Subaru qtr-mile slower than 172 cup???
04 October 2004, 12:18 AM
#61
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Did a good 30 miles in Mummy's 172(non cup) yesterday on some very good roads. I'm getting more used to pushing it but it just doesn't light my fire 
I keep trying it cos i fancy running one for a year while i put some hard cash together for sommat hot 
Once it gets to 5k it's great but is all over very quickly when the rev limiter cuts in
In real terms, it probably wouldn't be far behind my Scoob but it just doesn't feel like it would. Maybe if it was filtered for a new sound track and dropped then it would feel fast
I keep trying it cos i fancy running one for a year while i put some hard cash together for sommat hot Once it gets to 5k it's great but is all over very quickly when the rev limiter cuts in
In real terms, it probably wouldn't be far behind my Scoob but it just doesn't feel like it would. Maybe if it was filtered for a new sound track and dropped then it would feel fast
09 October 2004, 11:31 AM
#62
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have owned a impreza wrx with just over 300 hp (black k114 owv, sold to dealer in leeds. would love to know if the owner is on here btw ) some years back and now own a Clio cup.
off the line its hard to keep traction in the cup (especially on a day like today, rain = impossible). where as the impreza would easily handle a 6k clutch drop and be gone without 1 hint of wheelspin (i did go through some clutches ). with the impreza i was also much more confident in overtaking in small spaces, the scoob had so much more power lower down, where as my cup does need to be really screamed. literally cant change up untill just before rev limiter otherwise the powerband doesnt pick up properly in the next gear.
i havent really raced any scoobs yet (only a silver bugeye on the M2 about 6 weeks ago). in a straight line on link roads under 80 mph i would say it was very close if not slightly quicker than a standard uk spec scoob (my bro owns a 99 spec uk) , but when coming to the corners i feel my cup goes round alot faster and tighter than impreza's. (im not talking about modified anythings)
so for "street racing" i would favour the cup over a standard impreza.
as someone was talking about tuning.. for £1200 i could add another 13bhp and 27 lb/ft increase to my clio. for £2200 i think that gives me a full 200 hp (dunno bout torque) and for some £5k (final figures are not available) you can have a turbo fitted and have 260hp in a 172. i fear it would be horribly undrivable though
id have my old scoob over the cup for sheer overtaking ability, but the cup is alot more economical and more "fun". so as im doing over 1000 miles a month the clio will do for now(till i get my r34)
) some years back and now own a Clio cup. off the line its hard to keep traction in the cup (especially on a day like today, rain = impossible). where as the impreza would easily handle a 6k clutch drop and be gone without 1 hint of wheelspin (i did go through some clutches
). with the impreza i was also much more confident in overtaking in small spaces, the scoob had so much more power lower down, where as my cup does need to be really screamed. literally cant change up untill just before rev limiter otherwise the powerband doesnt pick up properly in the next gear. i havent really raced any scoobs yet (only a silver bugeye on the M2 about 6 weeks ago). in a straight line on link roads under 80 mph i would say it was very close if not slightly quicker than a standard uk spec scoob (my bro owns a 99 spec uk) , but when coming to the corners i feel my cup goes round alot faster and tighter than impreza's. (im not talking about modified anythings)
so for "street racing" i would favour the cup over a standard impreza.
as someone was talking about tuning.. for £1200 i could add another 13bhp and 27 lb/ft increase to my clio. for £2200 i think that gives me a full 200 hp (dunno bout torque) and for some £5k (final figures are not available) you can have a turbo fitted and have 260hp in a 172. i fear it would be horribly undrivable though
id have my old scoob over the cup for sheer overtaking ability, but the cup is alot more economical and more "fun". so as im doing over 1000 miles a month the clio will do for now(till i get my r34)
Last edited by Zoidberg; 09 October 2004 at 11:35 AM.
09 October 2004, 03:01 PM
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If you had a 172/182 side by side with a standars wrx both doing 40mph and both drivers put their foot down would the subaru pull away????????
09 October 2004, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Type_RA
them clio are pretty quick but I reckon I would have the edge in my impreza wrx
without details impossible for us to say
10 October 2004, 07:58 PM
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Lets go the whole hog......stick a 6 speed sequential box in a Clio, and some Michelin Cup tyres and most Impreza's wouldn't see which way it went.
0-100 in about 11 secs. Job done.
See ya!
0-100 in about 11 secs. Job done.
See ya!
10 October 2004, 08:27 PM
#71
Originally Posted by davyboy
Lets go the whole hog......stick a 6 speed sequential box in a Clio, and some Michelin Cup tyres and most Impreza's wouldn't see which way it went.
