To Prodrive or not to Prodrive?
20 July 2000, 02:13 PM
#31
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Hi,
You might want to take a look at the Digit-Power (Swiss) upgrade. This is a real EVO-killer chip.
I know for a fact that a Subaru equiped with this chip (405Nm@3200rpm!!! I saw the dyno-results) actually outruns Porsche GT3, 964RS and the likes on the steep uphill parts of the Nurburgring and round the short Hockenheimring. We've got a little group of racing-enthousiasts and one of them has such a Sub, and to our surprise he can catch the GT3 (also a member of this group) on acceleration (on short circuits)!
Only one thing: no garantuee!
Gr.
Patrick
You might want to take a look at the Digit-Power (Swiss) upgrade. This is a real EVO-killer chip.
I know for a fact that a Subaru equiped with this chip (405Nm@3200rpm!!! I saw the dyno-results) actually outruns Porsche GT3, 964RS and the likes on the steep uphill parts of the Nurburgring and round the short Hockenheimring. We've got a little group of racing-enthousiasts and one of them has such a Sub, and to our surprise he can catch the GT3 (also a member of this group) on acceleration (on short circuits)!
Only one thing: no garantuee!
Gr.
Patrick
20 July 2000, 07:00 PM
#33
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OK, so all of you that say a ppp will keep up with a STI are talking rubbish. I have owned both, my old car (the wife now drives)was absoluteley superb my99/00 ppp, but since getting the Type R all i can say is the ppp is definately the underdog.
Perhaps its just the Type R, but it is a totally differant animal all together, loads more torque and drives like its on rails, none of the wallowiness.
Sorry guys, if you can, and you don`t do too many motorway miles, all i recommend is a Type R
Paul
Perhaps its just the Type R, but it is a totally differant animal all together, loads more torque and drives like its on rails, none of the wallowiness.
Sorry guys, if you can, and you don`t do too many motorway miles, all i recommend is a Type R
Paul
20 July 2000, 10:38 PM
#35
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Hi,
Hello, hello??? Are you not paying enough attention there? PPP has absolutely not the same amount of torque as the P1!!! Maybe engine-torque, but as I just explained the gear-ratios are as important on torque-on-the-wheels as the engine-torque itself. And the P1 has much, much shorter gears and will be much, much faster. Forget the engine-torque use BHP and weight to compare cars!
As for a comparison PPP vs. STi. The STi is much faster but only on larger tracks and top speed.
As for a comparison with a Integra-R, the Integra-R is the far superior machine but more difficult to drive.
This is how I perceive it from my weekly rounds on the Nurburgring.
Gr.
Patrick
Hello, hello??? Are you not paying enough attention there? PPP has absolutely not the same amount of torque as the P1!!! Maybe engine-torque, but as I just explained the gear-ratios are as important on torque-on-the-wheels as the engine-torque itself. And the P1 has much, much shorter gears and will be much, much faster. Forget the engine-torque use BHP and weight to compare cars!
As for a comparison PPP vs. STi. The STi is much faster but only on larger tracks and top speed.
As for a comparison with a Integra-R, the Integra-R is the far superior machine but more difficult to drive.
This is how I perceive it from my weekly rounds on the Nurburgring.
Gr.
Patrick
20 July 2000, 11:14 PM
#36
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Having never driven a PPP equipped car, I'm probably not qualified to comment but my impression from lots of posts and other web info is that the Dastek Unichip is the best value performance upgrade.
Reasons:
1. Cheap - I think it costs about £600 all in.
2. Reliable - it retains the original ECU and thus all the safety mechanisms which might prevent a blown engine.
3. Performance - increase of about 30-40 bhp as well as 20-30 lb ft of torque (on UK cars).
4. Economy - apparently economy is not affected and may even improve.
5. The chip can be removed prior to sale.
The above is unfortunately not based on personal experience. I intend to have the chip fitted in the future once my warranty expires.
D.
Reasons:
1. Cheap - I think it costs about £600 all in.
2. Reliable - it retains the original ECU and thus all the safety mechanisms which might prevent a blown engine.
3. Performance - increase of about 30-40 bhp as well as 20-30 lb ft of torque (on UK cars).
4. Economy - apparently economy is not affected and may even improve.
5. The chip can be removed prior to sale.
The above is unfortunately not based on personal experience. I intend to have the chip fitted in the future once my warranty expires.
D.
21 July 2000, 09:16 AM
#37
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Gareth is right!!! Absolutely right!
As for the chip mentioned two postings above. Is this a so called piggy-back chip (you say the original chip is retained). Then iy bypasses all the safety-constructions built-into the standard chip. Piggy-back are in principle an inferior kind of chip. To difficult for me to explain in English. Just believe me.
