I have a 99 T turbo and along with a colleague am considering getting it Prodrived. What are people's thoughts? Is it worth the dosh and does it increase performance to a worthwhile degree?

Andy

Andy

Speak to Pete Croney at Scoobysport first, Prodrive Smodrive.

SJD

do you mean the PPP or the whole WR sport package

I've got the performance pack and the driving enhancement pack. I think it's excellent although I can't compare it with a normal uk spec, coz I've not driven one.

I don't regret my choice, but in it's a lot of money, so save your pennies for an STi

If you want to be 100% sure that your warranty is intact then the PPP at around £2000 is definitely worth it. You get a big extra chunk of useable torque, I had it on last car(MY99). If the frds car is earlier than 99 then results are debateable though, lots of unimpressed people with earlier cars.
If warranty is not such an issue for you then there are other ways, scoobymania, Scoobysport, BRDevelopements which will be cheaper initially, but may lead you down a more expensive path in the end ;-)(absolutely loads of stuff to play with)
Cheers
Chuck

I can't say I'e driven a PPP car, but I've got the Prodrive handling pack on my MY99 - I can run rings around my mates standard suspension MY98!

As for the PPP...Too much cash. Spend a few hundred quid on a decent Air-Filter and a Scoobysport exhaust. Decent gains for the cash. Even if it doesn't FEEL quicker, it sure as hell sounds like it should be!!

Oooh, another no-brainer. Look around the BBS for that intercooler air-flow splitter. £25-30 for real gains! I'm sure as hell getting one!

But hey...Spend the cash, if ya like...

Chuckster

From what I know all the Scoobysport upgrades do NOT defect from the UK warranty, hell even my local dealer refers and sells the back box etc.

The PP package is good, but for the £ per BHP performance you may be better speaking to Messers Croney and Tuckwood at Scoobysport and Scoobymania.

Haven't had any product from Scoobymania yet, but Mike is a thoroughly decent bloke and I am sure you would get good advice and products from him.

I think that Scoobysports credentials speak for themselves.

Scott, I was refering to an ECU upgrade, not just the b/b and airfilter. I am not really a believer that with just those 2 mods you will see as big an increase in useable torque as you would with the full PPP.
I agree that the backbox won't get you into trouble however. But once you change downpipe etc it all becomes a little more tricky. Some dealers will be absolutely fine with it, true, but technically you will be on shaky ground I believe. Thats why I stated '100% sure'. Just call me 'Mister conservative'. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/wink.gif
PS, if you do have an aftermarket backbox fitted then you cant have the PPP done later without reverting to the old backbox first, so make sure you aren't gonna go this route or it's potentially money wasted.
Cheers
Chuck

If you go to dyno.scoobynet.co.uk and look at the POWERSTATION figures (not the Power engineering ones) I think you see a good illustration of exactly what increases you can expect.

I recently traded in my MY97 for a V-reg MY99. After a year of owning the previous Scooby, I knew what I wanted to do the MY99!!

Although it's a good package, the Prodrive Performance Pack was NOT on my list of things to do!!!

So £2k for ECU, backbox and bit of silicon pipe work!

My ScoobySport backbox and downpipe, along with the Magnex mid section, and the RamPod Unifilter air inductor, came to less than £700!!!

I plan to go to BR Develpoments for the Possum Link, which will cost me about £1200.

I've seen the silicon hoses for about £70, so I still get £30 to spend elsewhere, for what I believe will be a more powerful and rounded car!!!!

When I was looking for a (new) scooby back in May I booked a test drive in a standard demo car (MY99) - it was great.

They had an RB5 Prodrive on the forecourt so I took it out straight after: same roads (local ones I know well), same conditions.

The difference was absolutely amazing http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

The RB5 was faster, yes, but the really big difference was in the handling: soooo much more grip, cornering was more precise, feedback was excellent.

I bought the RB5 but I'd say that it might be worth considering the wheels/tyres pack as that was what really blew me away.

Had a Scorpion backbox and GGR Induction kit put on my RB5 and got the same performance as a PPP (don't care what rolling roads say etc but on the road against a PPP car they were matched identically) for about £600 and a much better soundtrack!!!

Haven driven my car from new, and freely interchanged all of the following 1) Std ECU, 2) PPP ECU and 3) Possum Link ECU...i must confess that i was never unhappy with the Prodrive PP..it provides lovely useable torque and keeps your warranty intact and may help resale further down the line. My problem was i got greedy and so the Link by BRDev had to be done!

