bottles look same but are the contents absolutely the same??

 

Why would they make a diferent product to do the same job? Doesnt make any sense. Thats what the service techs over there think it is, just a bottle of radweld.

 

Bodgetastic

 

Got a scoobyclinic 2.5 in mine too



Currently running at 1.3 bar it got.........

 

Yikes!
Just look at that lot

Fab

911

 

nice one DaveBlue,,but you got any RADWELD in it??

 

Nope, no RADWELD in yet


And for the guy who asked about running in

Mine had a 3k limiter and 0.3/0.4 boost for 1st 1ooo miles
then limiter was raised to 4.5k and 1 bar of boost for around another 4k
then delimited to a 7k limiter and 1.3 bar

 

I can feel a 'mega-spend' coming on..... I'd originally intended to leave mine alone this year, but I think I'm more likely to want to get to the stage where the 2L can be swapped out towards the end of the year, as it'll have (assuming it lasts that long, and doesn't go the way my 'box went last week) 160K on it -

Be interesting to compare the costs of a 'scoobyclinic type solution' with building one yourself - (as I'm sure plenty have done) - Think I'll have to do some digging.....

Also, does the extra hike in available power/reliability REALLY justify the difference in cost between the 2.5 and a 2L ? There do seem to be a few 400+ 2Ls about, so is it possible to build a reliable 2L for the price of the 2.5 ?

Mark

 

I'm a little curious as to why, when going to all the trouble with your 2.5 build Dave, why didn't you go for the 'clocked 45 degree' option on the turbo??

It would allow far shorter pipework, and would only cost you the extra for the up/downpipes?? you could then run the Intercooler flow the other way.

 

Mark:
Very good question to ask, 2000 v 2500cc

Having just squeezed 407 x 340 ish from my 2000, maybe the 2500 can do this 400x400 run every time?

Seems to me the 2500 is a good quick and easy mod, and the 2200 is a bit more as you have to split the block etc.

hope my Sti goes through the year (and the box)

911

 

You can't just compare "peak" figures between a 2.0lt and 2.5lt, and get a true picture of the differences.

The 2.5lt is SO much more drivable.

IIRC, John Banks gets circa 1bar of boost at 2500rpm (TD05/6 20G) and full boost by 3000rpm.

Compare one of Johns 400ftlb/400bhp graphs to a 2.0lt claiming the same, or even higher figures !!!

I know what I'd rather be driving.


Mark.

 

Maybe the real difference is in the torque - I'm not sure of the spec of motors such as Harveys, but most 'true' 2Ls (where they've not been stroked etc) seem to be OK for HP, but 'lacking' (for want of a better phrase) in torque. It seems that a lot of 340-360 hp 2000s are making 310-320 lbs/ft. - The question then goes to the guys owning these 2.5s - how different to drive (on the road) is a 400x400 to a 380x330 ?

i.e. when does that torque make the real difference - if its a matter of overtaking in 4th, rather than 3rd - to save revving it, then I'm not interested - but if its a matter of extending the power range, so that I can go from 30-90 as fast in third, as a 2L in 2nd and 3rd, but without the gear change, then its an obvious advantage....

Considering the 'easiness' of the change - I think that you're right on the surface, but when I think about, what exactly is easier - If I went back 15 months, and started again - but this time 2.5L, I'd still need larger injectors, better fuelling, FMIC, larger turbo (was TD04), K+N, inlet pipe, breather mods, headers, PFC - so where's the 'easy' bit ?

I have to confess to being a little confused over the issue, it seems that the 2.5L is suited to 400x400, but without high boost, where the 2L seems to be able to run 1.6+ bar fairly easily -

in danger of digressing the thread here, so I'll start another one if preferred ?

Mark

 

I'd prefer the thread to 'blossom-out'.

Does anyone run a 2.5 on a TMIC, ie an Sti8 unit?

The cost of the 2.5 conversion keeps to a smaller budget if it can run well on a TMIC of this size, otherwise were are off to another £800 on top of the conversion.
As my hill climb Stiv3 with an 8 TMIC only needs short blasts at full tilt, possibly the TMIC will be ok, especially with fans?

Graham.

 

Driving a 2.5 on the road compared to a 2.0l, erm let me see, what would i go for....

...2.5 every time.

The difference, from a drivers point of view is unbelievable, they just have so much grunt low down you cant really compare them.

John banks did a lot of test figures, so hes better to quote, but i can only describe it as 3rd accelerating like 2nd on the 2.0l.

I could put mine in 6th at 40mph and put my foot down, and it would pull harder than the 2.0l would in 4th(on a 5speed), and once it got to 60, it was away.

Dont know what my 2.5 was kicking out power wise, would guess towards 400, and torque of a very similar figure. My 2.0l was consistently between 340 and 360bhp and 320-340lbft.

Graham, the 2.5 with the 20g and the STi8 TMIC, would IMO, be unbelieveable, especially for hill climbing, the spool up would be amazing.

Anyone who saw John Banks car start making the rollers at prosport struggle at just 2000-2500rpm would understand. Watching that made me get my 2.5 underway, instead of leaving the parts to hibernate, although my 2.0l snapped a rod 2 weeks after prosport so the 2.5 went in the car earlier than expected.

Steven

 

OK nice to have to 2.5... but how the hell do you insure one...


to me that seems the biggest problem!

what are people doing...

Dazza

 

I was lucky tbh, one of the longer serving customers of Liv Vic, although they said they wouldnt renew the next time around

Rang a company, name written down at work, and with everything listed, and based on a target of 500bhp and torque, the premium was coming out at circa £900 fully comp. Thats for me and the wife, full no claims, 19000 write off for me 3 years ago, top end security, both 29, and good postcode.