0-100 in about 11 secs. Job done.
See ya!
0-100 in about 11 secs. Job done.
See ya!
Paul
10 October 2004, 08:35 PM
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As a related aside, there was a Clio V6 at Santa Pod today, best I saw it do was 15.2 1/4 mile but can't remember what terminal it was. That was consitatnt over the 2 runs I saw it do.
10 October 2004, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jd
These threads p*ss me off, someone just have a race between a standard wrx and a clio cup...! Then post the video.
Conversation over.
Conversation over.
LOOK HERE for a vid of my almost standard bug (mods just exhaust and panel air filter nothing more). More info in "bugeye - how fast II" thred on here.
This vid was took on an aircraft runway so should be as flat as you can get.
Andy
10 October 2004, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pavlo
Now you really are dreaming. That would give it a low 12 1/4 mile, and I can tell you that even with drag radials on a prepped track, a front wheel drive car (of similar weight/power) will really struggle to do that.
Paul
Paul
They run 190bhp and are 121kgs lighter.
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/champi.../technical.htm
Not dreaming that much
I couldn't really give 2 ***** which is quicker to be honest.
10 October 2004, 09:42 PM
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All about less weight, rather than outweight power which is a good point that a load of people miss. After all, my 190bhp car will be faster than 99% of scoobs.
I see that clio is 900kg running 190bhp going through a LSD to, that's 211bhp per tonne which is better than most scoobs. You'd need a scoob (weighing 1400 kg?) running 300bhp minimum to have that sort of power to weight ratio. Add the face that the clio has a sequential box. Still should run 12's to 100 with a normal box I'd have thought.
However, how much would a race prepared clio cost and would it be roadworthy? Probably less than any new 300bhp scoob.
Anyway, talking modified cars is largely irrelevant as you can modify the car you're comparing against too, where does it all end? After all, a wrc scoob will be faster still. But then what about fitting a 500bhp engine in a clio with rwd or awd drivetrain, then what about upping the power on the wrc car, then what about doing the same to the clio etc....and on and on and on it goes
I see that clio is 900kg running 190bhp going through a LSD to, that's 211bhp per tonne which is better than most scoobs. You'd need a scoob (weighing 1400 kg?) running 300bhp minimum to have that sort of power to weight ratio. Add the face that the clio has a sequential box. Still should run 12's to 100 with a normal box I'd have thought.
However, how much would a race prepared clio cost and would it be roadworthy?
Probably less than any new 300bhp scoob.Anyway, talking modified cars is largely irrelevant as you can modify the car you're comparing against too, where does it all end? After all, a wrc scoob will be faster still. But then what about fitting a 500bhp engine in a clio with rwd or awd drivetrain, then what about upping the power on the wrc car, then what about doing the same to the clio etc....and on and on and on it goes
10 October 2004, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch
As a related aside, there was a Clio V6 at Santa Pod today, best I saw it do was 15.2 1/4 mile but can't remember what terminal it was. That was consitatnt over the 2 runs I saw it do.
11 October 2004, 08:34 AM
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Two different cars two different leagues ..........
The scoob at £20K IMHO is an OK car. It just needs the extra power that the STi gives.
The Clio cup at £12,999 is amazing value for money and is an excellent ''big game hunting car''.
I have driven against a guy who can REALLY drive a clio cup at the 'ring'. Before you ask its not Davey Boy its a guy called Ed Healy. My car with big (ish) BHP will pull away from it but christ I have to try hard.
If you asked which I would rather, then of course I would say the WRX coz its the full package but dont underestimate the cup, infact do so at your peril.
The scoob at £20K IMHO is an OK car. It just needs the extra power that the STi gives.
The Clio cup at £12,999 is amazing value for money and is an excellent ''big game hunting car''.
I have driven against a guy who can REALLY drive a clio cup at the 'ring'. Before you ask its not Davey Boy its a guy called Ed Healy. My car with big (ish) BHP will pull away from it but christ I have to try hard.
If you asked which I would rather, then of course I would say the WRX coz its the full package but dont underestimate the cup, infact do so at your peril.
11 October 2004, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
All about less weight, rather than outweight power which is a good point that a load of people miss. After all, my 190bhp car will be faster than 99% of scoobs.
I see that clio is 900kg running 190bhp going through a LSD to, that's 211bhp per tonne which is better than most scoobs. You'd need a scoob (weighing 1400 kg?) running 300bhp minimum to have that sort of power to weight ratio. Add the face that the clio has a sequential box. Still should run 12's to 100 with a normal box I'd have thought.
