Whats the current thinking on vegetarianism....good or bad for your health?
19 August 2004, 11:12 AM
#61
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Do also remember that people who are in very old age today have lived the majority of their lives without processed food. Their diet throughout life has probably been relatively low in refined sugar, salt, and transfats.
Also, I suspect in the period of 1900-1950, they lived through years of rationing and reduced intake.
While they may still have had an unhealthy diet, the quality of the food was probably nowhere near as bad as some chavs have today.
Also, I suspect in the period of 1900-1950, they lived through years of rationing and reduced intake.
While they may still have had an unhealthy diet, the quality of the food was probably nowhere near as bad as some chavs have today.
19 August 2004, 11:16 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by lightning101
My grandad died at 96 years old and had the poorest diet ever. Chips with everthing, meat on every plate, lot of bread, smoked half of his life.
In hospital twice in my lifetime - for a broken leg, and an ear infection.
So high cholestrol, fat, cigarettes - but no heart disease or cancer.
In hospital twice in my lifetime - for a broken leg, and an ear infection.
So high cholestrol, fat, cigarettes - but no heart disease or cancer.
If he had eaten well he would have lived longer....unless he got ran over by a bus whilst buying a 4lbs of Broccoli.
19 August 2004, 11:17 AM
#63
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There is a case to be made that crime is dietetically determined. Cut out junk food - cut out crime.
"An apple a day keeps the policeman at bay!" (Dr Hugo Bream)
UB
"An apple a day keeps the policeman at bay!" (Dr Hugo Bream)
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19 August 2004, 11:20 AM
#64
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on thw whole veggies are healthier than your avarge non-veggie....not because of meat or not eating meat but because anyone who makes such a bold stand about what they shove in their mouth normaly are bette about the other stuff as well.
this is where the veggie/fish/non fish stuff doesnt matter. its about making a stand. i dont eat red meat.....for all i loose in red meat "goodness" i gain from being someone who is aware what they eat.
this is where the veggie/fish/non fish stuff doesnt matter. its about making a stand. i dont eat red meat.....for all i loose in red meat "goodness" i gain from being someone who is aware what they eat.
19 August 2004, 11:28 AM
#65
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Tiggs makes alot of sence there all us who eat meat wont think twice about a choccy bar or picking up a maccy dees or having a pizza/chinese etc.... where as some1 who is piccy about their food will probably be piccy about other things too.
not on either side here, just read through the whole of this thread and its a very good read. adult debate too rather than some of the other threads Ive read
all us who eat meat wont think twice about a choccy bar or picking up a maccy dees or having a pizza/chinese etc.... where as some1 who is piccy about their food will probably be piccy about other things too. not on either side here, just read through the whole of this thread and its a very good read. adult debate too rather than some of the other threads Ive read
19 August 2004, 11:32 AM
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"If he had eaten well he would have lived longer....unless he got ran over by a bus whilst buying a 4lbs of Broccoli."
Not sure I can think of anyone else I know personally whose grandparents made it past that age even due to healthy eating.
Old foods were ultra high cholestrol - e.g. base products of Butter, Lard, Red Meat, Flour. So even if they were not processed, according to todays findings they were all awaiting a heart attack.
Not sure I can think of anyone else I know personally whose grandparents made it past that age even due to healthy eating.
Old foods were ultra high cholestrol - e.g. base products of Butter, Lard, Red Meat, Flour. So even if they were not processed, according to todays findings they were all awaiting a heart attack.
19 August 2004, 11:35 AM
#67
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Originally Posted by lightning101
Old foods were ultra high cholestrol - e.g. base products of Butter, Lard, Red Meat, Flour. So even if they were not processed, according to todays findings they were all awaiting a heart attack.
Anyway, yes, I agree that "old" foods were high in saturated fats - full fat milk, full fat butter, lard etc. However, given Atkins et al state that stuffing your gob with fatty protein can reduce cholestrol, can we really prove that the diet of the early 1900's was causing a cholestrol problem? There would be a lot less refined carbs & no transfats in the 1900's diet.
Last edited by imlach; 19 August 2004 at 11:38 AM.
19 August 2004, 11:43 AM
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always found the butcher to be a pain, they give prices per kilo or something, well I dont know how much of something to ask for....lol
19 August 2004, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by milo
and why are there not heaps of cases of liver/kidney failure in strength atheletes?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olym...cs/3579104.stm
What puzzles me is how you can be in hospital for 5 days with acute renal failure, and then a few days later run in the 200m Olympic event?
