AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

.........thanks for that mate,

i've spoken to a family friend today who has worked in insurance for years an i explained the whole situation and that elephant will insure a that kinda price, an he's reckons i should go for it, he said thousands of people get insured this way, an its not really breaking any rule what so ever.

he said that £1200-1300 is a blinding price, make sure that my dads gana be the registered owner of the car(not a problem)...and apart from that go ahead an do it, if there were grey area's or anything he's the sort of guy that would be first to say to me not to do it...

Tentenths

Sorry, what you have been told is simply incorrect!

Yes, thousands of people do what you're proposing but that doesn't mean it's right does it? Yes, some get away with it - but take it from me that others come terribly unstuck when they come to try and claim.

As for "... not breaking any rule whatsoever..." words fail me! Frankly, I'm amazed that anyone in the insurance industry would tell you this - it is "non-disclosure of a material fact". As such it could invalidate your policy, which would then mean that you were driving illegally i.e. without insurance.

How do I know this? I've been in the insurance industry for 20+ years. If you're still not convinced by what I and others on this thread have already said I'd suggest that you ring any insurance company (or a lawyer) and ask them to explain the implications of deliberate "non disclosure" on an insurance policy.

Oh, and I'd also recommend that you get your Dad to read this thread

AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

ok, if someone has a policy on a car and there are 2 drivers on it, both drivers use the car 50/50, who is the main driver?............your going to say the person who is the registered owner of the car, right?

my friend in insurance says that even if i was driving the car to work one day and have an accident, therefore making a claim, its still not a problem, because there's nothing to say that i was only using the car to go to work as a one off.
insurance companies don't need to know and don't ask to know the daily every days uses of the car and who is driving it.

i can't be lying aboput something their not even asking, if this insurance policy was a complete "scam" then why would elephant give me the quote??? its not a fluke that they've given me the quote, and i'm just taking advantage of a computer glitch.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

My 2p's worth
Alot of people on here (TDT. Kev Turbo and Tentenths) have quite politely and correctly pointed out, that if you insure a car which is in your name but you are not the main driver of that car, ie you dont have the policy in your name, then this could lead to fraud, especially if you have an accident in the car. Considering that fraud has a 10 year prison sentence, id personally pay out of my own pocket for the insurance, or bide your time and get something less powerful (ie a uk car which you will be able to insure for less cash) and work your way up. Stating any sort of falsehood upon a legal document (ie car insurance) will end you up in deep s***, and being the secondary driver is stating the above......

Tony

TDT

And *possibly* committing insurance fraud in the process!

JamesPRJones

I hope you don't live near me. I wouldn't want to be involved in an accident with you.

Note to self - Check my policy guards against uninsured/falsely insured drivers.

starstruck

You have been told, by very experienced motorists, that what you are planning is illegal. You are going to state that you are the MAIN driver of the car. This is a lie, one for which you could end up in deep ****e. Personally i don't care if you do. What I care about is the poor guy you take out.
If you can't afford to insure the car in your name then you can't afford the car, simple really.

But you seem to know more than anyone else, so carry on and obtain insurance on false information.

Tentenths

I'm sorry, but I'm amazed you're still not convinced. You were obviously doubtful of the position otherwise you wouldn't have raised the question in the first place. But I'll make one final effort.

I assume you live at home with parents? (if not, you've shot yourself in the foot straight away). OK, let's say you're driving and you have a prang. Insurer is quite within rights to check who is the main driver - and if they're suspicious (which they probably will be with a young driver in a high group car insured in a parent's name) they could easily ask neighbours, work colleagues etc.

Insurance companies DO need to know who the main driver is - because that's how they assess the risk/rate to charge. Elephant (part of the Admiral group) are no different to any other insurer when it comes to non-disclosure. If you deliberately withold any material information from them you can invalidate your cover - this applies whether or not they ask a specific question. Just so you're in no doubt here's an extract from their website:-

"Disclosing material facts
Any material information that you provide us must be true and complete to the best of your knowledge and belief as it will be the basis of the contract between the subscribing insurers’ and yourself.

It is an offence under the Road Traffic Act to make a false statement or withhold any material information to gain the issue of a Motor Insurance Certificate.

If at ANY time we find that the details you have given us are inaccurate or incomplete then this could affect the validity of your insurance cover with us. You run the risk that we may cancel your policy (and we could do this effective from the start date of your policy) or refuse to pay all or part of any claim you make.

If you have any doubts as to whether any information is material or not, please call us on 0870 013 1072 (national rate) Mon - Fri: 8am - 10pm; Sat: 9am - 5pm; Sun: 10am - 4pm.

