GaryScoobNCBR

ok so the brakes and headlights aren't the best , but I've not had one person sit in my car that aint a "racing driver" that hasn't been impressed by the speed and handling of the standard car, this is compared to whatever they normally drive, which in most cases they paid more for than i did for my car.

Everycar has there faults but this doesn't mean that there not great cars this is why they constantly make the top cars you must drive list

M444GY

iTrader: (72)

PROBABLY did have other mad car phases though

Richard Askew

..they're comparing to their usual cars and I'm comparing standard to tweaked from my experiences...

So personally I think the standard car I owned was a sack of **** compared to the tweaked car I now own..

Hey its a world of varying opinions (it'd be boring otherwise) and its all IMHO which doesnt count for toffee anyways

Gary C

Hum, try driving your road car in corsica or keilder and see how long it would last at the speeds they drive

I do like the link to the rally cars,
I liked the fact that my old EVO was the basis for the Grp A rally car, You got stronger than normal parts in the car as required for homlogation (ok, not all but some).

micared

My comparison is based on when my UK spec MY00 was standard versus the limited mods it now has, which have transformed it. Had the mods I went with not made such a difference, I'd certainly have sold it. The other comparison I make is the standard Scoob versus my 11 year old Corrado VR6, which in many respects is a better car.....the Scoob has grip and traction as standard, but, imo, has to be modified to control the understeer, the engine as standard is breathless and unwilling to rev...the VR6 comparison makes these faults all too apparent. I accept that view may not be shared on here....doesn't mean I don't deserve to post on here, or that I am a complete " tard ", whatever the hell that is! Suffice to say, I love the car now, and all thoughts of replacing it are long gone. Opinions vary though.

Chris L

"Gary - in my opinion more of an understeery sack of **** LOL, with crap brakes, and headlights, and handling"

LOL - that's why it got voted performance car of the decade

Image is everything when selling cars. Up until Subaru went rallying they had a reputation for building decent, solid, if slightly quirky cars that farmers loved (and still do) because they had fantastic 4WD systems that meant they really could go anywhere. I've done some off roading in a Forester - amazing car. The instructor said it was the next best thing to a Land Rover, which is high praise indeed.

However, to shift more cars, you need to change your image. This is the exact reason why Audi, Lancia, Mitsubishi, Skoda, Peugeot, Ford etc etc go (or went) rallying. The great thing with rallying is you can create a halo effect on the whole range. Rally cars also have the added bonus of looking vaguely like a road car (as opposed to F1).

The companies that have enjoyed most success from rallying are probably Audi, Lancia, Mitsubishi and Subaru. Peugeot and Ford especially,have, I think, missed an opportunity to really change their image. In Peugeot's case they have not really introduced a performance car to make the most of their success. The RS Focus was too little too late IMHO. Subaru and others made the point of linking their performance cars with the rally teams at a very early stage - with fantastic results.

I'd like to think I would have picked up on Subaru anyway (I like unusal cars), but there is no doubt, that the rallying added an awful lot to their image and brought the cars to my attention. A test drive sealed it

If you doubt the power of motorsport to sell cars, ask Porsche (22000+ victories for the 911 across the globe), Ferrari etc why they go racing.

Chris

wrxmania

At least that is more reasonable - the original assertion by David is tht the standard UK car is rubbish in comparison cars in general.

Crap lights, brakes etc etc have been all but resolved in newer model Imprezas from Bugs onto Blobs now. Remember that a 1998 classic or whatever has lights etc which are years old in design and WERE years old in design when on the car.

Things have moved on.

Red Man

Getting back to the original question.


I got into scooby ownership 3 years ago for three reasons:

JD Power results for Subaru
Rally heritage gave me comfort that Subaru were serious about AWD
Bang for the buck in a 4 door saloon could not be beaten

Whilst rally heritage alone was not enough, I may well have looked elsewhere without it.

So in may case, and maybe many others, the investment in SWRT, was a good move.

Vonzack

Price / performance for me, cheap quick car.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I agree that it is, so were the very first JDM's (1992).


But Nothing at the time could better it for the money and all round package.

timbo2000

Exact same reasons for me as Red Man.

As for the standard car debate, let's face it, it's a credit to the standard car that they are so easily modified with such little effort. Almost anything can be made to go just as well if you throw enough cash at it.

Futhermore, there are a lot of people on here who love their standard cars (myself included) that rightly take exception to being told that there car is sh1te in a post that isn't entitled "Read this if you think your car is cr@p"

Gus M

Yes

GaryScoobNCBR

just outta interest what mods have you got richard ?

ps - sorry for the thread hijack

Richard Askew

YHPM

Comper100

Haha you put your car through the same varried terrain and see just how "fragile" yours is, infact any car.

And its the same with football players being paid loads, the money in the sport has to go somewhere.

Either way Rallying has always influenced me so yes it did

Comper100

jjones

i am on about the engine and box.

mine doesn't have to be rebuilt every other week.

like to see a wrc engine on 100,000 miles without a rebuild.

Comper100

Trouble is there engines and boxes are built to much tighter tollerances, factors of safety etc, due to the nature of the competion to become more powerfull and yet light, there not really designed to last that long, unlike paris-dakar vehicles etc.

Spose its not fair to compare them really as they are totally different machines designed for two different jobs.

Beefy

I would imagine that like most cars in professional motorsport, rally cars are designed and built to finish the event they are competing in and thats about it. With all the efforts to increase performance and decrease weight they often dont finish at all of course (although its quite often down to driver error rather than unreliability).

Gary C

Good point, but again, if you drove it like the competition cars, it probably would need rebuilding each week.