19 August 2004, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
**** off, not EVERY day you don't, surely?!! 
this is NOT eaten in one sitting, naturally.
19 August 2004, 01:09 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by milo
yes. 200g of chicken 5 times a day. unless i suck at math, that equals a kilo.
this is NOT eaten in one sitting, naturally.
this is NOT eaten in one sitting, naturally.
19 August 2004, 01:11 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by imlach
My wife has no problem whipping the a$$ of meat-eaters in the pool or on her bike. She's doesn't have to eat huge quantities of vegi food to attain that feat.
for instance, take world's stongest man pudzianowski. he could go 3 days without ANY food and without ANY sleep and still beat you in any strength competition. this isnt compelling reason for him to do it however - he'd just beat you by a lesser margin that if he'd have slept and eat. but in both cases he'd whip ***.
in other words, what's to say that if your wife didnt up her protein levels, allowing her to recover faster, she wouldnt be beating her meat-eating friends by an even larger margin?
19 August 2004, 01:12 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by imlach
Oops....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olym...cs/3579104.stm
What puzzles me is how you can be in hospital for 5 days with acute renal failure, and then a few days later run in the 200m Olympic event?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olym...cs/3579104.stm
What puzzles me is how you can be in hospital for 5 days with acute renal failure, and then a few days later run in the 200m Olympic event?
doesnt sound like he's dying from eating too much chicken to me
19 August 2004, 01:15 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by milo
yes. 200g of chicken 5 times a day.
If you say so. So "well over" 1kg is actually 1kg? I'm trying not to suggest you're exaggerating, but i've eaten as much as anyone in my time, especially on a building cycle, and 1kg EVERY day would still have been a reach, physically as much as anything else...
19 August 2004, 01:15 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by weapon69
Doesn't that get a bit boring? i thought variety was part of a healthy diet!
i get in sufficient quantities of vitamins and minerals from tablets and what goes with the chicken - such as veggies - and carbs from brown rice.
my strength and bodyfat levels thrive on this kind of strict routine. other people are different of course. im not suggesting anyone else should be taking in 300-400g of protein a day.
19 August 2004, 01:18 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by milo
"Fortunately all serious causes of the condition were ruled out and it seems likely that it was caused by a virus"
doesnt sound like he's dying from eating too much chicken to me
doesnt sound like he's dying from eating too much chicken to me
Always the medical cop-out answer
19 August 2004, 01:18 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
If you say so. So "well over" 1kg is actually 1kg? I'm trying not to suggest you're exaggerating, but i've eaten as much as anyone in my time, especially on a building cycle, and 1kg EVERY day would still have been a reach, physically as much as anything else...
perhaps you weigh less than me and/or have a slower metabolism, and/or perhaps you're taking in more calories from carbs than i do. i find i get my best results, bulking or cutting, from keeping protein extremely high.
we probably have different goals too.
19 August 2004, 01:21 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by milo
comparing her to someone else doesnt make sense.
in other words, what's to say that if your wife didnt up her protein levels, allowing her to recover faster, she wouldnt be beating her meat-eating friends by an even larger margin?
in other words, what's to say that if your wife didnt up her protein levels, allowing her to recover faster, she wouldnt be beating her meat-eating friends by an even larger margin?
You're obviously someone who studies nutrition at quite an intricate level for the purposes of peak physical fitness.
Most others are more relaxed about their food intake and eat a well balanced diet, with some bad bits occassionally. They're not looking to attain a peak of fitness, just good fitness.
They're not obsessed over it to ensure a 9.9s 100m rather than a 9.95s 100m.
19 August 2004, 01:23 PM
#80
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Between about 17/18 stone, i was doing about 6,000 calories a day in the early 90s. That requires a LOT of eating, but no way could i have done 1kg+ of meat *every* day, no way. Even if i'd tried, and at the expense of other carb calories. One or two days maybe, but every day - that's the bit i'm amazed at.
19 August 2004, 01:34 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Between about 17/18 stone, i was doing about 6,000 calories a day in the early 90s. That requires a LOT of eating, but no way could i have done 1kg+ of meat *every* day, no way. Even if i'd tried, and at the expense of other carb calories. One or two days maybe, but every day - that's the bit i'm amazed at.
the "supplements" i take increase protein assimilation too, which is why i keep protein as high as possible. i have proven to myself that this is beneficial via trial and error over the years. likewise i find eating real foods that require digestion is beneficial for me.
how much protein were you taking in? given that there is about 30g of protein per 100g of chicken breast, a kilo of this is only 300g of protein total. unless you keep protein levels lower, you were probably having to take in a lot from other sources. i pick mostly chicken because it works well for me.
