Type-R diff control + driving courses
come on first customer cash waiting (it will be under a fiver won't it Simon 
13 October 2004, 11:03 PM
#34
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Simon, this might be an odd question, but is there any need for a driving course with it? I mean, it will be doing some pretty damn important stuff. What do you intend to offer in terms of warranty and so on?
ta,
Matt
ta,
Matt
14 October 2004, 04:10 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by ScoobySport (SdB)
Hi Guys
measuring how the diff operates on an advanced active diff system is pretty much impossible.
To give you an idea, the system we are developing has approximately 10,000 values for a single map, which represents around 145 trillion possible values based on all the available inputs.
It's also true that the complexity of the mapping is almost impossible to describe and can only really be fully understood by the person who mapped it. If you have the map infront of you, you can get pretty close if you know what you're doing, but you'll never be able to pick on the specific bits of magic that have been put in there by the genius that mapped it.
The WR1 DCCD-A system is very simple by comparison. It uses very few inputs and is able to be described in the 3D graphical form that many have seen.
I can't wait until we can launch the scoobysport active diff ecu as I think many will be blown away by the difference in the handling.. The challenge of the actual mapping and testing, etc is even more than I imagined, but it's a lot of fun
Cheers
Simon
measuring how the diff operates on an advanced active diff system is pretty much impossible.
To give you an idea, the system we are developing has approximately 10,000 values for a single map, which represents around 145 trillion possible values based on all the available inputs.
It's also true that the complexity of the mapping is almost impossible to describe and can only really be fully understood by the person who mapped it. If you have the map infront of you, you can get pretty close if you know what you're doing, but you'll never be able to pick on the specific bits of magic that have been put in there by the genius that mapped it.
The WR1 DCCD-A system is very simple by comparison. It uses very few inputs and is able to be described in the 3D graphical form that many have seen.
I can't wait until we can launch the scoobysport active diff ecu as I think many will be blown away by the difference in the handling.. The challenge of the actual mapping and testing, etc is even more than I imagined, but it's a lot of fun
Cheers
Simon
How would I go about fitting this kit to my RB5 and what parts are needed? I've been half tempted to sell my RB5 and buy a Type R /RA, but I like my RB5 sooooo much.
I have 2 mates with typr R gearbox hanging around, so would I need to aquire one of these, or can it be fitted to my RB5 gearbox?
Thanks Phill
15 October 2004, 11:45 AM
#37
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phill,
you dont need a different gearbox,
what you need is a transfer case containing a dccd centre diff and 1:1 drop gears. Your RB5 has a 3.54 rear final drive ratio.
The easiest way for this system to work on your car is to buy a P1 plated rear diff (makes the centre diff more effective at altering the handling) and you will also need a 3.9 crown wheel and pinion to fit an R160 rear diff, this is because due to the drop gears with the dccd transfer case being 1:1 your front and rear final drive ratios will now be mismatched will which blow up your centre diff in no time. Fitting the 3.9 crown wheel and pinion to your rear diff makes them the same again. These are only available in sport models, so get ringing round breakers yard if you intend to go this way.
You don't have to get a P1 plated rear diff, but it makes the adjustability of the centre lock up all the more effective.
you dont need a different gearbox,
what you need is a transfer case containing a dccd centre diff and 1:1 drop gears. Your RB5 has a 3.54 rear final drive ratio.
The easiest way for this system to work on your car is to buy a P1 plated rear diff (makes the centre diff more effective at altering the handling) and you will also need a 3.9 crown wheel and pinion to fit an R160 rear diff, this is because due to the drop gears with the dccd transfer case being 1:1 your front and rear final drive ratios will now be mismatched will which blow up your centre diff in no time. Fitting the 3.9 crown wheel and pinion to your rear diff makes them the same again. These are only available in sport models, so get ringing round breakers yard if you intend to go this way.
You don't have to get a P1 plated rear diff, but it makes the adjustability of the centre lock up all the more effective.
Last edited by Adam M; 15 October 2004 at 11:51 AM.