The engine and box in the rally car are stronger, the just have a hell of a lot more to cope with, 500nm of torque for a start, repeated full power starts at each stage, maximum revs for much more of the time.

The reliablity of todays WRC cars is actually astounding, really.

reddishhhblue

fair play

chrome

LMFAO @ Wallis!!

I think guys if you compare a standard off the shelf UK scoob to David's car it WOULD be DIRE indeed

I bought mine as I knew there was tons of potential for improvement

standard car compared to everday box on wheels IS fast....
but with another 150 bhp+ (or double that in David;s case ) you KNOW it has to be totally sorted to be able to cope with that kind of power and not end up int he first hedge

my 2p

ps- if I had my time again I would start with a TypeR and then mod it to kingdom come

aceman_uk

During the younger years I ALWAYS lusted after a Sierra/Escort Cossie.

What do I end up with...YEP...A MY98 UK Turbo. It aint standard as it has the Full Prodrive WR Sport Pack and WOW...The Sound, Speed, LOOKS...Everything in fact is SUPERB.

The same can be said about EVO's COSSIES, and all other rally bred road car. Would you have bought these if werent for the rally pedigree especially of the Jap motors???

This is my first Scoob which WILL NOT b my last

Aceman

p.s. Chrome...I probably would go for a TYPE-R too and SUUUUPERCHarge it ...Nitrous etc etc etc...Seen 1 at a recent meet and hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....it was BOOOOOtiful!

prezaperve

You may laugh but it was Gran turismo that first turned me on to the Impreza.
So I supose it is connected to the rally car.

All hail G.T.

DarkStar66

Sorry to get back to the 'Bag of Sh!te' debate but...

I think David was overstating his case a bit and has realised that he's un-intentiontally insulted people with standard scoobys. That's probably why he's not defending his original point of view.

I chose the WRX for many of the reasons mentioned, ie, rally heritage, reliability, price. I think the reason you get so many 'bangs for bucks' is because Subaru concerntrated on making the mechanicals as good as possible for the money rather than making it look great in the showroom. I like that.

Looking at the long list of mods some of you guys have, the money you've spent on top of the cost of the basic 'bag of sh!te' would have probably bought you a Porsche with similar performance. I suppose it's the fun of choosing new mods for your car and experiencing the end result (or not in some cases ) that counts. But maybe you can loose touch with reality in the end.

Now when am I going to get that Prodrive BB?

micared

Think David stated his case in a perfectly reasonable manner....his opinion's the same as mine, just happens to be different to yours! No harm in that.
By the same token, you reckon that Scoobs are reliable...I disagree, but I worked for Toyota, and have owned several of their products..... everythings relative, including reliability.

David_Wallis

No more fool you.. I wouldnt drive a crash damaged car.. I bought it to fix and sell..

I had the 'cash' - not the promise of a loan.. at the time to buy a P1 and that what I was considering.

Nope I dont think so.
I dont need to compare it against anything, they are just crap.. How many people modify them.. a pretty high percentage compared to other sports cars IMHO..

They are that crap that the dealers sell upgrade packs for them..

I dont need to justify my reasoning.. oh and Im known for saying what I think.. but Ill try and explain.. and sorry its taken 12hrs to reply, but I have been working on my own car in the garage all day.. trying to improve on it..

Just to add Ive been in a lot more subarus than most people on the board I would expect..

Circa 100+ at a rough guess.

Lets start (assume my car 94uk.. as thats what I was effectively insulting..) WRXs are no better either..

Lights are crap.. Later ones not much better
they are slow, dont corner.
Security is pathetic
Paintwork is crapBrakes are ineffective.. so are the 4pots.. brembos are getting there.. but still poor..
wheels are crap.. 15" ffs.
interior creaks & rattles.
nissan micra seats.
steering wheel is awful.
radio is crap
wagon is noisy..
Did I mention they are slow and dont corner??

oh and GaryScoobNCBR

My 11,000 post top trump card beats your 156, my cars quicker, more modified so I win.. therefore you dont deserve to post here either...

LMFAO at somepeoples reaction to the comments about these **** cars..

Should call it warrantynet or scabbynet..

FYI though.. the cars I do like are the MY03STI's.. Im on the lookout for one cheap.. or a 03WRX wagon.. subaru really pulled their fingers out with these and they are well built and the interior is one thing that doesnt really need playing with.. other than the radio. I would ditch the engine though!

Toms WR1 is by far the nicest impreza I have sat in yet.. need to bug him to take me out in it

what would I be driving if it wasnt a scoob.. something that corners well (turbo'd 106 probably).. or something totally different like escort cossie thats still on my to own list.. would also consider an M5 as a run about if they keep dropping in price

David

MJW

It's a bit of a strange question really - if it wasn't for rallying we would all probably not be driving the turbocharged Impreza that we all know. So in effect we have all really bought an Impreza because it *is* a rally car, whether we admit it or not.

David_Wallis

top

LEGACYTURBS

I'm with Wallis on this one.
I seem to spend my life correcting the mistakes FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES couldn't be arsed to remedy.

Had an Sti v3 a bit ago this was a little better than the bog standard, but still crappy lights, brakes, interior, etc. . . Handling was also poor, given they are so 'uprated' next to the bog standard cars. Same old story: Turn on the heat, approch the bend, flip a coin to see if the front end wants to go straight on. If i wanted to flip a coin every time i came to a corner, i'd just drive my 911 every day :P

GaryScoobNCBR

So basically david, we're driving sacks of ****e, the best sack of ****e i've ever owned

and your driving a modified sack of ****e ?


i suppose i could have brought a low milage astra or vectra....sigh