Cold Turkey

I'm guessing yours is non standard then ?
what have you had done to it ?

always interested in other peoples mods

coolangatta

As an owner who 'may' bring his 03JDM STi back to the UK am interested in your comment. WouldI be looking at serious power reduction from that I have now?
Or would re-calibration, Optimax, octane booster etc resolve any potential reduction.

Adam M

an ecutek remap would cure det but would cost you power as it would involve removing ignition from your map which supports 100 ron fuel, though I hear true 100 ron fuel is a rumour.

Optimax and NF will give you over the 100ron you would need to get the standard power figures quoted in japan.

Mike,

Thanks for clarifying. My comment was only based on the way you constructed your posts on the previous page. You seem to intimate that Iain had a "special" relationship with autocar in one post, and in another that the car supplied to customer's was a different spec from those supplied to journalists.

You have since qualified this by saying that that is exactly what you were trying to say with the exception that Iain has made no claims to suggest otherwise and that these mods are available to any customer who wants them.

It's all clear, just consider how your post appears to the rest of us. I have dealt with Iain and consider him to be one of the most honest people I have ever met, I found your insinuations insulting, even if he didn't, hence my reply.

My apologies for bringing it up again since I now see that you and Iain have spoken.

hawkeye

let's be honest both Mike & Iain in there own ways are doing WONDERS for the subaru market place and I for one am glad that people like them are around promoting such a good product. I hope and have my checkbook ready for prodrives next installment to better the wr1 and if not I think the only route for me would be a T25 it simply seems amazing.

great work by two enthusiasts at opposing ends of the subaru spectrum.

whiteyisback

I've not always been kind to Mike on here (most recently I moaned that the WR1 could have incorporated some obvious mods that most new age owners have to go and get done after they've paid out a small fortune for their new car)....but when all's said and done we need people like Mike and Ian to keep pushing things forward as best they can (and with the IM restrictions I think Mike is). I look forward to the next prodrive fettled car and likewise the next litchfield beastie.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Mike and Iain are both right, Iain has stated that they tested the JDM cars (both spec c and GL) and the average output was around 285-290, i can varify this, my spec c pushed out 288bhp and 297lbs of torque (quoted at 280ps and 290lbs of torque in the book) then i added an STi panel filter and that shot up a little (299bhp, even made 300.1bhp ) and over 310lbs of torque so it shows you where the restrictions are
Out of the box these are very quick cars though, ive proved it on more than one occasion and hacked off the likes of E46 M3 drivers who thought my car was easy meat (due to the fact it looks like a wrx ) oh and thats on a private road btw
My car also runs quite happily on octane booster and optimax though i do reduce my service intervals to 5k rather than the 7.5 recommended (i dont do that many miles in the scoob anyway).

Mike, when you say you have 2 different versions of the spec c are you classing the 16 and 17 inch versions together and the limited as the comfort version

Tony

MadMark

Hear, Hear

CraigH

How come the Spec C and Type 25 don't suffer heatsoak?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

It must be the auto intercooler spray

Tony

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

I totally agree

Heatsoak(Engine/exhaust heating up TMI) is it a case of the inlet Temps too high and ECU cuts Power or inlet Temp too high reducing the amount Oxygen thus reducing Power. Is it a case of ECU protection or just Power loss ?

Do the UK/EU cars have more protection built in than JDm's? or is heatsoak perhaps just a UK optional extra LOL

Mike did say the new PPP's have added protection of restricted boost untill engine up to Temp

Tony

Daz34

They do

madou

Mike

Watch out for the white liquid floating in your milk

FrenchBoy

I think Mike's great.

He personally came and visited me to sort out some problems I was having with my car when the original dealer couldn't care less. Not only did he sort the problem, it was great just getting to chat to him and ask him loads of questions (which he very patiently answered - no matter how stupid they were).
Finally my car drives like it should and thats all thanks to him taking time out to do so.

There are some people on here who dont seem to fully understand the constraints that Prodrive have to work within. When you consider the brief that they have to work with from IM then the only conclusion you can come to is that they do an excellent job.

Cheers Mike!

(I'm sorry i said PPP meant "**** Poor Performance" - I take it all back)

st33ly

Nice one!

p1doc

i have talked to mike on phone and he seems nice enough although the advice he gave re reset was not to my taste hence remap!
martin

GRIFF007

good thread guys - keep it going

T25, possibly 333, STiPPP & WR1 are all cars of great interest.

I really wish that Mike could get the immediate ok to develop a warrantied Prodrive version of the T25 - ie better suspension with good ride comfort, better off boost torque and potential of 350 lb ft torque

After all the US 2.5 short motor is probably cheaper (volume) at the factory and the T25 suspension components in volume would probably be no more expensive than original. - I think a very strong Prodrive T25 substitute could be created and sold under £30 k with good margins all round.......

Because the engine is les stressed, perhaps IM would like to add free servicing for 3 yrs (transferable) too?

I am convinced this is totaly practical and would sell in large (relatively speaking) numbers.

