Thats actually quite a good example Zippy.

If you buy something that wasn't designed for the country and you don't take the required steps in order to make it work properly in this country then the onerous is on you.

I agree that a dealer should have pointed this out but without anything in writing they could quite easily say they did tell you it needed higher rating fuel. It is a crappy state of afairs and you should have at least been asked the right questions but then your at the mercy of the dealer and whether they care what happens once its off the forecourt.

Where I live there is a high amount of import cars and I can't believe how some get away with bunging Tesco fuel in them. However, you see them for a bit and then the disappear usually never to be seen again due to engine failure.

Sounds a bit late now but if you bought the car with a 3rd party warranty and it blew up I'd say I'd used SUL and booster and chance my arm that they don't check. Or you could argue they had a duty of care to advise you on how to abide by their warranty stipulations - i.e. correct fuel. I can imagine how annoying it must be if they turn round and say well its your own fault.

An ex girlfriend bought a 16V golf ages ago that had done 120K miles but in great condition. Within a week the engine went pop and they had to replace the whole thing with a new one from VW. Not may people know but 16V golfs should really only be used with SUL due to there mapping from the fatherland.

My GF never used SUL and I imagine most before her didn't either. Could suggest that this was a factor in the engines demise irrespective of its mileage.

 

Picking up one or even two pistons, I can understand.
"I have the remains of 2 of the pistons in my office, both of the bores are badly scored and the turbo casing has a crack."
Why is the turbo casing cracked??? When did this happen and why?
Did you suffer two catostrophic events together? Unlikely.

You need an independant engineers report asap and you need someone who knows their bum from their elbow and not a dummy as employed by some warranty companies to refute claims.

Some of these cars seem to run OK on Optimax but if it was mine it would be Optimax plus NF plus Knock Link. You should have known that the vehicle needed 100 RON and the fact you did not may be the basis for a claim against the supplier of the vehicle. I do think you have a long up hill struggle and the chances of success are perhaps less than even but good luck with it.
Think with your head not your heart because clearly you feel an injustice and want a remedy. Check out the overall cost of getting this to court before you get locked into a fight that you later regret because it has cost money without a satisfactory result.

You may wish to talk to the Trading Standards Office to see if they have useful input.

As regards the garage conducting the service, you are probably on a total looser.
Get to the bottom of the "cracked turbo housing" and check what oil they use but on the information available I think you are wasting your time.

A total engine replacement is likely to be the cheapest option. I have been involved in this with an STi 9 in the last couple of weeks. Cost was £1500 all in but you would have existing charges for work to date and transport on top of that to whoever was going to do the work.
I know it is sickening and sorry i cannot be more helpful. Let us know how you get on.

 

The cracked turbo casing could be by a bit of the piston getting out through the exhaust piping and into the turbo, causing a jamming / burst etc.

If the turbine and / or compressor wheel has burst, a) the housing should contain it without cracking as it is a safety issue, b) the white smoke might also be from burning oil in the turbo area as the turbo unit is completely shafted if it has suffered a burst - it is not repairable in most cases IMO.

 

SueSidal you have personal mail.

David API

 

Sue Sidal, just out of interest, has your Speedo been converted to MPH?
Also, have you had a "de-limiter" fitted to negate the 112mph limiter that would have been on the Jap Spec car?

 

Interesting stuff again chaps - Zippy - Let's take your analogy of the TV set and apply it to my situation. Of course, in the circumstances you have presented, there would clearly be no comeback on the supplier. Let's say, you had bought the TV in England, from a Company that specialises in importing TV's from abroad, with the TV's having dual power 120V/240V. You take it home and plug it in and it blows up, so you take it back to the supplier. Upon investigation, the power was set to 120V, not 240V. It says in the manual that it is your responsibility to ensure that you use the correct power supply and the TV supplier points that out and says there's nothing he can do. What would you do then?
The fact that it has no warranty does not mean that I cannot sue the company that supplied it to me, it just makes it more difficult. In any case, the warranty would have been invalidated because I was using the wrong fuel.....that's simply stupid.
Apple/Harvey - Tiley's have intimated that the turbo problem was caused by the engine failure.
Harvey - I agree, I need a **** hot independant vehicle inspector and if you know one, please tell me. The AA aren't interested, not their bag. Good point about Trading Standards, so obvious it hadn't crossed my mind. I'll call them tomorrow. The claim is likely to be less than £5000, so I'll take it to the small claims court, that will substantially reduce the cost.
EddScott - Thanks for your input.
Good stuff but I still have no definitive answers on this.
API Dave - I'll check my mail and get back asap.
Thanks again everyone.

