ajm

Lets try and regain some perspective here. Those of us advocating parental control are not suggesting that parents should mount a 24hr guard over their kids or indeed that kids cannot still have accidents.

The reason we have taken the line we have in this thread is because the immediate focus was put on the cars, the design of cars, the speed and the driver as factors of the accident almost inferring the accident itself was an accepted given.

We are merely trying to present the notion that whilst these may be factors affecting the outcome of the accident, they are not causes.

Like it or not, the main causal factors in these types of accidents (where kids run randomly into traffic) can be found much closer to home and whilst it may be valid to discuss how the seriousness of the accident could have been affected (by car design etc.) it is also important to discuss how it may have been prevented.

Old_Fart

Bollox. It was an accident. Adults get run over as they cross the street whilst distracted too. Americans are forever being struck by busses and taxi's in London.
You can't remove all likelyhood of someone wandering into the road, no matter how much training they recieve. You *can* however minimise the damage they will suffer by removing image/ego enhancing bolt on tack from cars. Bull bars have no place on road cars in the United Kingdom, they serve no practical purpose.
Cman

Diablo

Tell that to the court when the driver gets hammered for an "accident"

But more kids do. People get injured for all reasons, usually related to stupidity.

Americans, says it all. Your point is ?

[qote]You can't remove all likelyhood of someone wandering into the road, no matter how much training they recieve. You *can* however minimise the damage they will suffer by removing image/ego enhancing bolt on tack from cars. [/quote] Agreed, you can't remove it completely. But you can minimise the risk further by making damn sure they understand and accept the consequences. Contrary to (apparently) popular belief, young kids have a greater understanding that many parents (appear) to realise. Surely its better to work to avoiding the collision in the first place than just accept it and make cars less damaging, although that is clearly important as well.

I'll agree with you on that one

Diablo

Tiggs,

I did some stupid things, for sure. But I understood the consequences and entered into what I did with open eyes.

Maybe Wurzel and I were just of above average intelligence

And no, I've never come close to being run over. Nearly killed myself on bikes, in cars, whatever, but those were accepted risks.

D

Leslie

ajm is absolutely right. Traffic awareness by pedestrians of all ages is getting noticeably worse these days. There used to be proper education about taking care crossing roads etc but nothing seems to be mentioned now. Pedestrians treat roads as though they have right of way and are quite likely to step in front of you at any time and often without even looking first.

There is no reason why a 10 year old is not clever enough to realise about road safety from his own point of view if he has been educated properly in the first place.

It shows that there is a good reason for speed limits in built up areas too of course.

Les

ajm

Bollox to you too!

No one is arguing it wasn't an accident. Its just that it MAY have been preventable had the kid been more aware, the parent more in control etc.

It MAY have been preventable.

Again, no one is arguing that you can remove all likelihood of someone wandering into the road. However, you CAN minimise the chances of it happening in the first place by educating children and taking proper responsibility for them.

Old_Fart

Yes, all these may's and may nots are all very well and help pass the time when you are bored. Ultimately though, accidents happen and some peoples taste in cars and accesories *will* increase the damage caused in accidents...and that is what the original post was about.
C

Old_Fart

I've minimised the risks to my children by living in an area too poor to afford X5's BTW. Most of the rusty old Renaults 'round our way have impact absorbing rust crumple zones...far more fragile than me kids bodies.
Cman

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

@Tiggs

I am alive because of luck and a few good judgments, I should by allrights be dead a few times over by now but I ain't and pretty glad about it.

However I do asses the potential risks before doing something stupid and so far have come out on top, but where it comes to roads and cars I don't even bother contemplating dicking about.

juan

Are you serious?
I've never come anywhere near close to being knocked over, or knocking someone else over or anything at any age. Its fairly simple. You look out for yourself. You concentrate on what you're doing. I pay attention. If you think about it you can see why it works. I'm not saying its a guarantee that nothing will happen but it gives you a better chance of avoiding accidents.

In the same way I don't eat ice cream while driving. These are the n0bs@cks who are much more likely to knock kids over when they run in the road but no-one could seem to comprehend this when we discussed it a month or two back. Everyone just thought it was clever to be on the phone and eating your dinner while driving around.


Whilst I was perfectly capable of walking around roads age 6 I will concede that there were a lot less cars around those days and people weren't in such a hurry or so self obsessed.

ajm

What gets me is how magnanimous some of you parents are when their kids are safe:

"oh accidents happen"
"you can't wrap them in cotton wool"
"You can't apportion blame"
"kids will be kids"
etc.
etc.

