Leslie

Well from what I have seen so far, PSL's statements are straight from NL, in other words, they say what they want you to believe.If however, you look into all those claims very carefully, the other side of the coin, ie all the stealth tax rises, and proper analysis of the statistics involved shows that it all a big smokescreen as UB showed.

Its a great example of "All mouth and trousers"

It was interesting to see both the Home Secretary and TB both turn away from the questioner and ignore him yesterday when they were each asked something that they had no satisfactory answer to!

Les

pslewis

Popeye needs to get a life, eh?

How about us all contributing to a Help Popeye Think Straight Fund??

He really is one sad loser .... reading ALL my posts with a vengence and then, stupidly, actually posting what a freak of nature

Pete

pslewis

And I make no apology for pasting what the experts say, like I said - this place is one where I come to play .... not to invest too much energy

10 THINGS LABOUR HAS DONE IN SCOTLAND

1. Highest employment ever and fewer people living in poverty. Absolute child poverty in Scotland has fallen from 34 to 21% and unemployment in Scotland is at its lowest level for a generation.

2. Over the term of this Parliament 137,000 homes have been made warmer and more energy efficient through our Warm Deal programme.

3. Record investment in Health and Education, insuring that Scotland health provision is kept at European levels.

4. Labour are investing £250 million over the next two years to ensure that all older people who require personal or nursing care will receive it for free, wherever they are cared for.

5. A free nursery place for every three and four year old

6. More police officers than ever and highest ever crime clear up rates. Since 1997 the police clear up rate in Scotland has risen 45% - a post war record.

7. Tuition fees waived so greatest ever number of Scots to go to University. For the first time over half of school leavers are continuing their studies in either further or higher education. Under Labour Scotland’s poorest students are receiving Bursaries of up to £2,000 a year and are up to £1,000 a year better off in real terms than twenty years ago.

8. New powers to seize the assets of drug dealers.

9. 20 000 modern apprenticeships created one year ahead of schedule. These are proving successful in combining education with employment, every trainee is in a job.

10. Free local off peak bus travel for pensioners and the disabled. From October 2002 we have introduced free local bus travel for all pensioners and the disabled in Scotland and will extend the scheme to all over 60 years olds.

Theres MORE, what a fantastic bunch Labour are ..... honestly, I didn't realise they had done so much positive stuff for EVERYONE!

Pete

jasey

Another thing they've done in Scotland

Put a budget for a new home of £40 Million then spent £440 Million on it and it's not big enough !

Useless tossers up here just like the fannies down sarf

unclebuck

Looks like we agree again.

Possibly the most bitter and miserable poster yet.

UB

(somebody else will have to sort out PSL's scottish list of New Labour lies...)

unclebuck

Winner takes all I'm afraid.


Cheers Daz....

pslewis

Glad I'm not alone in thinking Popeye is just an evil pile of puss, he really is a vile creature - we agree on that.

But, the girls MINE!! I'm much better looking that you, she can stroke my beard and look at my bulging ....... wallet

Pete

ajm

Is Labour throwing in the towel then?

mj

I'm dipping my toe in here, because I have only ever voted once, so in truth not really qualified to speak. I remember asking my mum years ago who she voted for, blah blah.... that's not important - but one thing she did say was all labour ever did was borrow money and give it away to get votes, then left the mess and the debt for the next people in to clear up.


Pslewis's views on politics are based on his age and what he will gain from labour because of it, either that, or he has cottage cheese between his ears.

Pete - have you always voted labour?

