Falling out of LOVE
09 March 2005, 04:33 PM
#31
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Fortunately i have the best of both worlds having a company diesel hack (peugeot 407 SW) and having the Type R to play with at weekends and the shows.I spend no more than £30 a month running the scoob and i can use the diesel for private use aswell for those longer trips at weekends 
09 March 2005, 04:42 PM
#32
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Performance? Superb. Not missing the WRX at all on that front. Handling is better, grip is worse. Lots more fun IMHO.
Toys? Great on the sport spec. For example, cruise control is actually useful on the m/way... Lots of toys.
Running costs? Excellent. 40+ mpg, insurance less than half of a WRX for me, servicing cheap at local independent specialists (lots of 'em around). Only worry is rear tyres - 255/35ZR18s.
Bought from an independent dealer.
Bad points? The badge... Still don't like the BMW image at all, but I really loved the drive. Front discs need replacing quite often. Rear wiper has packed up, but that'll be sorted under warranty. Common as muck
. Not found any other problems yet.
Take a test drive in one and see if you could "live" with it .
And I promised to shut up, didn't I? Sorry
scoobytc, it does sound like you've got the best of all worlds there!
Toys? Great on the sport spec. For example, cruise control is actually useful on the m/way... Lots of toys.
Running costs? Excellent. 40+ mpg, insurance less than half of a WRX for me, servicing cheap at local independent specialists (lots of 'em around). Only worry is rear tyres - 255/35ZR18s.
Bought from an independent dealer.
Bad points? The badge... Still don't like the BMW image at all, but I really loved the drive. Front discs need replacing quite often. Rear wiper has packed up, but that'll be sorted under warranty. Common as muck
. Not found any other problems yet.Take a test drive in one and see if you could "live" with it
.And I promised to shut up, didn't I? Sorry
scoobytc, it does sound like you've got the best of all worlds there!
09 March 2005, 04:58 PM
#33
Sold my Beemer as i could'nt get the dog in the back.
So i bought a WRX Wagon !!!
Best of both world's practicallity and performance.
Just a shame they never made an M3 Estate !!!!!!!!
So i bought a WRX Wagon !!!
Best of both world's practicallity and performance.
Just a shame they never made an M3 Estate !!!!!!!!
09 March 2005, 04:58 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by chiark
I ended up with a BMW 330D sport tourer, as I'm sure everyone's sick of hearing about. Halved my insurance, doubled my fuel economy, halved servicing costs, and depreciation is not going to roger me sideways either. And, worryingly, the car is more fun that the WRX... Nowhere near as much grip, but embarassingly good fun.
09 March 2005, 05:12 PM
#35
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I think we could be missing the point here. One of the fastest A/B road cars is the Impreza and if you want a car of comparable performance I really don't think that the running costs would be any lower.
Fast diesels are becoming very popular and it's easy to see why but claiming one would be as quick down A/B roads as a car in the Impreza's league is just wrong. If we are basing this argument on performance vs pounds then the Impreza (especially in STi form) is one of the best bargains there is. If you are talking however about driver enjoyment then this can change things a little. IMHO the Impreza is so easily capable of really silly speeds that I found I needed to be traveling indescently fast to acheive a reasonalble level of enjoyment in it. I now have a car that gives me this sort of enjoyment at a fraction of the speed. Yes it is a RWD, but not a diesel and it is never going to be as fast 'cross county' as my Impreza was, (it will probably save me getting too many points though.)
To sum up my point is that there is life after the Impreza but if fast A/B roading is your thing then you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper genuine alternative to the Impreza for sheer performance.
Fast diesels are becoming very popular and it's easy to see why but claiming one would be as quick down A/B roads as a car in the Impreza's league is just wrong. If we are basing this argument on performance vs pounds then the Impreza (especially in STi form) is one of the best bargains there is. If you are talking however about driver enjoyment then this can change things a little. IMHO the Impreza is so easily capable of really silly speeds that I found I needed to be traveling indescently fast to acheive a reasonalble level of enjoyment in it. I now have a car that gives me this sort of enjoyment at a fraction of the speed. Yes it is a RWD, but not a diesel and it is never going to be as fast 'cross county' as my Impreza was, (it will probably save me getting too many points though.)