Important Notice:

We would advise you that we exchange information with other insurers’ through various databases to help us check information provided and also to prevent fraudulent claims. We would also advise you that all insurers supply details of motor insurance policies to a database to which the Police and other insurers have access. This helps detect people who break the law by not taking out insurance and insurers to pursue claims following accidents.

Insurers pass information to the Claims and Underwriting Exchange Register, run by the Insurance Databases Services Ltd (IDS Ltd) and the Motor Insurance Anti-Fraud and Theft Register, run by the Association of British Insurers (ABI). The aim is to help us to check the information provided and also to prevent fraudulent claims. When we deal with your request for insurance, we may search these registers. Under the conditions of your policy, you must tell us about the incident (such as an accident or theft) which may or may not give rise to a claim. When you tell us about an incident, we will pass information relating to it to the registers.

Your insurance cover details will be added to the Motor Insurance Database, run by the Motor Insurers’ Information Centre (MIIC). This has been set up to help identify uninsured drivers and may be searched by the Police to help confirm who is insured to drive. If there is an accident, the Database may be used by insurers, MIIC and the Motor Insurers’ Bureau to identify relevant policy information. You can ask us for more information about this.

You should show this notice to anyone insured to drive the car covered under the policy."



Thus you not only risk invalidating your insurance cover - making a false statements or WITHOLDING MATERIAL INFORMATION is a specific offence under the Road Traffic Act i.e. so you would also be breaking the law and therefore liable to prosecution.

Finally, worst case scenario. You kill, or seriously injure someone. The insurer voids the policy on the basis of non disclosure - guess who becomes personally liable for the damages?! Oh, and you'll almost certainly get kicked out of the police too.

Here endeth the lesson (for the last time)

mitch p1

i just read the thread from start to finish and i think your out of your mind you cant just do that and go by what your mates said!!

do you really think your mates are gonna be worried when your stood up in court explaining how you twisted the law because they said its ok!

im 20yrs old and gonna get a p1 i made sure that when i gave my insurance details over i was the main driver and the car was in my name. i have 3yrs ncb so insurance isnt to bad! your better off getting some ncb it makes the world of differance.

just read the thread from start to finish and your bound to see sence. if you go for it then you could mess up your hole life just coz you cant wait to get a few no clames.

AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

my dad will be the registered owner of the car...

ten tenth,thanks for the advice,one more question thou please,

what are the insurance companies recomended uses of a car by someone who is "just" a named driver on a policy?

i think ur missing my point that , would it be wrong of me to get this policy even if my dad used the car 7 days a week as his main car, and i decided to use it maybe 2-3 times to when he doesn't need it?

if we both share the car(as many people do) why is it wrong for me as a young person to be on the policy?

it NOT AS IF my dad will never be using the car and i'm gana be the only person that ever uses it.

AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

read the whole sentence please

Tentenths

You think I'M missing the point!!!???

Throughout your previous posts you've been talking about you being the main driver on the policy e.g. "...I will be the main user of the car..." but that you're then intending to "forget" to mention this (very material) fact to the insurers.

Yet, all of a sudden, according to your last post your Dad will be the main driver!!!! If he is the main driver and you are a named driver using the car for the minority of the time, of course there won't be a problem! It also means that the whole of this thread has been totally pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time!!

Good luck with the police entrance exam - on the strength of this thread you're going to need it!!

AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

look mate i'm not trying to offend you , obviously i've take aboard your(and everyone else's) advice.i think i'l call elephant and explain the situation, an see what they advice me and go from there.

i think the thread should stop here because the whole conversation is just repeating its self.

also making asumptions about my qualities to join the police force are not really needed, from some one that does'nt personally know me.


cheers

TDT

We've offered you our advice. The decision you make is yours. I just hope you makes the right one.

If you make the wrong one, I hope I don't "bump" in to you when in my car or when I'm at work *ahem*

Petem95

Just go for it, 1300quid sounds like a great price (even if thats only 10months like Elephant usually quote for).

I know loads of people who insure their cars in parents names, and I know one whos claimed - and no problems at all. As has been stated, they cant prove your dad isnt the main user, so what grounds could they refuse a payout?

Tentenths

Some double standards here! Only 4 days ago you said "...Sounds very risky to me! You can get blacklisted if they find out you've lied to them..." This too was in connection with "forgetting" to provide insurance companies with all the facts! See http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...14#post3849114

As to the grounds for refusing to pay, look thru' all the references to non-disclosure elsewhere on this thread.

mart360

Given the fact that he has blatently stated what he intends to do,

let him do it...

i,d give his potential career. 30 days if anything goes wrong

its amazing ... drivers who have been down this route, offer advice on what

a) they know to be correct.

b) has come from hard earned experiance

and he still thinks he can find a loophole...

kerching.. one born every minute..