Work must certainly be done to alleviate the off-boost pulling away nightmare that is absolutely dangerous -- pull out of junction into heavy traffic - have I got 300 lb ft, 200, or what sometimes feels like 100 lb ft?

Using the 2.5 as a solution to above would also give better clutch life.

ALL TOGETHER NOW -- WHAT WE NEED IS A PRODRIVE TYPE 2.5 - WHAT DO WE NEED? - A PRODRIVE T 2.5!!

I FEEL THE NEED -- THE NEED FOR......

johnfelstead

I finally got to give a WR1 a few sessions on track last weekend and i was impressed. The engine is much stronger than the STi8 PPP, the smooth power delivery is the most noticable diference. You can carry a great deal of speed through high speed corners in particular, its very stable and easy to collect when you allow it to get out of shape at high speed. It works best in the slow speed hairpins where the DCCD-A allows some lovely 4 wheel drift exits, or the high speed high G corners, its least impresive area is in medium speed corners where you are accelerating hard through the corner, still impresive though, it pays to be patient with the throttle to get the max acceleration in that type of corner, its an area i would personally change with some minor tweeks to the suspension, but that would make the car more pointy which may be an issue for most road drivers.

The limiting factor on this car is the tyres, they are too much of a road tyre to exploit the car fully on track. This is much more an issue on the new age cars than was the case with the classics due to the extra front end weight, on a classic you can get away with more using road tyres IMHO. If i was using a WR1 on track i would be using some R type tyres, such as fitted to the Spec C, that would find a lot of time and sharpen up the medium speed corners in particular.

As a road car the WR1 is superb, its very neutral, easy to drive quickly and has masses more grip than you should be exploiting on the road, i could certainly live with one on a daily basis.

With regards to heat soak, the inlet temps dropped very quickly once on the move, it was up around 70 degrees C as i left the pits and only took a few hundred yards to be down to close to ambient, allowing full power to be developed. Having always monitored charge temps on my Impreza and driven off boost until they drop to sensible values, the safety built into the WR1 mapping to do this for you makes complete sense. This of course means that on a 1/4 mile or dyno day your results wont be too brilliant, but i would much prefer that to having the car detting.

I took a couple of Subaru Dealer employees out for a few laps at the end of the day, they had no idea the car could travel at the speeds it was, it has a lot of performance in reserve for road use, the brakes are particularly good for a road car with ABS.

The WR1 is the best Oficial Impreza to date IMHO, it needs better tyres and a tweeked geometry to work to its limits on these track tests though, thats where its letting itself down in the press shoutouts. Mike knows this i am sure, but IM doesnt play the game with their press fleet, until they do its always going to be that way.

sushi

Would somebody give this thread a few stars. It is very interesting.

Dazza's-STi

WTF... The brakes arethe same as mine... STImy03PPP and ****e!

Better with much better pads... but standard

Correct about the tyres..but as a track tool... MMMMmmmmm... No where near stiff enough springs and roll bars...

Possibly a better road car than the MY03 PPP though, due to the DCCD, but I be supprised if many could tell the difference!
As for for pullung power, side by side, I still havnt seen a comparison with a PPP... is it going to romp off into the distance as the figures suggest... or not

Come on guys... somebody has to do a real side by side comparison... on a airstrip...

I'll offer...

Yorkshire WR1 owners...?

It would be great to see it perform well in light of all the speculation... Then some lucky owners will be well happy...

hawkeye

I'd also like to throw my little MY02sti into this equation

Dazza's sti a wr1 and my sti on an airfield come on guys it would be fun !

dc911

Well i also would like to join this in my lowly Type 25

hawkeye

careful according to the hype your t25 is lowly LOL

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Nice to have a "Fair and unbias" report from a respected Subaru source

Two very good pionts you would have thought they would have fitted the Bridgestone RE050's for road use. The RE070's are brill on track but maybe not such a good allround road tyre IMHO . BTW I am trying The new Michelan Pilots Sport2 (I always rated the Bridgstones but giving them a try)

Mike also programed the later PPP's that you are unable to boot the car from cold Not that anyone would


Tony

johnfelstead

I think you are missing the point Dazza, my opinions on the car are based on how it performs as an out of the box production car that is tuned for road use, it's a seriously quick package that is capable of being driven very quickly on track even though its emphasis is towards a good road setup. If i wanted it to be a more track biased car i would alter the suspension spec and its geometry settings plus use diferent tyres, but as its a car aimed at being quick for the majority of drivers on the road, it's track manners are certainly better than acceptable, i know i could give a lot of people a fright in this car with the speed it can carry.

Lets get realistic here, if you want a track car you wont be using a WR1, thats not what its been built for, so the emphasis on track times is a bit pointless really. What i do know is if i was given this car before a track test, i could make it much faster by just changing the geometries, which is exactly what is done to cars like the Type25 before they are used on track, if you used the Type25 with its track test setup on the road it would chew its tyres up in 1000 miles, IM should start playing the game, or they should stop providing cars for track based shootouts, because they are not allowing the cars real potential to be exploited.

