davyboy

I am certainly not saying that. What I will say is that is has at least equal perfomance to the bloated, overweight, underpowered new age WRX.

.....and it's more fun to drive, in fact I would go so far as to say its more fun than my P1 beating 951.

Dave

chrisp

That link aint working, so is it :

1) a classic WRX
2) a classic uk turbo
3) a new age WRX

and what MY ?

jonc

I beleive its a classic WRX, definitely not new age or bug eye.

chrisp

Is it a 1/4 mile video, if so what were the times ?

Midmotorsteve

scooby obviously wasn't running as it should it's a classic in the vid


or

had a **** driver

Pastor

I agree the plastics in the classic Impreza are poor not to say cheap looking.

Bits haven't started dropping off my Impreza though unlike the Clios I used.

The other failings of the Clio as I see them are the niggling electrical faults which I just haven't experienced with the Impreza. If they could somehow contrive to build a consistant product that was reliable and long lived I'd be very interested in owning one. Unfortunately that just isn't the case.

I remember seeing the video ( or one like it) the first time round and the driver of the Impreza got a very poor launch.

jonc

Bits have never fallen off my Clio either. I’ve never owned an Impreza, but just did a quick search and found that numerous WRXs suffered fundamental engine problems such as piston slap, fuel system problems causing major problems with cylinder 1, problems with heat shields and rattles at low RPM, excessive wear on inner part of the tyres, noisy waste gates and BOVs, leaky axels, EUC bugs, ABS problems, quick wearing anti roll bushes etc. I’m supprised you bought an Impreza. Should I tar all WRXs to have all these problems? No, just like me you take the good as well as the bad and is unlikely that *all* Imprezas will suffer these problems. I’m sure Clios will have a list just as impressive! Like all cars, find one that’s well looked after, you’ll have little problems with either car. As driving experiences both cars are good enough to far out weigh the cons of owning either car, though I imagine the cost of ownership to greater with the Impreza.

Performance wise they are not that far apart. Straight line the Imprezas will have the edge (though not in all instances, make all the excuses you want but the clip showed the WRX got whipped by a 172 and didn't have the power to make up the difference), on the road in the real world the difference will always be down to the driver.

Pastor

Older WRX's are japanese market cars made to run on 100RON fuel amongst other things. So largely irrelevant, look at UK market cars.

The video if it was the one I saw is some numpty who can't launch his car. So again irrelevant.

My experiences of Clio's involve bits dropping off, so does the majority of other owners if the surveys are to be believed.

The only runs I've had against the £10K Clio in my £4K Impreza+£300 mods have resulted in a sound thrashing for the Clio. I have no doubt that on a dry tight country lane the Clio would be faster. For a lot less money one is a practical, reliable, faster car than the other.

My real point here is that I've been considering another car for a while now and the Clio would be on the list, apart from its terrible record for reliability and build quality.

Instead I'm going the boring diesel route with an old mans 330D. When it's remapped I'll enjoy annoying 182 owners in "real world" conditions.

theotherphil

14.1 @ 97.5 from a modded 172 isn't as quick as a standard UK Impreza Turbo let alone a WRX/STi (classics of course). Performance Car, timed the Impreza Turbo 2000 with the 1/4 mile being covered in 13.72 seconds at 100.6 mph.

Source.

As you have said, a few relatively inexpensive mods can see the Impreza to over 300BHP with ease.

FrenchBoy

I used to own a Mk1 172, the missus currently owns a Mk1 172 that I still get to drive regularly.

I currently have an 03 WRX ppp with 260bhp and 271 lbs torque.

Build Quality/Interior

Slightly better in the Scoob but not as much as everyone thinks!! My scoob still has a few annoying squeeks and rattles that have refused to go away since new. As for for the travesty of a stereo - dont even get me started!

Basically there's not a lot between them. Now if you're comparing the 172 with a classic then there is no comparison. Lets be honest the classics can only be described as awful inside!

Reliability.

Had problems with the power steering on the 172 that were sorted under warranty thank god. As for the Scoob - well I've just had the gearbox rebuilt (under warranty) after 13k miles. I personally know 2 other owners on here with 03 models that have had/having gearbox problems.


Performance.

The scoob 'feels' in a completely different league to the 172. Particularly when overtaking, then the massive difference in torque makes all the difference. I can guarantee that I can get off the line considerably quicker than any standard 172/182 (we are talking about AWD and 2 secs difference to 60 after all). If its wet then you really have to drive the 172 on it's tiptoes, even moderately damp conditions feel like ice when pushing on.

Handling.