Then when their child gets knocked down rational goes out the window and its:

"if he was going at zero mph then my child wouldn't have been hit"
"if he didn't have to fit bull bars on his chelsea tractor then my child would have been less injured"

All we are saying is that ultimately responsibility for your childs safety lies at YOUR doorstep.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

@ajm I hope your flame suit fits snuggly

juan

well I've stubbed my toe once or twice and had a few twisted ankles on the footie pitch etc. but no nothing serious. Never broken a bone, never needed hospital treatment etc. and so far have never come too close to having a road accident either as a pedestrian, cyclist or driver. I don't try and do other things whilst I'm driving. My task has 100% of my attention. I don't drive up peoples' ***** etc. because I can see what the consequences may be if they brake hard suddenly. Makes me laugh when people come on here and moan that the person in front of them brake tested them and they ran into the back of them.

I'm aware of kids and adults and cyclists and crap drivers etc. (If its possible to see them) and hopefully I can do my best to avoid any incidents. Obviously if they choose to launch themselves at me as I draw alongside there isn't much I can do. Not saying I'm infallible just that a bit of common sense and paying attention increases your chances of survival considerably rather than thinking its clever to do other stuff whilst driving around, or run across the road without looking.

I get some of that 'autopilot' mode stuff but I'm still aware of whats going on around me as I'm not concentrating on any other task.

The one time I walked down the gutter instead of the pavement aged 6 word got back to my parents and I got whipped with a curtain rail. That was enough to make me not do taht again Bring back corporal punishment I say. Country has gone flippin soft and so have its kids and their parents.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

B20 it is not a case of keeping concentration 100% of the time it is a simple fact that humans need to realise cars hurt when they hit you and a human will always come off worse against a car, it aint rocket science to work that out and if you only teach this one thing to your kids then they will live a lot longer.

ajm

B2Z I appreciate that accidents still happen despite best endeavours, no one is denying that. It just amazes me how the words "I am responsible for my child's safety" stick in your throat!

ajm

Of course it does! - afterall I am responsible for my own safety!

juan

aren't we all?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

And indeed everyone elses apparently!!!!!!!

ajm

They'll thank me in the long run!

(well, maybe not... there's no pleasing some people! )

Old_Fart

And we parents with children are saying to the bullbar fitted 4X4 masses that they should accept additional responsibility for the additional damages they cause through willfull modifications to the cars standard spec that make it a more dangerous vehicle
Cman

sherlocks

I know if I'd be rash enough to run into the road as a young 'un I'd get a right ear bashing from my parents on top of any injuries I might have sustained from passing vehicles. Then again, I knew all about tufty and the green cross code and even more about the wrath of my dad for being stupid.

juan

agree 100%


agree 100% and experienced the wrath. Doesn't half make you think next time! I'm afraid it works much better than trying to explain the dangers to them as they can't comprehend that 100% at that age.

Leslie

Of course children are likely to lose concentration at any time, but if they have had it dinned into them that roads are dangerous and not to be run onto without looking first then at least there is a better chance that they might think twice before doing it. We can all get it wrong at times and one of the things I use to teach when I was instructing is that anyone can make a stupid mistake, even the instructor!

If a child is going to run into the road without looking due to lack of attention then that is what is going to happen and we should be aware of that possibility even though sometimes it might not be possible to avoid the accident. I still say that positive road safety education will reduce the likelihood of that happening.

Those idiots who feel they have to have bull bars in an effort to impress everyone else deserve to be "put down"

Les

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know where I can get a set of bullbars for my Impreza so if I hit some stooopid kid I don't damage the tin foil bonnet?

I personally can not see what the big deal is with them you lot are making, they are only dangerous if you hit something or get hit by them, just don't get hit by them then there is no problem is there. I had them on my landrover wowbetide anyone that gets in the way of a 110 defender with bull bars

speedking

AIUI we do! If a road, e.g. a country lane, has no footway, then you do not have the right to run over anyone walking along that road.

Highway code

146 Take extra care at junctions. You should watch out for pedestrians as they are not always easy to see; watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way.

but

4 Young children should not be out alone on the pavement or road (see Rule 7). When taking children out, walk between them and the traffic and hold their hands firmly.

How young is young