 

Sorry Turbo Steve - missed you in the melee.
Speedo is MPH only, vehicle has been derestricted.
What are you thinking?

 

Sue,

While i think that the import dealer should not have to remap the car as a matter of course, I believe in that case they should have told you as a normal member of the public that it requires special attention (i.e putting octane booster in).

If you buy an item of clothing you expect a 'care instructions' label and when you buy a UK car you get a service manual telling you how to look after it. As a 'normal' person who may not be technically minded you were not to know about the special requirements and therefore i believe the retailer had a duty to tell you.

You simply can not run a JDM car on UK fuel and expect the car to last unless you either use octane booster (to bring it up to 100 RON) or get a remap for UK fuel. I dont think there is any disagreement on this fact from those in the know.

 

Thanks Eagle 7, my thoughts entirely.

 

I Have only been on SN since Jan 2003 but within the first 2-3 days even I new that if you have a jdm car it Must be run on oct booster with either sul or optimax and preferably have a re map. Sue how long have you been on SN ?

regards

John

 

Sue, it will be your word against theirs.If you pursue this in the small claims court you can bet money that they will have changed their policy and now explain the need for a re-map or Octane booster to any new customers.

They will then say they 'TOLD YOU ABOUT IT' and you didnt take the advice.

Just because a company imports specialist high performance cars to the UK doesnt make them specialists in understanding them.

All they see is, Nice car £28K UK price/ Import Buy price = £23K / sell price to UK buyer £26K = £3K profit = Happy days.

Take Harveys advice before you pursue them in court (He has experiance) and weigh up the the costs before you do so.

Zippy

 

Unfortunately Sue I too am in complete agreement with Zippy, as I'm sure are most members that are on this board, it's just he's the only one brave enough to be vocal about it.

The trouble is with this board is the very fickle nature of it's members, one day you have someone on here complaining that they bought a 2nd hand Scoob off someone and it went pop 6 hours later, result; The board tell them to take it back, must've been fecked when you bought it. Next day there is someone who is telling you they sold a scoob only to have the new owner bringing it back cos it went pop 6 hours later, result; Bloke must have been razzing the thing to death or put the wrong fuel in it, tell him to **** off.

Don't read too much into what people say they will almost always sympathise with the topic starter.

Don't get me wrong, I totally 100% sympathise with you, it's ****, but the route you are trying to go down can only cost you money, you do not have even the tiniest hope in hell of getting anywhere.


Your line of reasoning is that they should have remapped the car for the UK, this is complete b0llocks.

1. There is no way on earth an Importer would have the means or technoligy to remap the latest Subaru at that time, and to do this safely at that. In fact I would challenge you to find me 5 Official Subaru Dealers in the UK that are capable of remapping a 2004 JDM STi to run on UK fuel.

2. I would not want my car remapped for UK fuel (and I'm sure most JDM Import owners would echo the same). Having your car remapped for UK fuel could mean as much as a 30bhp loss in power. For me I would be importing a new Jap Scoob for the performance (and no other reason), for example the Spec C. I would be pretty pissed if it ended up dulled down.


The importer is exactly that, they are an importer. They deal with importing. They didn't build the car, they will have little or no technical no how as regards the car. If the car electricuted you 3 days after you bought it, would that be there fault to? No, because they didn't make it. Subaru built it and it is down to them, however the car you have was not designed by Subaru to be used in this country ...... All the importer has done is provide you with a service, ie imported a car for you. How you use it is ultimately your responsibilty.


Now add this to the equation. It is not uncommon for UK 2001 STi's to go pop either, from poor quality fuel or failing MAFs or oil starvation etc etc. It is assumed that your engine has gone pop because you have been running UK grade fuel in it, however, your MAF could've just as easily failed/be failing. The minute the words "Oh but the UK ones do that too" is mentioned you aint got no chance of getting anywhere.


BTW, I too drive a JDM STi which I throughly(sp?) researched before buying, in fact the very first thing I fitted woz a knocklink. And I'm fully aware and in full acceptance of the risks, when I first got it I woried everyday about the engine going pop and thought of attempting to make somebody else accountable for a risk that I had knowingly taken wouldn't even cross my mind for a second.



To summise, I do sympathise and this is not a personal attack. But continuing down this course of action is only going to cause you more grief and cost you more money. You would be much better off biting the bullet, accepting the fact that buying a JDM woz probably not the best decision you've ever made and just getting on with it.