The old chestnut about the scoob's high mechanical grip but poor handling is very true. In the dry the Clio is more 'fun', more chuckable and more precise. Whether I'm going any faster is doubtfull but I prob enjoy it more as a pure driving experience.
The Scoob doesn't handle quite as bad as everyone makes out but feedback could be a lot better and the steering could be a bit sharper.

At the end of the day they are both great cars. The standard WRX is a bit underpowered but still a more effective overtaking machine than the standard 172.

I havent driven the 172 cup but I can fully appreciate that these would give a lot of WRX owners a bit of a scare. I had a bit of a drag with one at the weekend and even I didnt get past him as comfortably as I would have hoped (rolling off a roundabout on a dual carriage way with the clio 2 car lengths ahead when we both booted it).

Anyway I've rambled on for far too long and I'm beginning to bore myself now.
Just thought I'd add my opinions/experience.

merlin71

When i'm in need of a laugh at some poor thick as **** delusional girl's car owners - i pop into cliosport.net, which i guess you clio girls are from. Shame the driving tales has closed now - that was utterly hilarious, the amount of "omg i roxorz, just killed a WRX" etc posts were unbelievable.

What is it with you girls? You get a kick out of staying close to an unmodded classic or a WRX newage and suddenly you rush home, fire up the PC and with a bit of creativity suddenly start spouting crap?

I've watched Mitchy take truck loads of crap over the last 12 months or so - really seriously feeling for the guy as he gets ripped to shres, sworn at, asked to leave etc - FOR TELLING THE TRUTH. ROFL.

Funny that these "kills" never seem to involve anything more than 5 seconds of driving too. Funny that.

Bet you're not so quick to rush home when one (driven by someone who has an ounce of skill) whoops your girly ***? No, didn't think so! Or what about when one takes you to the cleaners on the motorway? No, again, no such stories despite the fact it is happening.

Again, i'll come back to the "stuck with" comment; those scoobs are more than likely edging away but of course you coudlnt possibly admit that so the phrase "stuck with" comes into play. Like i say - i can "stick with" cars with 100bhp more than me for 4 or 5 seconds too..... It takes a lot of BHP to litteraly smoke someone out on the roads.

BHP per tonne figures are another classic over on the Reno forums. Funny everyone there conveniently ignores the huge torque advantage the scoob has isn't it? Ah yes, lets keep hush about the old torque thing cos it dont look too good.

The Clio 1/4 vid is a joke. The guy should have smoked the clio in the first 2 seconds. He didnt, therefore he suffered. I've seen (again, funnily enough since Cliosport driving tales closed) that vid all over the place and the Clio driver is absolutely 100% convinced he had the faster car. LMFAO. Yeah, ok bud.

The modding thing does you clio girls no favours, you mod your cars, go up against unmodded scoobs and jubilation you stay close to one. Well, what would happen if that scoob owner threw a £25 boost controller on? Yep, £25 and you'll be nowhere near.

The 172/182 is an excellent handling car. They do however get unsettled at high speed, i wouldnt want to be doing 100mph plus in one with road undulations/potholes etc.

Any of you renault girls see the vid yozzer posted on cliosport when he got absolutely blew away by a P1? You probably have but conveniently forget.

chris n`nic

Good to see a nice `mature`post. Why don`t you call every one on cliosport queer or somthing else intelligent. Also, as to 14.1 sec not being anywhere near good enough to compete with a scoobie...take the 1 second (at least) 0-60 advantage away and you`ll see why it is possible that on a rolling start they aren`t massively different....

jonc

Merlin71, this forum is for discussions not insults. Grow up.

Cold Turkey

couldn't be bothered to read whole thread ... deja vu !

However, went on the Jonathan Palmer MotorSport experience on Saturday and drove, amongst other things:

Formula Palmer Audi single seater 500bhp/ton (awesome)
Palmer Jaguar JP1 400bhp/ton
Caterham 7 286bhp/ton (fun fun fun fun fun)

Most impressive car of the day ?

ClioCup 182 ... totally underestimated this car ! Admittedly it had been lightened (950kgs) and had the close ratio sequential gear box but boy did it surprise me ... much much better than I expected ... and sounded fantastic

Pastor

Not a surprise I think they are a great car, just not a great longterm ownership prospect.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

A lot of Subaru owners are living in a world of their own judging by this thread. The guy in the vid got a <2.0's 60 ft time, he didn't launch correctly?

Oh and a standard UK doing 13.72........

y0z2a

"Any of you renault girls see the vid yozzer posted on cliosport when he got absolutely blew away by a P1? You probably have but conveniently forget." still got the video if anyone wants to look... I don't think this comment is very fair to be honest, as I only posted it on P1OC to show what happened, not as a look what I killed.

but, very quickly my 10 pence for the discussion...