They are giving this country to the great unwashed and the european arseholes IMHO.

pslewis

10 THINGS LABOUR HAS DONE IN WALES

1. Free bus travel for women over 60 and men 65 (men 60 from April 1st 2003) and disabled people

2. Assembly Learning Grants for students from less well off families

3. Cut class sizes for all primary school children

4. Free school milk

5. Eight new hospitals for Wales open or underway

6. Free personal care for the elderly for six weeks after they leave hospital

7. Free prescription charges for under 25s and frozen for all

8. 88 of Wales' most deprived communities benefiting from the Communities First regeneration programme - £83 million for next 3 years

9. £18 million funding for drug and alcohol rehabilitation and funding for the fight against drug crime

10 Largest government investment programme - £115 million - to expand Broadband access and technology

Looks good to me

What a party, what a whitewash the Tories will suffer

Pete

ajm

-10 pts for copy/pasting again!

pslewis

I will say, with absolute certainty, I have NEVER voted Tory!!

How I vote is between me and the election box ...... thank you very much

Pete

pslewis

I have never made a secret of it!?

Doesn't make it any less true and correct

And I am enjoying finding out how well Labour have done ..... I was tongue-in-cheek before I started this debate ..... now, I am COMPLETELY sold on Labour

They have done a FANTASTIC job - better than I thought

Pete

mj

Swell, its all geared around people that can't be arsed to work for a living, and I'm paying for it.
free school milk - ace

Diesel

I do not know how such an oxymoronic right wing socialist has problems understanding percentages when they have such a tight grip of economics.

You try to sell the house price inflation thing as 'good'. It patently is NOT on so many levels - even more so if you really are a 'socialist'. Key is that we are all chucking away a higher percentage of our income in monthly interest payments than ever before whilst owning less (e.g a £250k capital repayment is a stiff burden - £10k a year for 25 years - and that's ON TOP of the huge interest payments). BRILLIANT - I clearly am WAY too stupid to know I'm on a winner on those sums sat in my palacial semi LOL.

Living in a small house in an ok area is not a privilidge so you are soooooo flawed and alone in your 'tough' 'I'm alright jack' attitude. Tell it to Kilroy maybe - he's so more you!

D

tiggers

Nice thread

My money is on unclebuck - we may not be politically aligned, but at least he can construct a good argument to back up his points (well most of the time anyway ) whereas pslewis is a lightweight 'cut and paste' troll who is actually probably turning people away from the Labout party to be honest

Nah, I'll have a tenner on unclebuck - safest bet in the world.

tiggers.

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

I would like to thank astraboy for starting this thread as it helps me get to sleep.
Thanks
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sewer rat

has anyone posting on this string ever worked under a tory govenment dealing with people who suffered under them. during the 80's and 90'sworking for a flagship tory council i witnessed how things for the old, poor and disadvantaged went downhill. i might not like whats going on at the moment but imho the only good tory is one thats not in power.

pslewis

Well said!

And Diesel above ........ crying about the mortgage he took out, I assume he didn't have a Labour MP holding a gun to his head? Ha Ha Ha - grow up and stop looking for someone to blame because you can't manage your own finances


10 THINGS LABOUR NEVER PROMISED TO DO, BUT HAS DONE


1. Record police numbers. Up over 10000 in the years to March 2004, the latest date for which figures are available.

2. Reformed the adoption laws so that unmarried couples can adopt.

3. Free fruit now available in schools for all 4-6 year olds.

4. Free access to all our national museums for everyone.

5. Introduced compensation for British service personnel and civilians who suffered as Far East Prisoners of War during the Second World War.

6. 390,000 young people have been helped from welfare to work through the New Deal exceeding the 250,000 we promised.

7. Increased the proportion of national wealth devoted to international aid to 0.4 per cent of GDP, well above the OECD average of 0.22%.

8. Increased personal allowances in Income Support for children aged under 11 - almost double in real terms.

9. In April 2002 the UK launched the world’s first economy-wide Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading scheme.

10. Together with the other G7 nations, we agreed a package of $100 billion of debt relief to assist 41 of the most heavily indebted poor countries. The 2002 Spending Review announced the largest ever increase in UK aid and almost double the 1997 level.

What a party, how can ANYONE want to go back to the dark ages when the TORIES threw a shadow over this great country!!