However, how much would a race prepared clio cost and would it be roadworthy? Probably less than any new 300bhp scoob.
Anyway, talking modified cars is largely irrelevant as you can modify the car you're comparing against too, where does it all end? After all, a wrc scoob will be faster still. But then what about fitting a 500bhp engine in a clio with rwd or awd drivetrain, then what about upping the power on the wrc car, then what about doing the same to the clio etc....and on and on and on it goes
I see that clio is 900kg running 190bhp going through a LSD to, that's 211bhp per tonne which is better than most scoobs. You'd need a scoob (weighing 1400 kg?) running 300bhp minimum to have that sort of power to weight ratio. Add the face that the clio has a sequential box. Still should run 12's to 100 with a normal box I'd have thought.
However, how much would a race prepared clio cost and would it be roadworthy?
Probably less than any new 300bhp scoob.Anyway, talking modified cars is largely irrelevant as you can modify the car you're comparing against too, where does it all end? After all, a wrc scoob will be faster still. But then what about fitting a 500bhp engine in a clio with rwd or awd drivetrain, then what about upping the power on the wrc car, then what about doing the same to the clio etc....and on and on and on it goes
Interesting
BUT, a proper race prepared car will cost a damn sight more than an out of the box 300bhp scoob, a good 2 times as much (60k atleast id say).
Also, a race prepared car (a proper one not a bodge job one
) will be needing constant engine rebuilds due to the high tuning of the engine, and considering that 211bhp per tonne v 219bhp per tonne is pretty close, the clio wouldnt be the most dominant car, look at the facts, an NA engine wont produce half as much torque as a turbo car (esp an impreza with 300bhp out of the box), plus the impreza wont be race prepared, you can buy these, Prodrive do the grp A cars for around 300k and a second hand one, one owner, careful driver 
will still set you back a good 100k......Some clio's are quick, some impreza's are quicker
Tony
11 October 2004, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim-Grove
lol Makes me laugh how people get all up tight when Clio’s are mentioned. Surprised build quality hasn’t been mentioned yet.
Makes me laugh how people get all up tight when Clio’s are mentioned. Surprised build quality hasn’t been mentioned yet.the clio cup racer has 192 bhp? thats hardly "highly tuned" needing lots of maintenance for a 2.0ltr is it
11 October 2004, 05:55 PM
#84
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mmm.. /me eats humble pie as he has no idea on the cup racers
ok ill rephrase, getting 190 brake out of my 2.0 wouldnt need lots of maintenance and stripping all the interior would probably take another 50 kgs out
/me imagines himself in his clio on the strip with nothing but a milk crate to sit on
anyways back to sanity
ok ill rephrase, getting 190 brake out of my 2.0 wouldnt need lots of maintenance and stripping all the interior would probably take another 50 kgs out
/me imagines himself in his clio on the strip with nothing but a milk crate to sit on
anyways back to sanity
11 October 2004, 06:57 PM
#85
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Clio cup race cars are 2 litre.
The engine on some cars have lasted a complete season, as have the gear boxes. The gear boxes can be rebuilt by Harlow motorsport for 500-600 quid, you may be able to get them done cheaper but to enter the Clio Championship they need to be done by Harlow. The Engines need to be sent back and a new sealed from Renault is sent back (£3k). You could have the engine rebuilt somewhere else, but to complete in the Clio Championship you need to get a new sealed engine from Renault.
A good re-shelled car with newish engine and gearbox will set you back £16k. You would need some front lights to enable you to get it road legal.
Dave
The engine on some cars have lasted a complete season, as have the gear boxes. The gear boxes can be rebuilt by Harlow motorsport for 500-600 quid, you may be able to get them done cheaper but to enter the Clio Championship they need to be done by Harlow. The Engines need to be sent back and a new sealed from Renault is sent back (£3k). You could have the engine rebuilt somewhere else, but to complete in the Clio Championship you need to get a new sealed engine from Renault.
A good re-shelled car with newish engine and gearbox will set you back £16k. You would need some front lights to enable you to get it road legal.
Dave
11 October 2004, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian the Sn@il
Whats the score wit the new 182 CUPS ???
The Cups are not significantly faster than the std car. Renaults claim of the 172 cup being 80 kgs lighter than the std car were wrong. 172 cup 980kgs v's 172 std 1035kgs (I know I had one and the kerb weight is on vin plate and in handbook)!