I have a 172 Cup, that is relatively modified (weight saving, handling, brakes) bar the block (work is underway)

My car has embarrased highly expensive cars in the past including; M3's, Evo's, Porsche's, Scoobys, TVR's and FFRS's to name a quick handful. My point is very simply, it all depends on the driver of a car to get the performance out of it, I consider myself a competant driver, but I am not prepared to take the risks that I see others take on the road. I am more than prepared to compete on track and before I started to suffer with fuelling problems, the car was running perfectly at Spa, and I was lapping at 4 secs per lap slower than a Carrera GT(consistent - timed from videos after the event, not at the circuit) This was as quick as some of the much more expensive kit that was there; the 172/182's suprised most people who were there as to how blooming quick they are.

I would be quite happy to take up any challenge on the track and to give it my all, win or lose provided that people acknowledge that the clio cup is a £13,000 stick of dynamite. (the 182, 182 cup, the 172 and the 172 cup are all very similar bar toys like aircon & leather) If the clio laps at 1 second slower around donnington that a WRX UK SPEC TYPE 46, with airbox, chip, anti lag etc. etc. (forget the spec, just making a point) then it is a fast car, if it is 3 seconds slower, it is still a fast car, however, if it is 2 seconds quicker, then what? is it because the clio is more suited to the track or that the track doesn't suit the scooby??? I pose the question:

Would you go onto a forum that you knew was openly hostile to other brands of cars and make the points that Chris n' Nic (and others) and I have made if you didn't have the confidence in what you have to back you up.

please don't take anything out of my comments other than the thoughts and questions that I have posed here, I don't want to get into a slanging match over "y0z2a's claims to embarrass m3 csl's" or so on... I am a petrol head, through and through, I don't care if someone has a race prepared 2cv or a standard E320, if they are interested in cars, I love to talk about them. I am at trackdays all over the place, if you see a blue clio with a black bonnet in your rear view mirror catching you, you might remember my comments here and come out for a few laps or a quick chat.

/y0z

Pastor

A good point well made y0z2a.

In the video I saw (the link here doesn't work) the Impreza driver gets a very poor launch, are we talking about the same thing?

As I've said all along the Clio is a quick car and astonishing value for money. However despite wanting one I won't be buying one because it doesn't represent a good prospect to actually own.

Brun

...............so 5 and a half years later - i own the said Clio from the first post. Sold the Scoob and bought a brand new Elise S which went after 18 months as i needed to release funds fr a house purchase.
I aquired the 172 from my Ma in July 2009 for £2.5k (02 plate). I now have a 41 mile commute to work so the Clio which had 41k when i got it, now has 57k
Reliability has been perfect - no squeeks, rattles and nothing has broken bar a side light bulb. As i tend to cruise along on the M1 at 85, i am getting 34mpg - dropping to 75 sees the mpg rise to 38, but feels way too slow.
The car still bothers me in the twisties, but i still miss the plantedness (new word?) of my Scoob, so i don't think i'll ever feel too great about it.
Love the HID's, love the suede/leather and since the addition of a K&n - the sound track ain't bad esp on cam
What's next - **** me, i want another Scoob









Bollox - can't afford it

Ps - as this is a completely random toppage of and old thread i must explain that quitting smoking is making me spend a shed load of my spare time on SN

paulwrxboro

still a good read i like the clios and would buy one if i did track days aswell
PS 2.5k = bargain

Brun

The 2.5k was the offer when my parents were gonna trade it in so naturally they had to let me have it for that - yay for that stroke of luck

StickyMicky

Reminds me of the time my mate bought a new 172, raced a few import classic wrx`s and then started telling everybody he could slay scoobies

Of course he was racing the low powered early imports, but he did not know any better.

All day at work he was pestering me for a race, i really was not arsed at all as i had dabbled with the 172`s before and was not impressed.

Anyway the clown started telling everybody in the factory i was scared, so i bit and told him we would have a play on the way home after late shift, he finished 10 mins before me as he was in a different department.

I came out the factory to see my mate, parked up next to the scooby, his foglights on and revving his engine

I utterly destroyed him, side by side from a roundabout, it was not even worth the petrol, and that should have been his strongest point! so as wel pulled up to a set of traffic lights, me actually howling at him, i ask if he fancied a chance from the green light?

Full blown drag start just utterly left him standing, it was hilarious, he got a right old ripping at work the next day

Seriously though, them 172`s, had a play recently with the zs180 and i was still not impressed with them, seamed pretty sluggish at NSL+

WRX_Dazza

just like milkfloats

StickyMicky

How do them 192`s fair into the equation, i assume they are a bit heavier?

Brun

Never tried it on with a 197. The Clio is fairly rapid from a rolling start upto around 90. It's enough to make a lot of cars think twice. Problem is that it doesn't feel as quick as it is = mostly boring