WRX PPP'd but seems slow
22 June 2004, 11:02 PM
#32
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Yep, big difference in performance when my PPP was fitted at the 1K service.
Running just over 18PSI in the higher gears.
Running just over 18PSI in the higher gears.
22 June 2004, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteyisback
I've been to too many rolling road days and seen PPP'd Wrx's and Sti's on the rollers fall way short of there supposed power figures. I have been told by my local dealer that the poor power figures are down to "heatsoak" which i know can account for some power loss but surely not to the extent that i have seen and others on here have reported.
I ended up decating and Tek3 remapping my new WRX and have been blown away by the difference in performance, it's like night and day.
I had the car on a rolling road about 4 months after the work as well and it touched the 280bhp mark.....gr8 stuff.
All the work cost me a total of £1500 and that included a full, new H&S stainless steel lifetime guarantee exhaust with my own design tailpipe, greenstuff panel filter and Tek3 remap...all the work was done by Extreme Scoobies and I can't think of a single negative comment to make regarding the whole experience. My car now growls properly and has the bite to match the bark!
I ended up decating and Tek3 remapping my new WRX and have been blown away by the difference in performance, it's like night and day.
I had the car on a rolling road about 4 months after the work as well and it touched the 280bhp mark.....gr8 stuff.
All the work cost me a total of £1500 and that included a full, new H&S stainless steel lifetime guarantee exhaust with my own design tailpipe, greenstuff panel filter and Tek3 remap...all the work was done by Extreme Scoobies and I can't think of a single negative comment to make regarding the whole experience. My car now growls properly and has the bite to match the bark!
Totally agree with the comments above mate. Had the very same mods and tek 3 done to my MY04 WRX. Performance is mind blowing to standard, turbo spools up so quickly, and the rev counter does not take long to reach the top in 1st,2nd,3rd gear. Overtaking in 4rth now is so possible from around 60mph. Going on the RR in august so curious to see the results, hope they are similar to yourself. Mine's is running 1.24 bar.
been in two PPP WRXs and was fairly impressed compared to the standard WRX. On track however i was following behind, and there was very little in it, only pulled a car length in front. However now with the tek 3 and decat i think personally it would be the opposite way around, it just feels much quicker.
When i had it done, on the drive home was not too impressed, but as the miles have climbed it does feel quicker, the comment earlier about having to rag it a little to tell the ECU how you like to drive maybe have some truth in it.
anyway in total its cost me £1020. well chuffed.
Paul
23 June 2004, 12:25 AM
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Whitey, totally agree mate
but I have had several problems since i lost my warranty
with the new ppp ( 260bhp rather than the old 240bhp ) I think I might be go with the ppp
I don't understand people getting a ppp then putting on a bleed valve - if you want to push your car for what you can get ( safely) go for a tek3 etc and loes the warranty but why pay all that extra money for a pro drive kit just to throw away the warranty on a bleed valve or a back box.. nout stanger than folk
edited to say I get about 1.3 bar on the defis and 1.37 bar peak on the psi 3
last time I had it rolling roaded I had 260bhp and 270 lbs, but thats a powerstation reading which said the car was 215 std
but I have had several problems since i lost my warranty
with the new ppp ( 260bhp rather than the old 240bhp ) I think I might be go with the ppp
I don't understand people getting a ppp then putting on a bleed valve - if you want to push your car for what you can get ( safely) go for a tek3 etc and loes the warranty but why pay all that extra money for a pro drive kit just to throw away the warranty on a bleed valve or a back box.. nout stanger than folk
edited to say I get about 1.3 bar on the defis and 1.37 bar peak on the psi 3
last time I had it rolling roaded I had 260bhp and 270 lbs, but thats a powerstation reading which said the car was 215 std
Last edited by WRX_Rich; 23 June 2004 at 12:32 AM.
23 June 2004, 01:04 AM
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The first few minutes of driving my WRX03 PPP was 'oh dear, not the big transformation I was expecting!' I have now done 11k and am very pleased with the PPP. I suggest driving your car for at least 200 miles, and i'm sure it will feel better. Also, try sitting in the passenger seat and let someone else drive, and feel that strong torque!
Of course, I would love more and more power, but I have an illness called NGE, short for 'Never get enough', and I do have to keep an eye on this illness.
Of course, I would love more and more power, but I have an illness called NGE, short for 'Never get enough', and I do have to keep an eye on this illness.
23 June 2004, 08:31 AM
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Welcome to Snet Skubyman.
PPP is the Prodrive Performance Pack. On the WRX it boosts power to 261BHP and also increases the torque, whilst retaining the 3 year warranty.
Well worth the £1600 IMO.
Dan
PPP is the Prodrive Performance Pack. On the WRX it boosts power to 261BHP and also increases the torque, whilst retaining the 3 year warranty.
Well worth the £1600 IMO.