16 October 2004, 06:36 PM
#38
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Andy,
It would be nice to see exactly what the A-DCCD gets up to (just to see the change of the lights on the dash
) but i fear it would possably scare drivers as it does something like 40 calculations per second 
and if it adjusts anywhere near 10 per second, that would be scary too
I think the only way to even get close to what the A-DCCD does is get the car on a track, run the corners then "try" to simulate it the next time round (i fear lots of trial and error here
)
Tony
It would be nice to see exactly what the A-DCCD gets up to (just to see the change of the lights on the dash
) but i fear it would possably scare drivers as it does something like 40 calculations per second and if it adjusts anywhere near 10 per second, that would be scary too I think the only way to even get close to what the A-DCCD does is get the car on a track, run the corners then "try" to simulate it the next time round (i fear lots of trial and error here
)Tony
19 October 2004, 08:39 PM
#42
Thats a milliard you muppet, or in the USA a Billion.
Number of zeros U.S. & scientific community Other countries
3 thousand thousand
6 million million
9 billion 1000 million (1 milliard)
12 trillion billion
15 quadrillion 1000 billion
18 quintillion trillion
21 sextillion 1000 trillion
24 septillion quadrillion
27 octillion 1000 quadrillion
30 nonillion quintillion
33 decillion 1000 quintillion
36 undecillion sextillion
39 duodecillion 1000 sextillion
42 tredecillion septillion
45 quattuordecillion 1000 septillion
48 quindecillion octillion
51 sexdecillion 1000 octillion
54 septendecillion nonillion
57 octodecillion 1000 nonillion
60 novemdecillion decillion
63 vigintillion 1000 decillion
66 - 120 undecillion - vigintillion
303 centillion
600 centillion
Bloody Yanks.
Number of zeros U.S. & scientific community Other countries
3 thousand thousand
6 million million
9 billion 1000 million (1 milliard)
12 trillion billion
15 quadrillion 1000 billion
18 quintillion trillion
21 sextillion 1000 trillion
24 septillion quadrillion
27 octillion 1000 quadrillion
30 nonillion quintillion
33 decillion 1000 quintillion
36 undecillion sextillion
39 duodecillion 1000 sextillion
42 tredecillion septillion
45 quattuordecillion 1000 septillion
48 quindecillion octillion
51 sexdecillion 1000 octillion
54 septendecillion nonillion
57 octodecillion 1000 nonillion
60 novemdecillion decillion
63 vigintillion 1000 decillion
66 - 120 undecillion - vigintillion
303 centillion
600 centillion
Bloody Yanks.
19 October 2004, 10:28 PM
#43
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beg your perdon, I really was being an even bigger muppet than you suggest..
by trillion I ACTUALLY meant 1,000,000,000,000
which it appears is called a "trillion billion"??
God knows.. I've lost myself now..
but anyway.. there are over 145,000,000,000,000 combinations!!!
by trillion I ACTUALLY meant 1,000,000,000,000
which it appears is called a "trillion billion"??
God knows.. I've lost myself now..
but anyway.. there are over 145,000,000,000,000 combinations!!!
20 October 2004, 06:17 PM
#44
No simon, they are two columns, one is the USA version, one is the rest of the world. What you have is 145 billion (UK speak) or 145 trillion (USA Speak) combos.
Thats a bit crap, surely you could squeeze a few more in there.
20 October 2004, 07:58 PM
#45
Well I didn't know that!! Genuinely I always thought a UK billion was a thousand million! Thank god I don't need to count that high when it comes to my bank balance!
Right..
just for you, we've spent the whole day on it and there are 145,000,000,000,004 combinations..
happy now?
Right..
just for you, we've spent the whole day on it and there are 145,000,000,000,004 combinations..
happy now?
20 October 2004, 08:40 PM
#46
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I hope you've tested them all individually, I couldn't possibly fit a product to my car that hasn't been properly checked under all conditions...
30 October 2004, 01:12 PM
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I have a question.
When the DCCD is not free, does it actually perform as an LSD?
What I mean is does the torque split actually vary in a fixed setting depending on traction?
Obviously, the extra friction on the centre diff that is needed to alter the torque will have a similar effect, but if the traction losses overcome this will the diff lock further to prevent the torque being sent to the spinning wheels?