Therefore 172 cup =55 kgs lighter!!!
I removed my spare wheel (-14 kgs), tool kit/jack (-6 kgs) and often ran no more than half a tank of fuel (Optimax + Millers Octain Boost) bringing my cars kerb weight down to around 1015 kgs. Given that 99% of the time there was only me in it (77 Kgs) it did shift a bit and against cups there was absolutely nothing in it at all. (If I'd had a dump before going out I would have been faster!).
As for the 182 cup Renault state something like 25kgs lighter at 1090kg... you draw your own conclusions from what that will actually be!!! You do however get cup suspension thrown in.
Power to weight is everything... up to a point, off the mark is where it is usually most noticable.
With regard to which is quicker...Yaaaawwwn... both are very quick cars, but my experience on the road is that the scoob (without complacency) is quicker!
But hey! someone please video this once and for all and be done with it. Until someone mentions 330d, Mondeo TDCI, Raleigh Chopper..........
11 October 2004, 10:47 PM
#87
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Jason,
I'm affraid you are wrong.
Cup - 1021KG
172 MK1 - 1035KG
172 MK2 - 1100KG.
All the info is on www.cliosport.net
I'm affraid you are wrong.
Cup - 1021KG
172 MK1 - 1035KG
172 MK2 - 1100KG.
All the info is on www.cliosport.net
11 October 2004, 11:10 PM
#88
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Nope I think not!
With all due respect and unless my phase II 172 (2002) fab #CB1N and all the numorous ones I've checked were fitted with incorrect VIN plates I think you will find stamped on the VIN plate kerb weight 1035kgs.
If you look closely at http://www.cliosport.net/specs/clio172cup.asp you will notice this is confirmed by their specs.
Phase II 172 Kerb weight 1035 kgs
Phase II Cup Kerb weight 1021 kgs
The fact that they have put a 172 on a weight bridge is irrelevant as they haven't done this for the Cup!!!
What I am getting at is the official (VIN) kerb weight difference. However you look at it it ain't 80kgs!!!
Look I'm not having a go at the 172. My car only went because of a new family. It's one of the best cars I've had! It's just people go on and on about the cup and in reality it ain't that much different to a std 172 only without all the toys!
Jason
With all due respect and unless my phase II 172 (2002) fab #CB1N and all the numorous ones I've checked were fitted with incorrect VIN plates I think you will find stamped on the VIN plate kerb weight 1035kgs.
If you look closely at http://www.cliosport.net/specs/clio172cup.asp you will notice this is confirmed by their specs.
Phase II 172 Kerb weight 1035 kgs
Phase II Cup Kerb weight 1021 kgs
The fact that they have put a 172 on a weight bridge is irrelevant as they haven't done this for the Cup!!!
What I am getting at is the official (VIN) kerb weight difference. However you look at it it ain't 80kgs!!!
Look I'm not having a go at the 172. My car only went because of a new family. It's one of the best cars I've had! It's just people go on and on about the cup and in reality it ain't that much different to a std 172 only without all the toys!
Jason
Last edited by jasonius; 11 October 2004 at 11:15 PM.
11 October 2004, 11:14 PM
#89
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No really I KNOW you are wrong.
I have been a member of the CS forum for around 4 years we have had this arguement around 2.5 years ago when the MK2 first came out. We even had it confirmed by Renault.
Do a search on the forum.
I have been a member of the CS forum for around 4 years we have had this arguement around 2.5 years ago when the MK2 first came out. We even had it confirmed by Renault.
Do a search on the forum.
11 October 2004, 11:22 PM
#90
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Wrong about what exactly?
What have you had confirmed by Renault???
The very page you've pointed out confirms what I've been saying!!!
Someone please look at this...
http://www.cliosport.net/specs/clio172mk2-2.asp
http://www.cliosport.net/specs/clio172cup.asp
and tell me I'm wrong!
The fact that you've been a member of this page for 4 yrs dosen't mean you read whats on it. Look at the pages yourself and explain to me what your getting upset about!
I'll look forward to your apology.
What have you had confirmed by Renault???
The very page you've pointed out confirms what I've been saying!!!
Someone please look at this...
http://www.cliosport.net/specs/clio172mk2-2.asp
http://www.cliosport.net/specs/clio172cup.asp
and tell me I'm wrong!
The fact that you've been a member of this page for 4 yrs dosen't mean you read whats on it. Look at the pages yourself and explain to me what your getting upset about!
I'll look forward to your apology.
Last edited by jasonius; 11 October 2004 at 11:25 PM.