Bobby Peru

On the straight on the second lap th Scoob is pulling away quite easily.

Bubba po

Why are we talking about Scoobs on this thread? **** off out of Other Marques, you bunch of attention-seekers!!

Paul_M

Yes power/weight is an issue when accelerating, but at any significant speed overcoming the aerodynamic drag will account for a large amount of power leaving the remaining power to accelerate the weight.

So if you have a 300BHP, 1500Kg car and a 200BHP 1000Kg car then in theory both will accelerate the same (assuming same grip, driver skill etc). But if both have the same aerodynamic drag then it may require say 75 BHP at 70MPH to overcome that drag. Leaving the 300BHP car with 225BHP, and the other with only 125BHP. So the "available" power/weight suddenly becomes much more favourable to the heavier but more powerful car.

That is why many bikes with massive power/weight can leave any car for dead up to 100+ MPH but as the speed increases the advantage becomes less until cars with big power and low drag can actually accelerate faster. Also why lightweight, small engined track cars can accelerate very quickly off the line but many can't pull past 125-140 MPH.

Now considering the Merc has lower drag coupled with much more power, the weight becomes even less of an issue than it is from standstill

alwong

If you look at the video it also shows you and a classic blitzing an STI (who can't drive very well) and an elise blitz both you and the scooby. Does anyone have a video of a straight run between a scoob and a CTR?

Paul_M

PS Yes my figures are plucked out of the air, few cars would need 75BHP to overcome their drag at 70MPH (even a 50BHP fiesta can just about reach 70!). But remember that the relationship of speed and drag is quadratic, so if it only requires 25BHP at 50MPH, that will become 100BHP at 100MPH!

So you can see why power/aerodynamic-drag quickly takes over power/weight at higher speeds.

Bubba po

Great idea... Perhaps you could use another thread, entitled " This morning I had a play with a Subaru Impreza"

Paul_M

PS The vids prove the point that driver ability plays a big role round the track, but in a straight line driving an automatic AMG barge there ain't the slightest bit of skill involved (well unless you get your pedals mixed up. Hmm which one is "go"... ).

craigdmcd

iTrader: (2)

The 2 drivers in the vids are pretty poor, barely touching a kerb, and as for the E55AMG debate, if it is a 211 model (latest) with the supercharger, then it blows the doors off most things with 4/5 doors, even the new M5 only just beats its horsepower, but can't see it matching the mid-range torque. The daddy is still the new CL/SL 65AMG (6.5 Liter V12 twin turbo)

Craig

alwong

Bubba, i think the thread has changed somewhat and i just wanted to reply to the video being a scooby driver!

I think the AMG would whip most.

Now we have a video show a CTR beating scoobies, well.......

john banks

Paul_M, agree totally about the drag, based on a few top speeds of reasonably slippery cars, I use about 75 BHP for 100 mph, and 125 BHP for 125 mph as yardsticks.

So at 125 mph, the Mercedes has about 230 BHP to accelerate its 1.6 tons, and the CTR has about 72 BHP to accelerate its 1.2 tons. PMSL at the result of that With more power, higher power to weight, a 60-100 time quicker than a P1, and the ability to pull up to 0.90 lateral g and massive brakes, why would anyone favour the CTR except through a slalom or for running costs, parking in a tight place, carrying lots of bread etc ?

alwong

Does anyone know the lap time for the CTR against scoobies/evo/amg's etc from top gear? Top Gear have tested alot of cars and surely their lap times would end this once and for all?

talizman

iTrader: (1)

LMAO

alwong

I think this shows what the general times are over the same circuit by one person. I found this off top gear website.

I would just like to point out the STI finished above the sl55 amg. he! he!

http://www.topgear.com/content/misc/TV/lap_times/

The Stig's power lap times


Ferrari F60 Enzo - 1.19.0
Porsche Carerra GT - 1.19.8
Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9
Ford GT - 1.21.9
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Murcielago - 1.23.7
Zonda - 1.23.8
Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
Noble - 1.25.0
Gallardo - 1.25.8
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8
Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2
TVR 350c - 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL - 1.28.0
Dodge Viper SRT-10 - 1.28.5
MG SV - 1.28.6
Porsche 911 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (very wet)
Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1.28.9
BMW Alpine Z8 - 1.29.0
Mercedes CL65 - 1.29
Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
Audi S4 - 1.30.9
Porsche 911 turbo - 1.31.0
Vauxhall VX 220 turbo - 1.31.3
Honda NSX Type R - 1.31.6
BMW M3 - 1.31.8
Nissan 350Z - 1.31.8
Mazda RX8 - 1.31.8
Ford Focus RS - 1.32.2
Lotus Esprit V8 - 1.32.5
Audi TT V6 - 1.32.7
MG ZT - 1.33
Noble - 1.33.1
Mercedes SL 55 AMG - 1.33.2
Volkswagen Golf R32 - 1.33.2
Volvo S60R - 1.35.0
Ferrari 575 - 1.35.2
Alfa 147 GTA - 1.35.6
Lotus Elise - 1.35.6
Aston Martin Vanquish - 1.36.2
Renault Clio v6 - 1.36.2
Honda Civic Type R - 1.36.5
Saab 95 hot aero - 1.37.9
Mazzer - 1.38.0
Bowler Wildcat - 1.39.4
Bentley Arnarge - 1.40.8
Overfinch - 1.44.0

alwong

oh yes and the STI finished 6 seconds quicker than the CTR.

comments most welcome.