The brakes are not ****e, they survived plenty of laps of hard use pushing them to the point of lockup in the slower entry corners, for such a heavy car on standard brakes thats impresive. The ABS system was also very good and hardly ever became active, something the classic ABS system used to do anoyingly often when pushed hard. Again if i was making this a track biased car i would alter the compound used, but as a road car it performed exceptionally well in such a tough environment.

With regards to being able to tell the diference between the WR1 and an STi8 Type UK, i could, i spent half the day in an STi8 and swapped between this and the WR1 3 times, the transmition system makes a huge diference, especially in the lower speed tight corners where the DCCD-A really pulls the car through and allows you to be very agresive with the throttle.

The best thing about the WR1's engine wasnt the increase in power, it was how smooth that power was delivered, it's miles better than a normal PPP. I dont know how it would perform side by side in an acceleration test, which lets face it means very little when you are talking a diference of 6% in a 1400Kg car anyway.

The Type 25 is obviously going to be a quicker car, it has masses more torque due to the 2.5 that has been properly setup by Iain and powerstation, i have driven this car on the road and its seriously quick, but lets not forget the market place and the current models available to the oficial UK importers, Iain can do pretty much what he wants to the car, Dont forget no Impreza is made with the engine config of the type25, it's a hybrid using the USDM bottom end, a JDM top end and a turbo designed specifically for this combination, all custom mapped with EcuTek. Iain and Powerstation have done a remarkable job with this car, but its not a mass produced production car for sale via the main dealer network, it's a specialist car with a smaller market place so they can do what they want.

Personally i think the UK Impreza will be made available in 2.5 with DCCD-A as standard in the not too distant future, and prodrive will make a version of PPP for it, but if this does happen it will still show a lower track performance than cars like the Type 25, because IM will probably still not understand you have to play the game with car setup when providing cars for track tests.

LitchfieldImports

Exactly how fast do we want a practical 4 door saloon to lob us down the road The only relevance track times (or any performance figures in general) have is to give tangible reassurance that you have spent your money on something like right toy. Oh and bragging rights
In truth the things that really matter like how it feels, turns, goes and costs can not be explained in times on their own.

It is impossible to please everyone especially when you have numerous targets/conditions to meet. You’d be surprised at the number of calls from potential customers that have not driven the Type 25 who ask at the end of a conversation “can you give me more power!” lol
Subaru recently took the 2005 Spec C round Nurburgring in under 8mins barely 3 secs slower than the GT3 , bet it didn’t even register with Porsche!

Colt will later in the year present their limited run 400bhp Evo. It’ll almost certainly show quicker times/figures but will its big turbo, Eibach springs etc but will it be nice to drive?? If it was that easy it would cost £20k and come like that from the factory.

Not quite John the Type 25 that was sent to Autocar was running our normal road geometry as we were told most of the review would centre around road performance. As you know, if you run loads of camber for example it might (marginially) improve track performance but it would drag you all over the place on the road and feel quite unstable.

Iain

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The RE070's are scary tyres until you have worn them in a little
in the dry you dont have any problems, but new and in the wet the car will tramline all over the place but it does improve and they are a good all round tyre, even in the wet, giving you plenty of notice they want to let go, its the dry thats the scary bit as they have so much grip
The adverse effect you get though is a little harsher ride due to the very hard sidewalls, its bearable though

Tony

johnfelstead

Thats the problem with these tests Iain, they dont give you enough info on how the cars are configured, some tests have track based setups on the cars, others dont. If they were to do a geometry printout of the cars you could make a more informed opinion of what results you are reading.

With regards to the Spec C's time at the 'ring, i was there that weekend and met the driver, he was the same chap that set the previous record. Based on the changes to the car i was surprised it wasnt even quicker, as the track has been resurfaced in some critical areas that has taken a few seconds off the lap time anyway.

As you say what really matters is how they drive, and also how you feel driving the car. The only way you will know this is by getting in the car and having a go yourself, magazine articles are quite limited in what they can get accross in terms of information that is most important to you, the prospective owner.

Dazza's-STi

yep that would be a very good idea!

roll ons from 10 40 70mph should do it!

any time for you hawk... all we need is a willing WR1...

Neil Smalley

Iain,

Did'nt you adjust the suspension etc during the testing though?

"Ian Litchfield must have forgotten the second part of that definition as he calmy toyed with the type 25's dampers and dialled out a touch of understeer to tweek the impreza for Paddock hill." - Autocar 27/7 p67

It then goes on to state you were'nt cheating, but using the adjustability of the suspension that comes with the T25.

This is exactly why it's so hard to compare like Impreza with like and it should be done by personal test drive. Tyres, being able to adjust suspension etc etc can make huge differences to track and performance times they all should be taken as ball park figures and not definitive in any way. As John says, it is a shame that IM or most magazines won't let 'the game be played' as i'm sure given a few on the day adjustments a lot more favourable results would be achieved.

davyboy

RE070 are not R rated are they? They have a tread pattern as such, but I am sure they are a regular street tyres comound rather than a Pirelli P Zero Corsa.