19 August 2004, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by imlach
PS Milo - I'm not criticising your views.....just that you have your goal (a very high standard), and everyone else has theirs (as you said to Telboy).
of course, everyone's goals are different and that should always be realized.i just stated what i do, and even said heaps of times that i suggest nobody copies me unless they have the same goals as me and know what they're doing.
19 August 2004, 01:41 PM
#85
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If i remember rightly, i was doing about 45% protein, 50% carbs and 5% fat, when not dieting down. Probably 4-500g of meat a day at a guess. But then most people thought i was weird doing twelve egg whites a day - whatever works i guess...
19 August 2004, 01:43 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by milo
if eating cardboard all day long would improve my lifts, i would do it in a heartbeat.
19 August 2004, 01:48 PM
#87
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Originally Posted by imlach
So what if eating something 'bad for your health long-term' improved your lifts, would you eat it?
i will openly admit i take things that are at the least "questionable" for my long-term health but provide huge gains in my lifts. so quite probably i would to be honest with u.
bear in mind EVERYTHING is relative tho. i dont drink, dont smoke, dont eat poor quality foods, sleep 8-10 hours a day etc etc.
19 August 2004, 01:49 PM
#88
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
If i remember rightly, i was doing about 45% protein, 50% carbs and 5% fat, when not dieting down. Probably 4-500g of meat a day at a guess. But then most people thought i was weird doing twelve egg whites a day - whatever works i guess...
never did agree with the "egg whites only" thing. i consume quite a few eggs.. but always whole eggs. the yolks are very beneficial (and im happy to have the often misunderstood cholestoral debate with you too if you'd like
)but yeah.. whatever works
19 August 2004, 01:56 PM
#89
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My fat intake was very low yes - in fact 5% could well have been more like 10% - i never analysed it day by day if not dieting. But the understanding of cholesterol has come on leaps and bounds in the last ten years, at least to the general public. I was still in the meat, eggs and milk school of thinking which to be fair, still did the job. But as we both know, "additional nutrition" is more important in many respects than food diet composition.
19 August 2004, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lem0ncurd
Scientists believe that the diet of any animal corresponds to its anatomical and physiological system. Animals can be divided into three categories according to their natural diet. Carnivores such as lions, dogs and cats, live mostly on meat; herbivores such as cows, sheep and elephants, eat grass and leaves; and frugivores such as anthropoid apes, live on fruits, nuts, and grains. Men, herbivores and frugivores have an intestinal tract which is about twelve times their body length and their teeth are small and dull. The intestinal tracts of carnivores are only three times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly, and they have claws and sharp front teeth for tearing while no flat molars for grinding.
Carnivores have strong hydrochloric acid in their stomachs to digest meat, while men, herbivores and frugivores have stomach acid twenty times less strong than meat-eaters. In addition to these differences, carnivores have no pores and they perspire through their tongues to cool their bodies, while humans, herbivores and frugivores perspire through millions of pores on the skin. Flesh-eating carnivores have small salivary glands in their mouths because they do not need to predigest flesh. On the other hand, men, like other vegetarian animals, have well developed salivary glands, which are needed to predigest grains and fruits. From the above comparison, it is evident that man is vegetarian by nature.
It seems that because of circumstances over the past several thousand years of man's history, some men deviated from their natural diet and became omnivores, who eat both meat and plants. However, our anatomical and physiological features have remained similar to those of other vegetarian animals. It should be remarked that man cannot eat raw meat like carnivores do; we have to cook it, bake it, grill it or fry it..
LC.
Carnivores have strong hydrochloric acid in their stomachs to digest meat, while men, herbivores and frugivores have stomach acid twenty times less strong than meat-eaters. In addition to these differences, carnivores have no pores and they perspire through their tongues to cool their bodies, while humans, herbivores and frugivores perspire through millions of pores on the skin. Flesh-eating carnivores have small salivary glands in their mouths because they do not need to predigest flesh. On the other hand, men, like other vegetarian animals, have well developed salivary glands, which are needed to predigest grains and fruits. From the above comparison, it is evident that man is vegetarian by nature.
It seems that because of circumstances over the past several thousand years of man's history, some men deviated from their natural diet and became omnivores, who eat both meat and plants. However, our anatomical and physiological features have remained similar to those of other vegetarian animals. It should be remarked that man cannot eat raw meat like carnivores do; we have to cook it, bake it, grill it or fry it..
LC.