Dan
23 June 2004, 09:51 AM
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Butty, if you were at the power engineering RR day last month then i remember talking to you and the WRX in question was mine. It was refreshing to see a PPPd one make and even exceed the quoted figures for a change!!!
Neil.
Neil.
23 June 2004, 10:06 AM
#41
Hi Neil 
With the cooler weather today, I've had some extra boost than quoted above.
2nd & 3rd were peaking at 18.5 psi but 4th & 5th were at an alarming 19.5 psi.
this is 1.32 bar which sounds a bit to high.
The boost gauge is an SPA one, picking up boost off one of the inlet manifold runners, sampling over an average of 1 second.
I'll have to see what delta dash sees through the MAP to confirm, but that seems a bit OTT.
Nick
With the cooler weather today, I've had some extra boost than quoted above.
2nd & 3rd were peaking at 18.5 psi but 4th & 5th were at an alarming 19.5 psi.
this is 1.32 bar which sounds a bit to high.
The boost gauge is an SPA one, picking up boost off one of the inlet manifold runners, sampling over an average of 1 second.
I'll have to see what delta dash sees through the MAP to confirm, but that seems a bit OTT.
Nick
23 June 2004, 12:23 PM
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I may be completely wrong as I have limited technical knowledge but the whole problem with the PPP is that it is a 'standard' ECU remap package and IS NOT TAILORED TO THE CAR itself.
This is important because cars coming off the production line all produce different power (fact). I remember this well with motorbikes too, the early fireblades were dynoed anywhere between 105 and 125 bhp - which makes a HUGE difference on a light bike.
So, the conclusion is that something like TEK 3 actually looks at how your particular car is behaving and then plans the remap to suit. A bolt on PPP remap cannot work for all cars as they have differing power outputs from new so it will work for some and not for others.
I have a MY03 WRX with TEK 3 and full H&S decat.
curiously, I have found that the more I drive - let's call it enthusiastically... the faster it has become whereas when I bought it (secondhand) I was not that impressed. I suffer from NGE too....
so, does enthusiastically driving the car change the power and responsiveness as the ECU learns whatcha like?
Can anyone else comment on the above with some expert knowledge!
This is important because cars coming off the production line all produce different power (fact). I remember this well with motorbikes too, the early fireblades were dynoed anywhere between 105 and 125 bhp - which makes a HUGE difference on a light bike.
So, the conclusion is that something like TEK 3 actually looks at how your particular car is behaving and then plans the remap to suit. A bolt on PPP remap cannot work for all cars as they have differing power outputs from new so it will work for some and not for others.
I have a MY03 WRX with TEK 3 and full H&S decat.
curiously, I have found that the more I drive - let's call it enthusiastically... the faster it has become whereas when I bought it (secondhand) I was not that impressed. I suffer from NGE too....
so, does enthusiastically driving the car change the power and responsiveness as the ECU learns whatcha like?
Can anyone else comment on the above with some expert knowledge!
23 June 2004, 12:33 PM
#43
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tek 3 and h&S
What did you pay for the tek3 and H&S systems
Originally Posted by Wrexy27
I may be completely wrong as I have limited technical knowledge but the whole problem with the PPP is that it is a 'standard' ECU remap package and IS NOT TAILORED TO THE CAR itself.
This is important because cars coming off the production line all produce different power (fact). I remember this well with motorbikes too, the early fireblades were dynoed anywhere between 105 and 125 bhp - which makes a HUGE difference on a light bike.
So, the conclusion is that something like TEK 3 actually looks at how your particular car is behaving and then plans the remap to suit. A bolt on PPP remap cannot work for all cars as they have differing power outputs from new so it will work for some and not for others.
I have a MY03 WRX with TEK 3 and full H&S decat.
curiously, I have found that the more I drive - let's call it enthusiastically... the faster it has become whereas when I bought it (secondhand) I was not that impressed. I suffer from NGE too....
so, does enthusiastically driving the car change the power and responsiveness as the ECU learns whatcha like?
Can anyone else comment on the above with some expert knowledge!
This is important because cars coming off the production line all produce different power (fact). I remember this well with motorbikes too, the early fireblades were dynoed anywhere between 105 and 125 bhp - which makes a HUGE difference on a light bike.
So, the conclusion is that something like TEK 3 actually looks at how your particular car is behaving and then plans the remap to suit. A bolt on PPP remap cannot work for all cars as they have differing power outputs from new so it will work for some and not for others.
I have a MY03 WRX with TEK 3 and full H&S decat.
curiously, I have found that the more I drive - let's call it enthusiastically... the faster it has become whereas when I bought it (secondhand) I was not that impressed. I suffer from NGE too....
so, does enthusiastically driving the car change the power and responsiveness as the ECU learns whatcha like?
Can anyone else comment on the above with some expert knowledge!
