he's only a poor accountant (pimping as a sideline)

I would welcome some input from Prodrive - we are always saying how there is a lack of 'official' involvement with things like the SIDC - so this has to be a good thing.

Blatant marketing will be very obvious and I think that there are enough independents on this board to balance any discussions.

It would be foolish and short-sighted to discourage people like Simon from posting.

Chris

JasonHook

Sunil

No offence taken though you seem to have taken my comment a little personally.

I'm not being critical of Prodrive. I'm not being tight either I'm sure its a good product. I just don't think the dealer is doing anything to warrant the £300 I'm paying him to make a quick call to Prodrive.
SUK say that the PPP is the only warrantied product it doesn't say I have to pay a hidden charge of £300 to get that benefit.

The £300 for delivery included my 50 mile drive to get to him and for him to put it on a lorry then for me to arrange my own travel home and back again to pick the car up.

Incidently Prodrive stated in an e-mail that I could not drop my own car off. C & I would have made a short break of it staying locally whilst the work was carried out. All largely academic for the time being as I'm going for 17" wheels instead.

Jason

PhilBennett

Webmaster - what!!??

I was merely making it known how Prodrive operate. If you don't like the answer to the questions just don't ask.

Fact is Prodrive and myself have been around longer than the Impreza. For sure they offer superb engineering solutions - I think I've already said that. It's just that sometimes the sum of the parts doesn't quite equal.

To give you another example. I know people who have paid for the design of complete components - from the SAME supplier as Prodrive - and still save money. That would be C.V joints then, FYI.

As for Alcon kit - before you jump down my throat call Alcon tomorrow and just ask how much 4 piston calipers and discs are. Then see how much you pay for having Prodrive cast into them.

Don Palmer

Greetings... earth people
For me welcoming Prodrive is the trivial issue. For the record. I do.
Having driven many many Scoobies I have to say I was very impressed with the P1 I drove the other day.
I have worked alongside Prodrive in the past and I'm very impressed with their professionalism and engineering ability.
It is no surprise to note that Simon apologised for what at worst was a very minor indiscretion. It shows strength and sensitivity to the subject.

In my view it would be folly to go over the top on the politics of this whole deal. (thanks Dippy) After all the Scooby community is what this thing is all about. Neil Micklethwaite's points were all well made and I especially liked his comment "We seem to have the UK camp , The Prodrive camp , the STi camp , the European Import camp and the non UK camp at times instead of the Impreza Camp."

Isn't this the real issue here?

I am prompted to ask other crucial questions about the purpose of life as we know it and the sense of loyalty I have to the community that helps me earn an occasional slice of my living too. ( a commercial Icon could be placed here if we had one! Perhaps a couple of £££ would do the trick?)

What are the true values of the Scooby Community? What do people get out of this virtual place?

A sense of community where debate is valid, honest, and a genuine friendship exists between the members of that community who conduct that (those) debate(s).

What are the realities of the situation we find ourselves in?
Who finances this BBS? & How will it continue beyond whatever honeymoon period exists?

In my view the reality is that it must develop or perish. ( My definition of insanity is "do what you always do and expect a different result" ):-)
To my mind that means it must change with the times and develop realistic links with business. And business must respond appropriately. And we need to develop sufficiently to help business do that the way we want it to happen.

This is the best environment I have ever seen for making a point about a specific subject and I for one want it to continue in the proper way. I will move heaven and earth to support it.
I would be very happy to start a new link called commercial activities @ Scoobynet if this were deemed useful. Votes welcome.
Don Palmer (The wetter the better £££)

sunilp

Jason, i spoke at length to Mike Wood at Prodrive and my supplying dealer who both said i could drop my car to Prodrive if i got there before a certain time and that they would then drop me off in the town centre and pick me up at the end of the day when my car was done. In the end i let the dealer transport it for 50 notes as it worked out more convenient.

BTW, buy 18's instead of 17's.

Like i said, its nothing personal but the mentality seems to echo a familar one to many others within this wonderful subaru community and you were the chosen one!.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Prodrive - keeping posting

If nothing else, the opportunity to converse (even "unofficially" ) with Prodrive (the official Subaru Motorsport Team) may lead to greater links with IM & FHI - I'm sure they're reading this but not getting involved. Such dialogue can only be for the greater good of all Subaru owners in the UK & elseware

I'm still hoping for a P1 Wagon

ex-webby

Phil

"I was merely making it known how Prodrive operate. If you don't like the answer to the questions just don't ask."

1) Quotes like "I've got prodrive syndrome" and "People are sick of being ripped off" are hardly genuine constructive comments.

2) I didn't ask any questions.

I am just keen to keep this BBS useful and of the huge benefit it has been for years. The input of the calibre of the company that started it all should be welcomed, not mocked.

If you don't like the pricing structure of prodrive, don't buy anything from them. That is your right as a consumer.

I quote :-
"The problem for Impreza owners is the bull**** factor.
You guy's love it."

This is disrespectful to every contributor of this board, be they supplier OR driver.

Maybe you should find a better way of making your point?

Regards

webmaster

APJ

Geeeez. Whats the problem? Why is it certain suppliers can have extensive threads dedicated to Q&As on their product (I'm thinking wax here), whereas its a major no-no for others?

Acker

Nice to see your input Simon.
I had no problem with your statement.
It will be interesting to see how long you survive on this BBS. Once a few people take a dislike to a company it does appear to snowball on here. You are definitely a target for the STi boys who appear to have a problem with anything with the name Prodrive attached to it. I mean, less than 10 posts and just over 3 weeks on here and they have started on you already. As long as you avoid blatant marketing and put a well reasoned argument together in response to any criticism then you should be OK.