To sum up my point is that there is life after the Impreza but if fast A/B roading is your thing then you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper genuine alternative to the Impreza for sheer performance.
09 March 2005, 07:07 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by alwong
I don't think any fabia vrs will be staying with webbys scooby. I had the misfortune of seeing it go and I have the STI PPP.
09 March 2005, 07:09 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by scoobynutta555
Know what you mean. I rarely drive my P1 even when I have the free time. Its much less hassle getting into the diesel for shopping trips and generally running around in, especially parking! For 8 years Ive been paranoid about where to park, now I have no concerns whatsoever.
Thinking also of a 330d, getting rid of the P1 and the golf and getting a kind of mix of the two. Can afford to keep the P1 but Im seriously questioning why i should keep shelling out on something I dont have as much passion about before.
For what it costs to keep on the road each year compared to a normal car I can have two lots of good holidays a year.
Thinking also of a 330d, getting rid of the P1 and the golf and getting a kind of mix of the two. Can afford to keep the P1 but Im seriously questioning why i should keep shelling out on something I dont have as much passion about before.
For what it costs to keep on the road each year compared to a normal car I can have two lots of good holidays a year.
09 March 2005, 07:20 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by scoobyPAT
I think we could be missing the point here. One of the fastest A/B road cars is the Impreza and if you want a car of comparable performance I really don't think that the running costs would be any lower.
Fast diesels are becoming very popular and it's easy to see why but claiming one would be as quick down A/B roads as a car in the Impreza's league is just wrong. If we are basing this argument on performance vs pounds then the Impreza (especially in STi form) is one of the best bargains there is. If you are talking however about driver enjoyment then this can change things a little. IMHO the Impreza is so easily capable of really silly speeds that I found I needed to be traveling indescently fast to acheive a reasonalble level of enjoyment in it. I now have a car that gives me this sort of enjoyment at a fraction of the speed. Yes it is a RWD, but not a diesel and it is never going to be as fast 'cross county' as my Impreza was, (it will probably save me getting too many points though.)
To sum up my point is that there is life after the Impreza but if fast A/B roading is your thing then you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper genuine alternative to the Impreza for sheer performance.
Fast diesels are becoming very popular and it's easy to see why but claiming one would be as quick down A/B roads as a car in the Impreza's league is just wrong. If we are basing this argument on performance vs pounds then the Impreza (especially in STi form) is one of the best bargains there is. If you are talking however about driver enjoyment then this can change things a little. IMHO the Impreza is so easily capable of really silly speeds that I found I needed to be traveling indescently fast to acheive a reasonalble level of enjoyment in it. I now have a car that gives me this sort of enjoyment at a fraction of the speed. Yes it is a RWD, but not a diesel and it is never going to be as fast 'cross county' as my Impreza was, (it will probably save me getting too many points though.)
To sum up my point is that there is life after the Impreza but if fast A/B roading is your thing then you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper genuine alternative to the Impreza for sheer performance.
09 March 2005, 08:12 PM
#39
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S13 200SX. I just love the way they drive but I didn't have a running cost budget to think of when I built it. As luck would have it, it is far cheaper to run than the Impreza was. £430 fully comp 32-33mpg etc.
If you don't have to carry passangers and want a fun low cost sports car try a Lotus Elise, (or even a VX220 for vauxhall cheap servicing,) 40ish mpg, good insurance prices for the relative performance, etc. (Be warned though this will feel tediously flat on the straights compared with the Impreza.)
Edited to correct VX220
If you don't have to carry passangers and want a fun low cost sports car try a Lotus Elise, (or even a VX220 for vauxhall cheap servicing,) 40ish mpg, good insurance prices for the relative performance, etc. (Be warned though this will feel tediously flat on the straights compared with the Impreza.)
Edited to correct VX220
Last edited by scoobyPAT; 09 March 2005 at 08:15 PM.