23 June 2004, 12:43 PM
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bought car with them already fitted but I think it was something like 1000 plus a bit? 600 or so for remap plus all the separate parts of the full zorst system. it was done by xtreme scoobs who seem very helpful everytime I've talked to them and the car is great. in fact about to upgrade the brakes.... at xtreme.
23 June 2004, 01:06 PM
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Wrexy, do you know what power your getting? as i priced up a 3" system from H&S yesterday + tek 3.....
As mine is running 250+ with just a panel filter im hoping that 300 is possible, with the addition of some good hosing too.
Cheers,
Neil.
As mine is running 250+ with just a panel filter im hoping that 300 is possible, with the addition of some good hosing too.
Cheers,
Neil.
23 June 2004, 01:48 PM
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web address
cheers for that but do u have a web address or contact details
thanks
thanks
Originally Posted by Wrexy27
bought car with them already fitted but I think it was something like 1000 plus a bit? 600 or so for remap plus all the separate parts of the full zorst system. it was done by xtreme scoobs who seem very helpful everytime I've talked to them and the car is great. in fact about to upgrade the brakes.... at xtreme.
23 June 2004, 02:16 PM
#47
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Thanks for all the replies and interest. I will stick with it for another month or so and see if it improves.
One other question, I have been running it on Esso super unleaded (97RON) from my local petrol station but when away from home and needing to fill up I have found it difficult to locate super unleaded.
What octane rating are Shell Optimax and BP Ultimate ? Is it possible to get 98RON unleaded on a forecourt as recommended inside the petrol flap or is that via an octane booster only ?
Gaz.
One other question, I have been running it on Esso super unleaded (97RON) from my local petrol station but when away from home and needing to fill up I have found it difficult to locate super unleaded.
What octane rating are Shell Optimax and BP Ultimate ? Is it possible to get 98RON unleaded on a forecourt as recommended inside the petrol flap or is that via an octane booster only ?
Gaz.
23 June 2004, 02:38 PM
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Neilo : what xtreme do is give you an estimate based on timed acceleration through the gears and I am told that they said 285bhp. I haven't had it dynoed. I would hazard a guess at somewhere between 265-285 based on other cars I've driven. so not far off. Obviously, each day's temperature and (say) aircon on or off all has an effect. On a hot day I feel way down on power for example.
pxr: I think the web address is extremescoobies.co.uk do a google search. it is in Boreham Essex near Chelmsford.
Gazboth: welcome to the most talked about subject on snet! I use optimax or in emergencies BP ultimate. The general view is that optimax is 98 RON or even more depending on who you ask, and BP U is 97. Don't use 95 RON at all and avoid supermarket super.
good luck and have fun.
BTW if I haven't already said, the full H&S system sounds just fantastic. I never listen to stereo anymore just the growl...
pxr: I think the web address is extremescoobies.co.uk do a google search. it is in Boreham Essex near Chelmsford.
Gazboth: welcome to the most talked about subject on snet! I use optimax or in emergencies BP ultimate. The general view is that optimax is 98 RON or even more depending on who you ask, and BP U is 97. Don't use 95 RON at all and avoid supermarket super.
good luck and have fun.
BTW if I haven't already said, the full H&S system sounds just fantastic. I never listen to stereo anymore just the growl...
06 July 2004, 12:18 PM
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Well, i thought i'd fish this thread out.
Put my car on the PowerStation rollers last weekend, it made 244bhp and 238 (i think) lbft torque.
So there's 16 ponies missing in action. But then that's assuming of course that PS's reading is accurate. I've heard their RR can be a little stingy on bhp figures with 4wd cars.
On the day there were a few dodgy results - people with RWD and 4WD cars missing bhp, people with FWD cars getting bang on results.
I'll say again, that my old bugeye (non ppp - just half decatted and 1.2bar boost) could NOT keep up with my current car - 04 ppp's WRX. The 04 is clearly quicker, it just pulls harder. But the results - 244bhp suggest it's about the same as my old one, totally wrong (imho).
Anyone have any thoughts/experience on PowerStation's bhp figures? Generally accurate or a bit stingy?
People in this thread seem to have had their cars rolling roaded - where have you run your car to get those figures?
tia
PS - I'm tempted to throw on an afterburner vortex (not too fussed about the noise, the neighbours already hate me), see if we cant open up the exhaust a little more.
Put my car on the PowerStation rollers last weekend, it made 244bhp and 238 (i think) lbft torque.
So there's 16 ponies missing in action. But then that's assuming of course that PS's reading is accurate. I've heard their RR can be a little stingy on bhp figures with 4wd cars.
On the day there were a few dodgy results - people with RWD and 4WD cars missing bhp, people with FWD cars getting bang on results.