Steven

 

I'm a bit more pleased about my 2.5 after it tolerated Knockhill today - although only at 1.25 bar. I think there is a learning curve in getting them to work.

 

Maybe it would be time to 'trailer' the Sti when it gets to 2.5.
The insurance for one year would buy the trailer, then you would save £1000 each year on. That would offset the entry fees (just).

I am sure you are right Steve (as you were about 407..)

Houghton's 2.5 Wagon realy was amazing. So, 2.5 and a 6 speeder..another 5K then at Xmas.

Graham

 

does the us sti with the 2.5 use the same TMIC as our 2.0 sti over here?

 

Graham, I guess I'm in the position of already owning the hybrid FMIC, so I'd really be looking to build on the current parts, but I understand the point. Also, as the car would stay a daily driver, the insurance situation is relevant too.

Steven, sounds very much like I need to see one in action - Oddly, I don't think I've been in another non-standard impreza (and only a couple of standard ones too) (Always a bit too shy at any meets etc!)

John, do you think that the learning curve has been 'travelled' already by the commercial suppliers, and its just 'self-builders' that are still in the dark, or is it a matter of 400x400 is relatively easy, so everyone is at this level, but to push the envelope will take more experience, much as it has I guess with the 2.0, where the 'standard' seems to have lifted somewhat over the past 3 years ? (I've not had chance to read your '2.5 post for pat' on 22b yet ..)

Having made the decision that it will be cheaper (and not detrimental) to keep my car over the next 4 years, even with this sort of spend, than to buy a new sti and then start the mods again, I'm going to have to commit to some major replacements this next 12-18 months, including engine and (depending on route) a 6mt - might as well get it right ( )

Mark

 

400/400 is easy. Some commercial suppliers may have tricks up their sleeves of course, but where are the cars doing the business on 2.5s so far?

 

John Banks, were youy able to get the 400/400 on streight 98 with the td05 *** end or did you need additives. i'm stuck at 360/380lb/ft as it looks like bp96 just wont do it and i'll need a bigger exhaust side.

 

John, I think that your statement clarifies things for me at least - my 'confusion' over the fuss of the 2.5 is in that it doesn't seem to bring that much more -

I guess its a matter of 'early days' yet - seems that the start point of 400x400 is far in excess of the 'easy' mod point of a 2000 (I guess around 320), but the 'fine tune' is yet to come. (Hence the number of 2000s with much more than the 2.5s)

I wonder whether, at this point, standard internals of a 2.5 are up to the job (I think scoobyclinics 2.5s are still on standard?) - perhaps they're being swapped out by many in expectation of more, when its not there yet for 'followers' like me, rather than pioneers like yourself ?

If that's true, then I suspect that anyone considering a rebuild needs to ask if they're happy to stop at 350/330 or whether they'd like to go 400 - with a possible 50-100 later when the 'method' is sorted (e.g. heads/map/flow characteristics)

(Not a difficult choice in my case, as I like to 'dabble' almost continously )

In line with that - any idea of the cost differences between a 2.0 build and a 2.5 ?

Mark

 

One word - Headers!

Although your fuel won't help. You could easily test the effect of lower octane fuel with a bit of NF.

Andrew...

 

I got 403 BHP on Optimax without additives at Dastek (TD05/06-20G, headers, FMIC, water injection, STi heads/cams), running 1.2 bar at peak power. 434 BHP was at Star with 10% methanol/90% Optimax, no water injection. Both did about 395 lbft using 1.3 to 1.4 bar. The iON makes the same power again, maybe a little more, say 440-450 I reckon, using only Optimax. I think me running a larger turbo than I needed at lower boost at Knockhill is what contributed to it holding together.

I'm quite keen to only change the internals that need to be changed on the EJ257. It is a road car, and I don't particularly fancy another forged engine unless I have to.

I will give it a bit of respectful beans (ie hold 1.4 bar to the top) on the rotated mount GT30R for you You'll soon hear if it blows up, I don't keep much quiet If it doesn't I hope it makes a nice linear and healthy, driveable torque band.

 

Is this a good set-up to use?? http://www.crawfordperformance.com/e..._package.shtml
About £1500 IIRC

Looks like a good base to start, just bolt up all your bits from the 2.0l. Run it at around 1.2-1.3bar, and it should all fine shouldn't it?? (forged pistons etc..)

I like the idea of it if it really is that simple

 

here is my ignition map. my tuner thinks my engine does not like timing much. what do you guys think.
remember base timing is 10deg i think.

 

No, they don't like timing. The row 6 timing looks sensible enough. The row 1 & 2 are quite retarded though?

 

Agreed, but it is very difficult to know where to start the next phase, given the arguments about a forged engine as a daily runner, vs head gasket problems on 2.5L

 

I'm not sure whether this will help, but I think I'll give it a go anyhow - I'm going to try and pull some data together, with the assistance of SNers and 22b'ers (hopefully), to draw up a table of :

Engine Size, Config (i.e. heads/cams/internals), turbo, I/C, ECU, injectors, HP, Torque, RR'd or Estimated, 'extras' (e.g. fuel, water injection), mileage, use (daily/etc)

I'd like to do this in order to be able to give some kind of comparison, so it depends on genuine data - I'm sure it can be found in lots of threads, but I'll put a database together on my web site and publish when its done...

The idea should be that we can more easily judge 'average' results - e.g. I have to agree with JB - I've not really seen high HP, reliable 2.5s - seems to be a few making <350 hp, which can be reliably sourced from a 2000, but can a 2000 with standard internals give 100000 miles of 380 HP ?

Maybe its a 'holy grail', but I'll try and draw something up ....

Any suggestions on extra fields ?

Mark