09 March 2005, 08:32 PM
#40
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To get decent performance from a diesel you really have to go for the larger engined ones like the 330, it is a great car but you pay for it at the pumps - 40mpg is still good but the 03 WRX is an improvement on the earlier ones and 28-30mpg is not too shabby. If you go for older cars then of course the price difference comes down but the 330 at the same age mileage and cond will still cost several thou more than a WRX tho admittedley the older WRX will be less fuel efficient. The point is do the maths on how much fuel you have to use to make up the cost difference. Based on the current shocking £4 per gallon:
330 10K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £1,000
WRX 10K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £1,600 Xtra £600 Xtra Ins £400.00 TOT XTRA £1000
330 20K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £2,000
WRX 20K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £3,200 Xtra £1,200 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£1,600
330 30K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £3,000
WRX 30K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £4,800 Xtra £1,800 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£2,200
Re maintainence I dont think the scoob will be any more than the BM?
So worst case at 30k miles pa over 3 years the scoob will cost you £6600 more to run so you will still save cash on new or newer models, on older ones you might break even. If youre only doing 10k miles a year however you will save shed loads of cash or is my CSE Grade 1 maths letting me down!
So my suggestion would be - buy a brand new WRX, put the 12K you save over the 330 into your petrol account and let me know when you run out of petrol money!
330 10K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £1,000
WRX 10K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £1,600 Xtra £600 Xtra Ins £400.00 TOT XTRA £1000
330 20K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £2,000
WRX 20K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £3,200 Xtra £1,200 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£1,600
330 30K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £3,000
WRX 30K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £4,800 Xtra £1,800 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£2,200
Re maintainence I dont think the scoob will be any more than the BM?
So worst case at 30k miles pa over 3 years the scoob will cost you £6600 more to run so you will still save cash on new or newer models, on older ones you might break even. If youre only doing 10k miles a year however you will save shed loads of cash or is my CSE Grade 1 maths letting me down!
So my suggestion would be - buy a brand new WRX, put the 12K you save over the 330 into your petrol account and let me know when you run out of petrol money!
Last edited by WRBlu; 09 March 2005 at 08:38 PM.
09 March 2005, 10:18 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by WRBlu
To get decent performance from a diesel you really have to go for the larger engined ones like the 330, it is a great car but you pay for it at the pumps - 40mpg is still good but the 03 WRX is an improvement on the earlier ones and 28-30mpg is not too shabby. If you go for older cars then of course the price difference comes down but the 330 at the same age mileage and cond will still cost several thou more than a WRX tho admittedley the older WRX will be less fuel efficient. The point is do the maths on how much fuel you have to use to make up the cost difference. Based on the current shocking £4 per gallon:
330 10K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £1,000
WRX 10K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £1,600 Xtra £600 Xtra Ins £400.00 TOT XTRA £1000
330 20K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £2,000
WRX 20K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £3,200 Xtra £1,200 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£1,600
330 30K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £3,000
WRX 30K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £4,800 Xtra £1,800 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£2,200
Re maintainence I dont think the scoob will be any more than the BM?
So worst case at 30k miles pa over 3 years the scoob will cost you £6600 more to run so you will still save cash on new or newer models, on older ones you might break even. If youre only doing 10k miles a year however you will save shed loads of cash or is my CSE Grade 1 maths letting me down!
So my suggestion would be - buy a brand new WRX, put the 12K you save over the 330 into your petrol account and let me know when you run out of petrol money!
330 10K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £1,000
WRX 10K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £1,600 Xtra £600 Xtra Ins £400.00 TOT XTRA £1000
330 20K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £2,000
WRX 20K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £3,200 Xtra £1,200 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£1,600
330 30K miles pa 40MPG Fuel Cost £3,000
WRX 30K miles pa 25MPG Fuel Cost £4,800 Xtra £1,800 Xtra Ins £400 TOT XTRA£2,200
Re maintainence I dont think the scoob will be any more than the BM?