Civic Type R

True although i did say "I know this was originally about some AMG horse**** story but i merely wish to educate a few peeps in here that the CTR is v.quick round a track "

Bubba po

The CTR finished a fraction of a second later than the Aston Martin Vanquish. That is the fact that we should all take to bed with us. Isn't that a tenfold price disparity?

alwong

once again please see comments above! The video doesn't lie but its down to 2 novice drivers showing there weekend talents. If you base it on a proper test like top gear, then its the CTR peeps who should be educated.

Civic Type R

Al - are you familiar with the concept of cool down laps ? The Sti & Elise would spit me out if they were driven well

alwong

Wouldn't this be down to the cornering of the vanquish??

I didn't make up the times. Maybe the stig was having an off day??

alwong

point taken. apologises!!!!

Civic Type R

Oh dear ......I suggest you watch the video again - I touch almost every kerb hence the tyre squel. The camera is mounted in the front window.....


****** edit - I assume you're referrring tp the 2 Scoob drivers ? *****

Bubba po

I'm bigging up the CTR.

Civic Type R

Comments as follows .........

265 bhp versus 197 bhp

4wd versus 2wd

...........the CTR is quick, the Sti is faster

Oh and by the way the Noble finished 5 secs quicker than the Sti ?

comments most welcome

Cal

IbizaFR

The CTR was in the wet and tonight did a 1:32.68 ??? please correct.

So the differences are not that huge.

I am a great believer in BHP, that is why it is used as a measurement.

BHP(wheel)/tonne/aerodynamics/gearing are what count for acceleration and top speed.

Taking cars with similar drag coefficients, and from rolling starts virtually all that matters is BHP @ the wheel per tonne and speed of gear change.

Handling and cornering is something that is very hard to measure and compare so I will kinda stay away from that. In terms of high speed corners 4WD doesnt matter much balance between over and under steer and traction to weight matter a lot more. 4WD is a big aid at low speed for powering out of corners. All cars use 4 wheels for corners except some hatches that use 3 .

When it comes to fast performance cars the biggest factor on the public roads is the driver not the car. I might test my acceleration against another car, off a roundabout for example, but when it catches up after the next, and overtakes me it is because I dont want to get into serious point to point racing with some guy I dont know. Road Rage, public roads, accidents (mine or his), insurance, police all these factors make it not worthwhile.

We here so many posts about I beat (something with more BHP), I got him in the twisties, he was pissed/shocked/impressed (I bet he told u), were probably situations like above, they played a bit realised that you couldnt match them and backed off.

This obviously only applies to a few but I see it on so many forums. We all like our own cars best (kinda), but if we could have any car, money no objective, it probably wouldnt be the car we are currently driving.

Part of this comes from the recent I beat an E55 in my CTR post on Scoobnet. It has 400+BHP it is 500Kilos heavier, but has massive tires etc to compensate plus more downforce from gravity.

It is kind of silly. Do the maths, you can pretty much calculate exactly what you can and cant beat on paper.

I run about 200BHP/tonne at flywheel, depending on temp and fuel.

I would not expect to out accelerate something running 250BHP/tonne the END.

Have a look around this site - some figures are not spot on as are the calculations but it can be fun.

If your modified you can enter your weight, transmission, BHP to get rough figures for qtr mile etc.

http://www.letstorquebhp.com/

braaaptish

Mercedes CL55 AMG; ahem! - I have to admit to ever so slightly buzzing the old timer in his motor to try and see if I could get a rise out of him :O . I did . . . :lmao: so; I approached him fairly quickly making sure my favourite part of the rev range was going to be available as I drew alongside him, I was fully expecting him to floor it as I did so - he speeded up ever so slightly as I drew alongside him, more than matching my approaching speed, so I planted my foot to the floor (this at 70/75 - normally enough to keep face with most motors . . . ) and with a loud V8 stylee 'BWAARRRRRR!!!' accompanied by an overloud 'SIZZZZZZZ!!!' I found I had apparently selected reverse at 85mph - he simply, erm, 'disappeared' into the distance leaving nothing but a sulphur smelling wake to signal he had actually been there in the first place . . .

Gorgeous noise on full song though - made my day to see someone giving a car like that the full berries . . . the only other time I had have seen a car move THAT fast was an RS500 coming in the opposite direction off a roundabout . . . :up:

craigdmcd

iTrader: (2)

Your Edit assumes correctly

alwong

I agree the noble is alot faster than the STI. But I didn't send a video of a STI keeping up with a noble??

MadMark

I used to own a CTR .....

I now own a 2003 WRX and with 260bhp it's faster than all the local CTR's .....

I have driven an EVO 6 - and it rocks .... but my Scoob is a better company car!

I had a light hearted play with a local neighbour in his SL55 AMG and in single squirt (straight line in 3rd gear - and between 50 and 90mph) he pulled out 10-15 car lengths ..... whilst sounding fab.
I congratulated him on his purchase and we had a laugh that his car is depreciating by the cost of a CTR each year .....

MadMark

Braaaptish! PMSL - Yes - beautifully put That's the experience ..... I need more power / money!

Dracoro

I see the sti is slower than a fwd hatch Behind the alfa GTA

Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1




BTW - does anyone know the conveniently 'missing' times for the caterham/westfield/radical etc.?