Pete

astraboy

Round 2 appears to be over and it is my job to declare the winner!.
*lines up fighters and hold a glove in each hand*
The winner on points is......
NOBODY!
Both fighters scored zero points for not actually fighting!
Examples include:
Agreeing with each other,
Getting all lovey dovey,
Generally being slack in the dishing out abuse department.
*Ref takes fighters to one side*
Look lads, I'm not asking for spilt blood here, but FFS, you got to start doing some damage to each other [****** mode] They'll 'ang us from the ring ropes if they think its rigged[/sm] not next round get out there and hurt each other!!!
*sends fighters back to their respective corners for "magic sponge" treatment*
And as the girly walks around the arena holding up a card with a "3" on it and looking pretty, its over to our commentry team for their feelings before the third round kicks in.
astraboy.

astraboy

Jim "Count Von Count" Rosenthal - Barry, I can tell your not happy with that last round, why dont you take us through it?

Washed up has been - I'm very dissapointed Jim, I think the crowd are feeling the same too. We all came here to see a titanic battle a' la morte and what we are seeing just isnt it.

J"CVC"R - What has been the biggest let down for you then Barry?

WUHB- Quite simply Jim, they are not fighting! Its the reason they are both here and they are not coming up with the goods. Both pull no punches when they are usually squaring up, but now they are actually in an arena, they seem to have put away the gloves and got out the My Little Pony playset instead.

J"CVC"R - What do you think the rest of the fight has in store Barry.

WUHB - Well Jim, if you asked me 24 hours ago I would have said the fight looked promising, now I just dont know. They crowd are getting uppity and quite frankly I dont blame them. Both fighters have their reputations on the line here. Qute frankly they need to pull their socks up becuase if they dont, we could be looking at a ring invasion from the crowd, or even worse, the fuking birdman turning up in his parasailing rig.

J"CVC"R - Barry, thank you very much. Well the third round is upon us, lets get back to the action....

Seconds out, Round 3!!!!!
*Clang*

Jye

Load of crap. Most of these are *not* sustainable jobs plus they include the figures for the 'in job' option of the new deal which only lasts 6 months. We get New Deal 'clients' back on the gateway time and time again. Plus ND has been cut from 6 months to 3 under the voluntary sector option, plus they are cutting back Training for Work for those older that the 18 - 25 that ND covers. These ND figures also include the 'education' option where stoodents are hidden from the true unemloyment figures for another year. Just more spin, waffle and massaging of statistics.

unclebuck

Ok, enough cutting and pasting of slogans from New Labour's website.

Let's check out some FACTS instead.

This round will be a walk over once we've taken a look at Blair's record on taxation.

Every serious economic commentator says Labour's plans mean big tax rises after the election. It is not a question of whether Blair will put up taxes - but which taxes he would put up. If the respected independent Institute for Fiscal Studies is right, Labour's policies will mean £11 billion of tax rises straight away - a 3p rise in National Insurance that is equivalent to £1,000 a year extra to pay for a typical working couple. Instead of woolly and meaningless talk about "free fruit", what the British public need from Labour is an honest answer to the question - which tax are you going to raise?

In 1995, Blair promised that he had ‘no plans to increase tax at all’ (Financial Times, 21 September 1995) but he has increased taxes 66 times by stealth.

In 1996, Blair promised: ‘our proposals do not involve raising taxes’ (Daily Express, 2 August 1996), but under his Government taxes have gone up by the equivalent of £5,000 for every household in the UK.

In 1997, Blair promised: ‘New Labour is not about taxes on ordinary families’ (Labour Manifesto) but under Blair, council tax has gone up by 70 per cent and if council tax continues soaring at the same rate it has under Blair, it will hit £2,000 if he is elected for four more years.

In 1997, Blair promised that ‘Labour want their taxes low just like everyone else’ (Labour Gala Dinner, 12 March 1997) but under Blair, first-time
buyers now pay an average of over £1,000 in stamp duty and people who bought their council flats in the 1980s are now being hit by inheritance tax.