So worst case at 30k miles pa over 3 years the scoob will cost you £6600 more to run so you will still save cash on new or newer models, on older ones you might break even. If youre only doing 10k miles a year however you will save shed loads of cash or is my CSE Grade 1 maths letting me down!
So my suggestion would be - buy a brand new WRX, put the 12K you save over the 330 into your petrol account and let me know when you run out of petrol money!
10 March 2005, 12:08 AM
#42
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If I was driving to the south of France I would be glad of a Passat TDI or for that matter a BMW 330D. If you are doing a lot of long distance driving then you want comfort and economy. The Passat is mega economical but does not really compare to the 330D or WRX though for performance or desirability. You will absolutely have to fill up a lot more in a scoob compared to the passat.
If you are doing over 30k miles a year because of your European trips and want a good performance car as well the 330D makes sense. IMHO If you are doing less than 30k miles a year then its not necesarily a cheaper option to buy a large capacity diesel like the 330D due to the high initial purchase price, it takes a lot of miles to recoup the savings. Its up to you whether you sacrifice the long distance comfort for WRX fun or vice versa!
If you are doing over 30k miles a year because of your European trips and want a good performance car as well the 330D makes sense. IMHO If you are doing less than 30k miles a year then its not necesarily a cheaper option to buy a large capacity diesel like the 330D due to the high initial purchase price, it takes a lot of miles to recoup the savings. Its up to you whether you sacrifice the long distance comfort for WRX fun or vice versa!
Last edited by WRBlu; 10 March 2005 at 12:12 AM.
10 March 2005, 11:04 AM
#43
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I am comparing the costs of running a new WRX (20k new) with a 3 year old 330D. It worked out significantly cheaper a month for me to change to the BMW than keep a 2 year old WRX. I'm happy. I'm not trying to convert everyone to my "one true way", just saying that if you think a standard WRX is way superior to a decent diesel then you need to drive both, and preferably have an enthusiastic drive against each other.
Go and find a standard 03 WRX, and a standard new Fabia VRS. It is definitely in the same league - I speak from caning the **** out of my WRX against one, and not being astonished by the WRX's performance. Cold evening, so no huge losses due to heat, and a twisty A road...
The WRX was more fun in milton keynes (I'm there today) but on the other hand, the handling of the BMW makes it more exciting . I really need to learn to drive properly
Fast diesels are becoming very popular and it's easy to see why but claiming one would be as quick down A/B roads as a car in the Impreza's league is just wrong
The WRX was more fun in milton keynes (I'm there today) but on the other hand, the handling of the BMW makes it more exciting
. I really need to learn to drive properly
10 March 2005, 07:22 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by chiark
I am comparing the costs of running a new WRX (20k new) with a 3 year old 330D. It worked out significantly cheaper a month for me to change to the BMW than keep a 2 year old WRX. I'm happy. I'm not trying to convert everyone to my "one true way", just saying that if you think a standard WRX is way superior to a decent diesel then you need to drive both, and preferably have an enthusiastic drive against each other.
Go and find a standard 03 WRX, and a standard new Fabia VRS. It is definitely in the same league - I speak from caning the **** out of my WRX against one, and not being astonished by the WRX's performance. Cold evening, so no huge losses due to heat, and a twisty A road...
The WRX was more fun in milton keynes (I'm there today) but on the other hand, the handling of the BMW makes it more exciting . I really need to learn to drive properly
Go and find a standard 03 WRX, and a standard new Fabia VRS. It is definitely in the same league - I speak from caning the **** out of my WRX against one, and not being astonished by the WRX's performance. Cold evening, so no huge losses due to heat, and a twisty A road...
The WRX was more fun in milton keynes (I'm there today) but on the other hand, the handling of the BMW makes it more exciting
. I really need to learn to drive properly
10 March 2005, 09:56 PM
#45
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That fabia sounds interesting, I guess it would give a Std WRX a scare but then so would a Clio 182.
If you look at my calc it will cost approx 1600 pa more to run the scoob over the 330d, I guess you also have to look at how long you keep the car, the longer you keep it the more sense the diesel makes purely in financial terms. Residual value is also a consideration, again it depends how long you keep the car, work that out and you will be getting close.