BTW, mine has only been on Power Engineerings rollers, before and after and stages inbetween, as long as you use the same rolling road/operator u can make equally valid comparisons for improvement as you are keeping as many as possible factors constant. Why the fascination with Powerstation?....at the end of the day its how it feels and goes on the road and my advice is this

1) If u want a std car ABSOLUTE WARRANTY PEACE OF MIND and dont plan to change loads of other things then just get the PPP

2) If you plan on changing dowpipes and stuff around later and want that bit extra then go for the Link BUT ONLY MAPPED BY BOB RAWLE

RB5 is the same as a my99/00 with a PPP, apart from the suspension and styling mods.
My wife has a my99 ppp with scorpion downpipe, magnex centr and magnex back box.
At Powerstation rolling road day it produced 241.5 bhp and 237 lb ft. Now thats pretty good on a conservative roller.
The car drives superb, is blindingly quick and still carries the warrenty, what can i say, it even produced 28mpg on a run up to Manchester the other day.
Now if you want more, just go out and buy a Type R http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

pAUL

I'm concerned about the comment that the PPP may be less effective on pre-MY99 cars. Is this really the case? I have a MY98 and am thinking about the PPP as I have now given up on being allowed to get a P1 http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/frown.gif, but i don't want to spend two grand and not get the performance.

Also, chuckster, I don't think you have to revert the car to standard backbox before getting the PPP done. it's more like any mods you make you should make before getting it done as the new ECU is tuned to the particular car. Or is this just bo11ocks?

[This message has been edited by DavidG (edited 18-07-2000).]

DavidG - it is bo11ocks http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif - the Prodrive leaflet clearly says that PPP is only available to previously unmodified cars.

WALKER - your MY99 car doesn't have the full warranty (well, "officially" speaking) since it's got a downpipe.

So, Andy K, as someone has already said - if warranty is absolutely essential to you then go for the PPP, if you are prepared to take a risk then there are other (cheaper) alternatives available. Tough decision http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Subarussian (edited 19-07-2000).]

In reply to Steve that his RB5 matched another Scooby with PPP. I can believe it, BUT Impreza's engine performance is VERY variable. The tolerances seem very wide. Some cars with identical miles and state of modiication will produce different boost/ performance figures. I struggle to beleive my last Scooby produced 200bhp, but the one before felt like 250.

I had an RB5 std and then PPP it after three weeks. Took it to the dealers in the morning and then picked it up in the evening. The difference was very noticeable. After that I fitted downpipe and full exhaust. Another good improvement, but no warranty.

Both Mods ie full exhaust inc downpipe and filter produce the same as PPP. But put the two together and you have STI levels of performance.

Summary the PPP is very good value for money as it will retain 50% of the investment come resale unlike a lot of other mods.

Jonathan
P1

For those who have had a MY99/00 PPP, I have three questions:

1) What mileage was it done at, or put it another way, would you recommend waiting until the car is fully loosened uo before having it done?

2) What was the reaction of your insurer when you said you were going to modify the car?

3) Would you recommend uprating the brakes as well?

Dippy,
1) What mileage was it done at, or put it another way, would you recommend waiting until the car is fully loosened uo before having it done?

I got my new car with all the prodrive stuff and was disappointed to see that they'd put 50 miles on the clock. they do speed tests, etc. I would run in a car first and then get a PPP.

2) What was the reaction of your insurer when you said you were going to modify the car?

Privilige were fine - 218-240 bhp was in their documentation just a 10% power increase. not much surcharge

3) Would you recommend uprating the brakes as well?

yes, yes, yes. I think this'll be my next upgrade.

DavidG,
I have heard bad things about the effect on pre MY99 cars, I know of 2 people who returned the PPP after having it fitted as no improvement was noted, either through 'feel', or when put on a rolling road.
I'd suggest either:
A - Get your car chipped, and find a sympathetic UK dealer who will overlook it, or
B - Sell up and get an imported STI http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/smile.gif

Dippy
1 - My car had it done after 6,000 miles, dealer suggested this was a good idea (letting it loosen up first).
2 - Admiral added about 20% loading to my insurance, but I put £2,000 of cosmetic stuff (Prodrive Rear wing and ST2's) on at same time, which didn't help insurance.
3 - If your brakes haven't faded on you yet then probably not, but once you start to make 'fuller' use of your car it is essential, whether you increase the power or not.
Cheers
Chuck

My car had the ppp conversion from new.