The reason I ask is that, in the wet, even on the first green, the traction and stability gains are noticeable. It certainly feels like its operating like an LSD rather than a free diff with a slightly higher front bias, but I'm not confident enough in my mechanical understandings to pronounce this as the gospel truth I guess I could work it out for myself, but the chances of proving it one way or the other on the way to the hedge is a risky strategy.
In johnfelsteads translation it suggests that the torque split varies, but this doesn't necessarily mean its acting like an LSD (it could just mean that it will send more torque to the rear if the rear spins as an open diff will),but if it does how does the diff work?
Apologies if I'm being stupid/ missing something obvious, and feel free to point out my retardedness if I am
When the DCCD is not free, does it actually perform as an LSD?
What I mean is does the torque split actually vary in a fixed setting depending on traction?
Obviously, the extra friction on the centre diff that is needed to alter the torque will have a similar effect, but if the traction losses overcome this will the diff lock further to prevent the torque being sent to the spinning wheels?
The reason I ask is that, in the wet, even on the first green, the traction and stability gains are noticeable. It certainly feels like its operating like an LSD rather than a free diff with a slightly higher front bias, but I'm not confident enough in my mechanical understandings to pronounce this as the gospel truth
I guess I could work it out for myself, but the chances of proving it one way or the other on the way to the hedge is a risky strategy.In johnfelsteads translation it suggests that the torque split varies, but this doesn't necessarily mean its acting like an LSD (it could just mean that it will send more torque to the rear if the rear spins as an open diff will),but if it does how does the diff work?
Apologies if I'm being stupid/ missing something obvious, and feel free to point out my retardedness if I am
30 October 2004, 08:08 PM
#54
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it could just mean that it will send more torque to the rear if the rear spins as an open diff will
If however you lock the diff (and you assume it is firmly 100% locked), the torque will be split front/rear to the split of resistance front and rear... eg : if the rears are on ice and the fronts on sticky tarmac, the fronts will receive almost 100% of the torque, and the rears almost zero.
The magic with the DCCD is that when you partially close it, you both reduce the relative torque difference in the centre diff, and also increase the amount the torque split CAN change depending on the conditions. This is part of the complexity of 145,000,000,005 combinations
- john, we've added one more for you Cheers
Simon
30 October 2004, 08:31 PM
#55
pleasure. Thanks Simon, i feel honored.
It may help to look at the design of the diff unit, you can see how there are two systems in play, one is the plated LSD, the other is the 2:1 torque split generating input/output gears. When the clamping force increases this efectively moves the leverage point of the f/r output flanges that drive the front/rear diffs via the ouput shafts, so as you increase the locking ability of the diff, at the same time you are altering torque split. It's a very clever compact system.
It may help to look at the design of the diff unit, you can see how there are two systems in play, one is the plated LSD, the other is the 2:1 torque split generating input/output gears. When the clamping force increases this efectively moves the leverage point of the f/r output flanges that drive the front/rear diffs via the ouput shafts, so as you increase the locking ability of the diff, at the same time you are altering torque split. It's a very clever compact system.
31 October 2004, 09:48 PM
#57
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No problem with active control unit. Here in Czech republic is a man who produce active control differential units for about 700 Euro. These units are used in world rally championship in group N - production cars (Nial MC Shea - use this unit).
You have pressure, rpms maps with leftfoot an handbrake override. You have also 2 additional inputs for (gsenzor, brake pressure etc. .....)
Im not very familiar with developing the maps, i have only difflock under braking and difflock with gas pedal more than 50%. In the dry tarmac i use first position, on the wet 3-4 position. Gravel and snow - full lock.
You have pressure, rpms maps with leftfoot an handbrake override. You have also 2 additional inputs for (gsenzor, brake pressure etc. .....)
Im not very familiar with developing the maps, i have only difflock under braking and difflock with gas pedal more than 50%. In the dry tarmac i use first position, on the wet 3-4 position. Gravel and snow - full lock.
01 November 2004, 04:26 PM
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Last edited by AndyC_772; 02 November 2004 at 09:34 AM.
04 November 2004, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh L
Tried all the settings and I'm still a crap driver, can I get that sorted under warranty?
The colour suits u thou Just give me a go & I will show u how (not) to do it