 

I'm with Zhastaph. Going to court will just cause you grief and expense.

I don't agree that getting it remapped has to cost you 30bhp, though. That really depends on the mapper. IN many instances, you'll find a remap gives you EXTRA power, not less, even on the standard STi. It will certainly improve it's driveability if your mapper is any good.

Sue Sidal, you say you've had it derestricted?

This bothers me: You're taking a car that has software that was never designed to do more than 112mph, and driving it above 112mph? That means your probably going to hit parts of the maps that may never even have been tested? So technically, you're driving a modified car, which means most mechanics would say "not my fault".

At 115mph, especially for any length of time, your fuelling is going to need to be nice and rich to try and keep cylinder and piston temperatures down: fairly high engine load (from the drivetrain if nothing else, let alone aerodynamics) and given that it's an STi probably high revs. If the fuelling was already "barely adequate" then things are going to get hot in there.

I'm not saying this is definitely the reason, but that there could be (and are) a whole host of reasons why these things go pop. As mentioned, the UK models have been proven to have a few nasty niggles, which may be yet ANOTHER contributing factor.

You are only really going to find out by rebuilding your engine exactly the same, and then monitoring everything in the same conditions to see what starts looking unhealthy. And even then you may never know.....it still could have been a manufacturing defect in that piston and you were just bloody unlucky (though given that this is an STi I find this less than likely).

I would really give it some serious thought about following the legal route:
You're already shouldered with the cost of the engine. I'd be more likely to get back to your importer, and ask if they can source you some cheap parts, given what's happened.


Sorry to hear about your bad luck, mate. Maybe this could be the path to moddington, though: after all, now you've got a good excuse for a mega engine build, a bigger turbo and chuck in a fuel pump, injectors and the remap you're going to get anyway and BINGO uber-fast scoob!

 

Not that it is particulalry relevant, just to justify this comment, I'm talking in terms of taking a JDM spec car and remapping it to be safe on UK fuel and not applying a performance map, though admitedly 30 bhp poss is a possibly touch ott


Yes, this is a very good point. JDM's are speed limited to 112mph they will not have tested the car to handle 'cruising' along at speeds in excess of this where the car can be running on sustained part throttle with high engine load causing under bonnet temps to soar.

 

zhastaph.......sorry, wasn't trying to draw an argument, just felt that the comment needed qualifying a little better

Am I being Nit Picky?

 

Chaps: Oh alright then, I'll just give up and shell out the best part of five grand and take it on the chin. Not a farking chance lads. I know they make better cars than us, bit where would this country be if Winston has said to his cabinet "Look chums, this Hitler chap is a bit of a problem, I don't think there's much chance of us winning this war. so why don't we just give in?" There's a principle involved here and I've made that clear in earlier postings. Is there no-one out there who will pick up the chalice of honour and support me in my quest? (Hamlet, Act 4 Scene 5)......You know what I mean, we've had all the negatives about this situation - Lets have some positives!!! Come on you silent majority, GET VOCAL!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm sure almost all of us would love to say "yes, you really do have a good case here and you stand every chance of winning this one" but the vast majority of opinions indicate otherwise?
I for one, would love to see you take on the importer and get a result. I would also hate to see you left with a solicitors bill and still a car with no engine!
Principles are to be admired and to be fought for, but in this day and age they all too often come with a price!
I really do wish the matter is finally settled amicably.
JohnD

 

I would have to agree with the majority,that you probably wont get anywhere pursuing a claim.

Have you tried taking any legal advice,spoken to trading standards,or citzens advice?

Perhaps you could get someone to phone the dealer you got the car from,pretend that you are interested in an STi,and ask them the question (along with all the others) on what fuel to use.

I speak to alot of car dealers on a regular basis and most dont know of octans boost etc.
I realy hope there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I'm afraid I'm one of the negative ones - knowingly buying a JDM needs some research beforehand, as does buying any product or service not originally destined for the UK to check on its suitability.
It may appear to be cheaper than the equivalent UK item, but sometimes there is a sting in the tail.

However, I've only just picked up the bit about having a recent service and then kaboom. Its a scenario that often gets posted about on SN and one that is allegedly down to incorrect oil changes and/or overfilling.
Can you get Tileys to confirm how they do changes?

Get an independent examination and see if they pick up any bearing damage from being starved rather than a holed piston from det.
It'll still be a job to prove negligence though.
I'm very surprised that after all the services they have carried out, that they have never offered advice about keeping a JDM together, as they must see their fair share of problems.

Nick