The 320d might fit the bill? thats supposed to be very economical 50+ mpg but obviously less performance, can chip em though. Theres a new 168 bhp Golf 4 motion diesel coming out - gonna be expensive though i bet. Older audi A4 quattro tdi's also fit your criteria in 2.0L 130bhp and and 163/180bhp 2.5L.
If you look at my calc it will cost approx 1600 pa more to run the scoob over the 330d, I guess you also have to look at how long you keep the car, the longer you keep it the more sense the diesel makes purely in financial terms. Residual value is also a consideration, again it depends how long you keep the car, work that out and you will be getting close.
The 320d might fit the bill? thats supposed to be very economical 50+ mpg but obviously less performance, can chip em though. Theres a new 168 bhp Golf 4 motion diesel coming out - gonna be expensive though i bet. Older audi A4 quattro tdi's also fit your criteria in 2.0L 130bhp and and 163/180bhp 2.5L.
10 March 2005, 11:55 PM
#46
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Chiark, I feel slightly disturbed at your promotion of diesels over scoobs on this enthusiast's site. Surely the whole point of being an enthusiast is revelling in the good points of your chosen marque and not doing it down all the time by highlighting its shortcomings. Do other enthusiast forums behave in this way? Are we all becoming embarrassed to own a Subaru?
11 March 2005, 07:55 AM
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Bubba, horses for courses
All I'm trying to do (rather evangelically) is make people realise that there's some bloody good cars out there that, if their financial situation changes and they need to lose the scoob, it's not the end of the world.
If I could justify the running costs of an STI with DCCD, PPP and PPH, I'd have one. Problem is I have better things to spend my money on now - he's about 18 months old - so whilst I could afford to run one, I can't justify it.
I love the scoob, still do, and as has been mentioned I can see me buying a cheap one in the future to be a hooligan in , but for me the WRX didn't have enough performance over a diesel to justify the comparatively daft running costs. If Subaru did an STI Wagon, I'd have probably bought one instead of the WRX wagon in 2003, and I'd probably still be driving it... I was going to keep the wagon for 5 years, but when I compared the performance and running costs against a diesel, it was an easy choice to get rid of it.
Forums are all about diversity. This forum is genuinely great in that we normally get fairly reasoned debate, even when subjects which have got people's emotions involved come up. A few years ago it was "scoob vs cossie" all the time, and finally the board as a whole has realised that they're all enthusiasts cars driven by drivers who enjoy driving, so there's no daft animosity like some boards suffer from.
You are right tho, I should probably shut up banging my drum (Sith has tried to take it away ) quite so loudly.
But if you can't justify the running costs of a scoob for the performance, it isn't the end of the world to change brands .
All I'm trying to do (rather evangelically) is make people realise that there's some bloody good cars out there that, if their financial situation changes and they need to lose the scoob, it's not the end of the world.
If I could justify the running costs of an STI with DCCD, PPP and PPH, I'd have one. Problem is I have better things to spend my money on now
- he's about 18 months old - so whilst I could afford to run one, I can't justify it. I love the scoob, still do, and as has been mentioned I can see me buying a cheap one in the future to be a hooligan in
, but for me the WRX didn't have enough performance over a diesel to justify the comparatively daft running costs. If Subaru did an STI Wagon, I'd have probably bought one instead of the WRX wagon in 2003, and I'd probably still be driving it... I was going to keep the wagon for 5 years, but when I compared the performance and running costs against a diesel, it was an easy choice to get rid of it.Forums are all about diversity. This forum is genuinely great in that we normally get fairly reasoned debate, even when subjects which have got people's emotions involved come up. A few years ago it was "scoob vs cossie" all the time, and finally the board as a whole has realised that they're all enthusiasts cars driven by drivers who enjoy driving, so there's no daft animosity like some boards suffer from.
You are right tho, I should probably shut up banging my drum (Sith has tried to take it away
) quite so loudly.But if you can't justify the running costs of a scoob for the performance, it isn't the end of the world to change brands
.
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