Paul Wilson

I've got an STi and have no problem with Prodrive at all, hey I even know someone there (say hi to pierre when your at the team )

IM seem to have a problem with me though, they just won't talk to me *cry*

note:- I didn't say Prodrive have a problem with me, for all we know (which we don't and I wouldn't ask) Prodrive could be desperate to sell suspension / brakes / take your pick to STi/WRX owners but cannot for contract reasons. Blimey, just think sell more, number of units sold goes up, unit costs go down, prices go down for all, more profit for Prodrive. Can't see it happening mind.

Don't go mate

Craig H

Manufactuers tuning arms (whether it be Prodrive or Sti) always carry their premiums. To many owners, they become something to aspire to.

Exclusivity costs.

I agree with Sunil in that why should companies not be expected to make a profit?

If anyone was in their shoes they would do the same.

Except obviously Phil

PhilBennett

I've not got a problem with Prodrive I'm just pointing out - with real examples - of how they operate.

With regard to the quote "people are sick of being ripped off". Well obviously they are when they go to the trouble of getting things re-manufactured. However this is on the specialist motorsport side.

As for the BS factor - It's not meant to be disrespectful. Some of this kit like buying designer clothes - you stick a label on an item and add a premium.

I can't help feeling that some of this specialist kit is the same. i.e. Alcon calipers don't have Alcon machined on them they have PRODRIVE. Obviously because this branding can command a premium.

If you happy to pay then be my guest. As for Simon contributing to the site then it is a good thing and he shouldn't be discouraged. Plus I'm sure he has heard all of my kind of "moans" before and won't take them badly.

EvilBevel

So can we summarize and agree that it is a Good Thing that Simon will contribute to this bbs ?

Theo

PS: I think we might also benefit from Mike Wood as an active participant ? He seems to provide good info on Iwoc.

NITO

I think it's great that Prodrive are posting on here and the end result can only be beneficial for all parties.

The fact that they are on here at all suggests that Prodrive are keen to get in touch with the Impreza driving community, after all, we are the potential customers, and if they are in touch with our opinions, expectations and so on then the end result can only mean more desirable products that move on/adapt with the times, trends etc...as a result of the direct feedback from us the consumers.

<<I'm still hoping for a P1 Wagon>>
PTMW I'm with you on the P1 wagon!!! How about it PD?? The RB5 would have looked nice as a wagon too!!

As for Prodrive products, yes, they may be more expensive than many equivalents but the level of quality across the board is consistent and of course the "designer" label attracts a premium. Personally I find that the Prodrive brakes are competitively priced (at least the last time I looked)and in retrospect, had I not already bought the AP's I would have gone for the Prodrive conversion no question. Not only would they hold their value better at resale time, especially as they are an accepted upgrade as opposed to a "this car has had the crap thrashed out of it on the track" type upgrade which the AP's would imply to a prospective buyer but also the fact that they have been developed for maximum performance as opposed to with an emphasis on cosmetics such as the original AP kit which used cross drilled discs that are useless on track. I didn't pay £1500 to have a pretty brake upgrade but an effective one. Now I have to spend another £500 odd to replace the cross drilled with grooved so that I can use decent pads and not end up with cracked discs!!

Simon, welcome to the board!!

Nito

Tang

Ignorant question coming up:

What do the acronyms "IM" and "FHI" mean?

Tang

P.S. This all seems way off the point, and the general consensus seems to be that Simon's input is roundly welcomed.

Paul Wilson

IM = International Motors (your friendly official importer of Subarus)

FHI = Fuji Heavy Industries (The parent company of Subaru in Japan)

MorayMackenzie

Hi guys,

I don't know, I don't log in for a day and look what happens!


Just to put my comment into it's correct context, please have a look at the actual thread I posted it on:

Stef

I for one think it's great that anyone from Prodrive is willing to share infromation with us. I may not be their biggest suporter when it comes to 'official' upgrades , but I still admire them as a company.

Simon.
You mention my thread regarding the Eibach springs I recently fitted as if I had made a mistake. What exactly were you referring to?
Since fitting the springs, my car has handled so much better. Other people that have since done the same mod also report the same improvements. What is your reasoning for the comments you made. I am genuinely interested.
I know enough to say that the springs made an improvement, even if I don't know the technical reasons why!
Also, someone mentioned the three year warranty issue. My warranty runs out next week , if I was to purchase any Prodrive kit, is it still warrantied for a further three years?

Nito.
You should have bought the Scoobymania kit in the first place then eh?

Stef.

bob

Sunilp/
Selling your PPP for £1300. Will I still need to trailer my car to Banbury to have it fitted or can anyone fit the PPP. There must be a reason why the car has to be trailered to Banbury or the dealers would fit it.
I welcome Prodrive and Have there Alcon Brake package never paid the £1500 though.

EdwardH

Let them all post.Might be useful to ID people though but I guess most sales attempts are fairly transparent.

Afterall Prodrive are probably only looking for tuning tips on how to get a true 276bhp out of the P1 motor!!!

Sorry if I have precipitated Scoobynet3 with this slanderous post.

Ed

Oh and Simon, I read in the latest SIDC mag that Prodrive won't do any more club specific factory tours. You show us your factory and you can flog your bits on Scoobynet. I for one would love to visit Prodrive.

[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 31 August 2000).]

Neil Micklethwaite

EdwardH

Please read the article again.

Prodrive's line was that they would not take any further SIDC Tours around THIS YEAR as they were trying to ensure that as wide an audience as possible could visit the factory and they only have a limited number of Tour dates available. ( I did try to get the OK for another group tour round later this year but they played fairly and said let other groups have a look first )

The tour was excellent and highly recommended.

Contact your local SIDC Regional organiser and try to get one sorted.