Mart

LOL

TDT

And he still ignores advice from:

a) Someone who has been in the insurance industry since Gods dog was born (no offence meant Ten )
b) The Old Bill

There's one born every minute

Tentenths

None taken!

Dogus

Do not underestimate the powers of insurance companies. They have almost limitless resources at their disposal to dig into insurance claims.

Remember... your insurance is NOT just to cover bent wings and stolen vehicles.

Heaven forbid you should knock someone down, but if it happened, medical care could run to 10s/100s of thousands of pounds. If they can prove you have falsified your details you could be paying for the rest of your life.

If you are driving the car most of the time then YOU ARE the main driver and should tell them this from the start. If you then can't afford the premium then look at a cheaper car and get those NCBs built up.

I hope you get the Scooby and enjoy it but I think we would all applaud you more if you came on here and said you'd deffered the turbo for a couple of years for something cheaper to insure or that you have now told the insurers that you are the main driver.


REMEMBER... you did ask for our opinions

Tentenths

You can lead a horse to water...............

JamesPRJones

The building up of NCB is only one reason to defer buying a powerful car from the start. You also need to build up your experience of driving powerful cars. Too many people think they can pass their test and jump straight into the most powerful car they can afford, and become a good driver. Most of the time it ends in tears.

AsianGunner, I know you are 21 and may have passed your test 4 years ago, but the fact you have no NCB and are needing to get insured on your dad's insurance suggests you haven't been driving regularly.

My brother bought a new mk2 Escort RS turbo for £13k when he was 20. He got it insured under my mum's insurance and got a stage 1 chip for it. He didn't tell the insurance the about the chip or the fact he was the main driver. Someone carjacked him and wrote the car off within a year of him getting it. The insurance only paid out half the money (£6.5k) if I remember correctly. This was about 16 years ago, so you can imagine how insurance companies have tightened up today. I think he was lucky.

If this doesn't convince you then nothing will. The comment from Dogus about you being liable for £100,000's if you cause injury to someone would be more than enough to $hit anyone up. Wait a year or 2, get yourself a Golf Gti and drive carefully.

James
P.S.
I went Mini's (5 years - while studying), XR2 (1 year), 205 Gti 1.9 (4 years), Rover 220 coupe turbo (4 years), Scoob (last 3 years). Currently 17 years accident free driving (touchwood) and I don't drive slowly.

Petem95

Good memory! However theres a big difference, sending a photocopied old clean license to avoid showing your points (which they can check up on anyway) is pretty risky, and you can be proven to have lied, however they cant prove his dad isnt the main user of the car, so in this case I dont see much of problem.

JamesPRJones

They can ask neighbours, work collegues etc... They have a lot of contacts. The bigger the payout required the more they'll dig to make sure they don't have to.

Tentenths

So what you're saying is that if you lead an insurer to believe that someone else is the main driver when it is actually you, that's not lying?

It's also illegal under the terms of the Road Traffic Act.

In any event insurers can - and do - quite easily establish who the main driver of a vehicle is - as I said in Post 38 on this thread. The potentially very grave implications of such non-disclosure are also explained in the same posting.

Tentenths

I'd also suggest reading JamesPRJones' posting (No. 52) about someone he knows who thought he'd do the same thing - and how he subsequently came unstuck. He was actually lucky, in that the insurer met part of the claim. There are many cases where non-disclosure has resulted in the insurer voiding the policy - meaning that the claim would be declined.

Just imagine what would happen in the event of an accident that left another party permanently disabled. No insurance would mean that you would personally be liable for any personal injury settlement awarded by the courts, which can easliy run into 10s/100s of thousands pounds.

Don't forget that Asiangunner is also considering a career in the police - surely the very last person who should consider doing something like this?

JamesPRJones

If they were to make a claim, an invalidated insurance policy obviously means they are driving without properly insuring their vehicle, which means 6-8 points on your licence and a hefty fine. Lets hope they don't have too many points on the licence at the time or get found guilty of an additional offence, because they won't be driving for several years. They'll certainly be moaning about the cost to insure a Scooby after a lengthy ban.

Tentenths

If they could find an insurer prepared to insure them!!!

JamesPRJones

There'll always be one. That'll be £4000 please, LOL.

SiDHEaD

Can i throw something out there to the guys in the know.

What happens if he was named driver on 2 cars which were both not registered to him???