I'll say again, that my old bugeye (non ppp - just half decatted and 1.2bar boost) could NOT keep up with my current car - 04 ppp's WRX. The 04 is clearly quicker, it just pulls harder. But the results - 244bhp suggest it's about the same as my old one, totally wrong (imho).
Anyone have any thoughts/experience on PowerStation's bhp figures? Generally accurate or a bit stingy?
People in this thread seem to have had their cars rolling roaded - where have you run your car to get those figures?
tia
PS - I'm tempted to throw on an afterburner vortex (not too fussed about the noise, the neighbours already hate me), see if we cant open up the exhaust a little more.
06 July 2004, 12:21 PM
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PPS - I ran the car twice - first time was within 30 mins of arriving and the car was damn hot (just blasted down the M5 and then sat in Cheltenham traffic very lost).
2nd time car was a bit cooler but still warm so they watersprayed the ic.
1st run 241 bhp
2nd run 244 bhp.
Oh yes, and strangely i lost another 10 bhp through transmission loss on the 2nd run. Funny, i dont recall changing the car's drivetrain or g/box between both run's. Fishy imo.
2nd time car was a bit cooler but still warm so they watersprayed the ic.
1st run 241 bhp
2nd run 244 bhp.
Oh yes, and strangely i lost another 10 bhp through transmission loss on the 2nd run. Funny, i dont recall changing the car's drivetrain or g/box between both run's. Fishy imo.
06 July 2004, 12:34 PM
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You've also got to take into account air temperature, humidity etc.....
I was always advised not to run a Turbo car on rollers as the fan they use cant replicate the amount of airflow you get when a cars moving.
Also know of a few cars that have blown up on the rollers
The only rolling road that I've been truly impressed with was I&N's test and development one....
I was always advised not to run a Turbo car on rollers as the fan they use cant replicate the amount of airflow you get when a cars moving.
Also know of a few cars that have blown up on the rollers
The only rolling road that I've been truly impressed with was I&N's test and development one....
06 July 2004, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasoon
the fan they use cant replicate the amount of airflow you get when a cars moving.
06 July 2004, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasoon
how about fitting an ic spray Merlin?
I've actually got some hoses and an sti spray nozzle lying about, was going to run it off the washer jet pump but i couldnt be arsed and i doubt the pump is strong enough.
The 03-04 scoop being bigger is a major bonus, the bugeye scoop was way too small & heat = bad = chaps in crap cars pulling away from me.
06 July 2004, 02:05 PM
#56
Originally Posted by merlin71
PPS - I ran the car twice - first time was within 30 mins of arriving and the car was damn hot (just blasted down the M5 and then sat in Cheltenham traffic very lost).
2nd time car was a bit cooler but still warm so they watersprayed the ic.
1st run 241 bhp
2nd run 244 bhp.
Oh yes, and strangely i lost another 10 bhp through transmission loss on the 2nd run. Funny, i dont recall changing the car's drivetrain or g/box between both run's. Fishy imo.
2nd time car was a bit cooler but still warm so they watersprayed the ic.
1st run 241 bhp
2nd run 244 bhp.
Oh yes, and strangely i lost another 10 bhp through transmission loss on the 2nd run. Funny, i dont recall changing the car's drivetrain or g/box between both run's. Fishy imo.
Did you get a power at wheels figure? This can be a bit more indicative.
Nick
06 July 2004, 02:17 PM
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80 bhp transmission loss - 90 bhp on the 2nd run! Shocking.
rofl, scoobies - got to love that tranny loss, still i'd rather that than FWD or RWD.
rofl, scoobies - got to love that tranny loss, still i'd rather that than FWD or RWD.
Last edited by merlin71; 06 July 2004 at 02:23 PM.
06 July 2004, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by merlin71
PPS - I ran the car twice - first time was within 30 mins of arriving and the car was damn hot (just blasted down the M5 and then sat in Cheltenham traffic very lost).
2nd time car was a bit cooler but still warm so they watersprayed the ic.
1st run 241 bhp
2nd run 244 bhp.
Oh yes, and strangely i lost another 10 bhp through transmission loss on the 2nd run. Funny, i dont recall changing the car's drivetrain or g/box between both run's. Fishy imo.
2nd time car was a bit cooler but still warm so they watersprayed the ic.
1st run 241 bhp
2nd run 244 bhp.
Oh yes, and strangely i lost another 10 bhp through transmission loss on the 2nd run. Funny, i dont recall changing the car's drivetrain or g/box between both run's. Fishy imo.
06 July 2004, 04:14 PM
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You should see the size of the fan (and the airconditioned cell) that G-Force use! The fan must be at least 4ft in diameter .....
Try here - Proper Dyno
Try here - Proper Dyno
06 July 2004, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMark
You should see the size of the fan (and the airconditioned cell) that G-Force use! The fan must be at least 4ft in diameter .....
Try here - Proper Dyno
Try here - Proper Dyno