The brakes are fine, and thats with some heavy drivig thanks to the recent Midlands meet. I think uprated brakes on my99/00 compared to my98.

And my insurance company, Hyperformance did not increse the premium.

Paul

I have PPP'd my MY99, and would do it again.

Everyone focuses only on the BHP increase, this may be 'merely' c25bhp, but the increase in torque is far more noticable. With just the PPP on mine I could keep up with a std STi on the road.

Andy,

If you come to a track day you can compare and ask all the questions you can think of ! http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/biggrin.gif
Personally PPP made huge improvement in mid range torque, particularly noticeable on corner exit, standard STi will not pull away.

DJ

Gary,

Torque (Nm) and power (Bhp) are related. In fact, power is a function of torque and revs.

Power[kW]=2*pi*rpm[1/min]*Torque[Nm]/60000

An increase in torque automatically means an increase in power also. (Not the other way around).

Also, Engine-torque means nothing at itself. Two cars could have different gear-ratios which compensate for differences. For instance: an Integra-R (200Nm engine-torque) has roughly the same torque at the wheels as an Impreza (300Nm enigne-torque). Due to the fact that it has 50% shorter gearing, made possible by the fact in runs 50% more revs. (Approximations to illustrate my point!)

This is the reason that it is important that an engine can make a lot of revs. It enables the designer to put in shorter gears which deliver more torque.

In the end it is torque that accelerates the car, not power. Power is just a figure designed to be able to compare cars.

acceleration=torque/mass

Gr.

Patrick

[This message has been edited by TheMrPorsche (edited 19-07-2000).]

When you've taken your head out of the books, try actually driving a PPP'd car and a std car.

Torque is 'greater' because peak power whilst increased is also 'lower' in the rev range. Just look at the dyno figures. Most air/exhaust modifications cause BHP to be 'higher' than Torque as they shift peak power to higher rpm, PPP cars will have equal (ie c250bhp/250lb ft) if not higher torque.

And as you say it is Torque that accelerates, and hence greater torque is more noticable!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>For instance: an Integra-R (200Nm engine-torque) has roughly the same torque at the wheels as an Impreza (300Nm enigne-torque)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How on God's earth can 200Nm be roughly the the same as 300nm???????

Dumb founded

Richard

Hi,

As you carefully read my message again, you will notice that I try to tell you that torque comes from two things: engine-torque and gear-ratios. AT THE WHEELS an Integra-R has the same torque as an Impreza. It has 50% shorter gearings (made possible by the fact that it runs 50% more revs) which compensate exactly for the 50% lower engine-torque (again: approximations to illustrate my point). You can test that for yourself: try to outrun an Integra-R. Will be possible but not convincingly, above 200km/h the Integra actually is faster.

And indeed have I driven the Pro-Drive Performance kit aswell as the standard car. My car was modified with such a kit (including a Supersprint downpipe and a ramair-filter). I was very disappointed with the difference it actually makes compared to the standard car. It is not worth the money if you expect to humble a standard car. It doesn't. The differences are minor. The money is not. The only thing that is truly noticable is more torque below 3000revs. Most perfomance comes from your mind thinking you are faster because of the exhaust-sound. My car actually makes a 'hissing' metallic sound en spits flames.

In my opinion it is enough to fit 17" wheels and an exhaust-system including a 'convertor-less' downpipe to make an ideal Impreza.

Gr.

Patrick

Patrick

You have your opinion others have theirs. The std car IMHO and Ive had a couple with exhaust mods will not touch a 99/00MY car with Prodrive mods.

Money badly spent, well the kit might cost £2,000, but it will retain approx half this come resale.

Jonathan

Jonathan

I agree, the ProDrive-sub is faster, but the differences are minor. Very minor. Think twice before you spend so much money. The standard sub is already very, very fast.

Gr.

Patrick

I drove a MY00 with the Prodrive kit on last weekend. I also got Clare (MOH) to drive it.

I felt that it made the car more comfortable and smoother to drive. Sometimes mine (MY99) feels a little flat this wasn't true of the demo car.

Clare thought the extra torque was noticeable and useful. She liked the noise!
She gave the whole package 7/10.

Nice to have but a tad expensive. I wonder if it would make the car harder to sell than an unmodified car?

Can't compare it against other upgrades. I'm tempted.