As for the chip mentioned two postings above. Is this a so called piggy-back chip (you say the original chip is retained). Then iy bypasses all the safety-constructions built-into the standard chip. Piggy-back are in principle an inferior kind of chip. To difficult for me to explain in English. Just believe me.
21 July 2000, 12:31 PM
#38
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Andy,
Sorry to go against the mood of this thread, but I'm seriously thinking of giving up my MY99 before it kills me or someone else. Unless you're getting a lot of track use I can't believe you need better performance than the standard car. If you've got £2K to spare get a new mountain bike instead!
Cheers,
Gareth
Sorry to go against the mood of this thread, but I'm seriously thinking of giving up my MY99 before it kills me or someone else. Unless you're getting a lot of track use I can't believe you need better performance than the standard car. If you've got £2K to spare get a new mountain bike instead!
Cheers,
Gareth
21 July 2000, 03:05 PM
#39
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AndyK,
Have the PPP and Driver Enhancement Pack fitted to mine (MY 00) from new.
It is very quick - much quicker than standard car - as I have found on several occasions.
More than that, so far as the PPP is concerned, although it is apparently designed to add more mid range punch, it also adds a lot of power and torque at low revs. If you look at the Dyno testing page (http://dyno.scoobynet.co.uk/), you will find, on comparison with an STi V(see
Have the PPP and Driver Enhancement Pack fitted to mine (MY 00) from new.
It is very quick - much quicker than standard car - as I have found on several occasions.
More than that, so far as the PPP is concerned, although it is apparently designed to add more mid range punch, it also adds a lot of power and torque at low revs. If you look at the Dyno testing page (http://dyno.scoobynet.co.uk/), you will find, on comparison with an STi V(see
21 July 2000, 11:47 PM
#41
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TheMrProDrive
What you say about the Unichip is not true. It may be a piggy-back chip but it does retain the original chip's safety guards such as knock sensing and rev limiting. It is far more sophisticated than other piggy-back chips such as Superchip (which fools the native ECU about boost levels).
The Unichip is uniquely programmed whilst the car is on a dyno and has many variable parameters. It is not as sophisticated as the Possum Link but it is cheaper and appears to give similar results.
The comment about the performance of the scoob already being enough may be true but many of us would prefer less lag and more mid-range torque and not just extra bhp at any expense. I think the Unichip offers this for a far lower cost than the PPP.
D.
What you say about the Unichip is not true. It may be a piggy-back chip but it does retain the original chip's safety guards such as knock sensing and rev limiting. It is far more sophisticated than other piggy-back chips such as Superchip (which fools the native ECU about boost levels).
The Unichip is uniquely programmed whilst the car is on a dyno and has many variable parameters. It is not as sophisticated as the Possum Link but it is cheaper and appears to give similar results.
The comment about the performance of the scoob already being enough may be true but many of us would prefer less lag and more mid-range torque and not just extra bhp at any expense. I think the Unichip offers this for a far lower cost than the PPP.
D.
22 July 2000, 12:19 AM
#42
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Tang,
Its seems a shame to have a car that goes quicker than standard (around bends and in s straight line) and yet stops like standard!.
I dont see how brakes would invalidate your warranty, if you want Prodrive then they now offer a big 4 pot upgrade for your car. Other than that the usual suspects exist, AP, Brembo, Tarox, Wilwood etc etc etc.
Sunil
Its seems a shame to have a car that goes quicker than standard (around bends and in s straight line) and yet stops like standard!.
I dont see how brakes would invalidate your warranty, if you want Prodrive then they now offer a big 4 pot upgrade for your car. Other than that the usual suspects exist, AP, Brembo, Tarox, Wilwood etc etc etc.
Sunil
22 July 2000, 07:07 PM
#43
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Andy,
I have just returned from Powerstation after having a Uni-chip fitted to my MY00.
Vast improvement.
Well worth the money and a fraction of the cost.And can be taken out and put in new car so you do not have to start all over again if you buy a new model.
Grant
I have just returned from Powerstation after having a Uni-chip fitted to my MY00.
Vast improvement.
Well worth the money and a fraction of the cost.And can be taken out and put in new car so you do not have to start all over again if you buy a new model.
Grant
22 July 2000, 09:10 PM
#44
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Grant,
I thought no chips were yet available for the 2000 model? Have they got them now? When you say "improvement" what do you mean specifically?
Obviously your warranty is out of the window now? Or is it?
Cheers,
Andrei
I thought no chips were yet available for the 2000 model? Have they got them now? When you say "improvement" what do you mean specifically?
Obviously your warranty is out of the window now? Or is it?
Cheers,
Andrei
23 July 2000, 10:04 AM
#45
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Andrei,
Firstly the warranty, after speaking to my dealer who will remain nameless (I will not disclose dealer to anyone)he said that if the engine had a major fault they would have to remove the Uni-chip before any warranty work could be undertaken.