In 1998, Mr Blair’s Chancellor promised ‘I am not going to go for proposals that mean more tax and more spending’ (Daily Mail, 31 July 1998) but under
Blair, one million more people pay top rate tax.

In 1999, Mr Blair promised ‘We are cutting taxes’ (Hansard, 10 November 1999, Col. 1126) but Mr Blair’s 66 stealth tax rises equate to 16.5 pence on
the basic rate of income tax.

In 2001, when Blair was asked whether reasonable people should suppose that he was planning to put up National Insurance, he replied ‘they shouldn’t’ (BBC2, Newsnight, 22 May 2001) but in his first Budget after the 2001 election, Blair’s Chancellor announced that the rate of National Insurance paid by employees and employers would increase by one per cent.

Now, just months before an election, he’s at it again, making the same old promises: ‘Labour’s priority will be tax relief for the millions of hardworking
families’ (Party Conference Speech, 2004).

All just a pack of New Labour lies.

Graz

The big flaw in this arguement is that it's all well and good if you already own a house, yes then you would be saving loads of money.

However us unlucky people who are now in a position of wanting to buy a house are faced with a market where there is nothing that we can afford, unless you count a titchy semi in a rather less than desirable area. What are NL offering to do to help solve this situation, f'all as far as I've heard. That is the main issue effecting me today and as a consequnce of this they won't be getting my vote in the next election.

I'm not exactly on the breadline or anything either, I earn a respectable wage now as an engineer / programmer, pay high rate tax , spent my time at university getting a sensible qualification for my chosen career, etc. I just fell into a trap that on leaving Uni I had a reasonable amount of debt to clear, I had to move away from home to find suitable work so that meant renting, engineers salaries were poor back then, thankfully things have improved a lot on that front So now having finally stockpiled the amount of money I thought I would need to get on the ladder I find my aspirations are screwed.

Fingers crossed for a crash, but no offer from T.Blair and co to help solve the situation that thousands of people must now be in.

hawkthescoobslayer

an uppercut of immense proportions sends pete's gumshield ...... no wait false teeth & gumshield flying across the canvas

any minute now the unclebuck haymaker will reign fury down on the pete-ster

unclebuck

I don't think he'll be recovering from that little combination before the end of this round. I hope not anyway, as I'm pacing myself for the full 5.

UB

pslewis

pslewis, ducks and weaves and throws up the final smack in UB's Tory Gob!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/asgur...g/pop07b.shtml

UB hits the canvas with the stark realisation that what he is accusing Labour of ... was done to death under his beloved Tories!

Ding Dong the Tories GONE!

Pete

unclebuck

More cut and pasting is Lewis's only response, as his concussed, punch drunk brain is incapable of constructing a coherent arguement.

pslewis

As Ernie Ross says:

The General Election

I would like to take this opportunity to issue a warning to you as we approach the General Election. We know from past experience that the Tory campaign will be based on fear and lies.

With the Tories trailing badly in the opinion polls, we can expect them to excel themselves with cynicism and deceit in an attempt to gain office.

Labour will respond. We will respond not by being dragged into the gutter, but by exposing Tory lies and by outlining Labour's positive approach and positive programme for government.

The country deserves better than the Tories have to offer.

Labour will take nothing for granted, but we WILL win a massive show of support.

We will fight for each and every vote.

We will build on the trust we have built up in the people.

The next election will decide not just who governs the country, but also the values by which our country is governed.

We need to build a society equipped to face the technological, economic and social changes that we find at the end of the twentieth century.

We need a society where opportunity is available to the many, not the few.

We need New Labour.

I would urge you to visit the Labour Party's excellent web-site.There you will find our policies outlined. You will see a comprehensive and coherent set of policies which will equip our country for the challenges ahead.

Change will only happen if people go out and vote for that change.

Pete

Jye

Stop the fight, he's suffering from serious concussion