As for improvement see my posting Thanks...Powerstation in this section.
IF you want more e-mail me.
Grant.
Firstly the warranty, after speaking to my dealer who will remain nameless (I will not disclose dealer to anyone)he said that if the engine had a major fault they would have to remove the Uni-chip before any warranty work could be undertaken.
As for improvement see my posting Thanks...Powerstation in this section.
IF you want more e-mail me.
Grant.
24 July 2000, 01:03 AM
#46
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Chuckster,
I'm here! Just been away with work for a couple of days.
Thanks for the advice guys.
On balance it seems to me that protecting re-sale value is a very valid issue. Personally, I'd walk well away from any car that had a list of non manufacturer trick bits fitted to it. It just shouts boy racer and there's always that doubt in your mind about the reliability/quality and begs the question, if the owner needed this much peformance he must have been caning it a lot!
Which, of course, I have... but I don't want to advertise the fact.
A business partner has an identical car to mine and we both feel they could use more power, or more specifically, torque. Its easy to get caught in the wrong gear exiting a bend and the whallop takes a while to come through. I suspect that more torque lower down the rev range would make the car more relaxing to drive quickly and more forgiving of poor gear choices etc.
Gareth
I have taken it on a track and was managing a series of events at a couple of circuits recently so got to test the car to the max. They are, of course, v quick in std spec, but I just love that shove in the back and "engage warp speed" feeling as you head towards the horizon... I'djust like it to be even more brutal! Top speed is irellevant, but for what its worth we both pulled 145 on the main 2 mile straight at Bruntingthorpe.
If I'm honest, I'd like more torque, but probably the thing that would be best to upgrade would be the brakes. I find if I drive very hard they go off quite quickly and mine are just standard MY99 4 pots. Driving it hard doesn't necessarily mean dangerously or illegally either. Gareth will know the Cat and Fiddle road and Axe edge road near here - both give the car a good test and you can accelerate and brake to the max without doing, or being able to do, stupid speeds on the straights. My brakes may just need sorting properly - new pads etc but I've never really been happy with them since day one. I don't think they are up to the cars peformance abilities.
On balance, I think I need to drive a Prodrive spec car then decide.
Thanks to everyone for their insight and experience.
I'm here! Just been away with work for a couple of days.
Thanks for the advice guys.
On balance it seems to me that protecting re-sale value is a very valid issue. Personally, I'd walk well away from any car that had a list of non manufacturer trick bits fitted to it. It just shouts boy racer and there's always that doubt in your mind about the reliability/quality and begs the question, if the owner needed this much peformance he must have been caning it a lot!
Which, of course, I have... but I don't want to advertise the fact.
A business partner has an identical car to mine and we both feel they could use more power, or more specifically, torque. Its easy to get caught in the wrong gear exiting a bend and the whallop takes a while to come through. I suspect that more torque lower down the rev range would make the car more relaxing to drive quickly and more forgiving of poor gear choices etc.
Gareth
I have taken it on a track and was managing a series of events at a couple of circuits recently so got to test the car to the max. They are, of course, v quick in std spec, but I just love that shove in the back and "engage warp speed" feeling as you head towards the horizon... I'djust like it to be even more brutal! Top speed is irellevant, but for what its worth we both pulled 145 on the main 2 mile straight at Bruntingthorpe.
If I'm honest, I'd like more torque, but probably the thing that would be best to upgrade would be the brakes. I find if I drive very hard they go off quite quickly and mine are just standard MY99 4 pots. Driving it hard doesn't necessarily mean dangerously or illegally either. Gareth will know the Cat and Fiddle road and Axe edge road near here - both give the car a good test and you can accelerate and brake to the max without doing, or being able to do, stupid speeds on the straights. My brakes may just need sorting properly - new pads etc but I've never really been happy with them since day one. I don't think they are up to the cars peformance abilities.
On balance, I think I need to drive a Prodrive spec car then decide.
Thanks to everyone for their insight and experience.
24 July 2000, 07:59 PM
#47
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DJB,
Ok, but I'm always a little bit 'afraid' of piggy-back chips. In theory it is possible to reprogram all the parameter-fields (don't known the english word for 'kenveld') and to lead all incoming sensordata through the piggy-back. Most piggybacks however only fool the main ECU by changing the turbo-pressure signal. This is not a good solution since the main ECU cannot adjust other parameters to match this changed turbo-pressure.
Gr.
Patrick
Ok, but I'm always a little bit 'afraid' of piggy-back chips. In theory it is possible to reprogram all the parameter-fields (don't known the english word for 'kenveld') and to lead all incoming sensordata through the piggy-back. Most piggybacks however only fool the main ECU by changing the turbo-pressure signal. This is not a good solution since the main ECU cannot adjust other parameters to match this changed turbo-pressure.
Gr.
Patrick
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