Brendan Hughes

Prodrive Performance *****?

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

LMFAO Brendan

scoobynutta555

Greasemonkey

I simply haven't got the time or the inclanation for the IM mouthpiece comments you seem to spew.

Believe what you want. At the end of the day I'm a paying customer, if it makes you feel good about yourself so be it. One point i feel i have to raise, I wasn't suggesting that 'nerds', as you call the people who pay your wages, want a rally replica, only something that measures up to the success of the rally car.

And IM knowing their market, that's a bit of a joke with the launch of the bug eye. I wont even mention the slippage in the JD Power survey or the closing of many Subaru garages. Yes I really want an hours commute to service my car now.

Seems pretty clueless to me, and to that end I shan't be purchasing another Impreza new from IM. As *IMHO* theres FA in the range that appeals to me.

All in all you seem a complacent @rsehole. Try to explain the fact that classic shape Imprezas have much better residuals than new shapes.

I'm off this thread so you can no doubt bask in some more self delusion with cut and paste IM pr mentality.

scoobynutta555

Might as well indulge in a spot of cut and paste

"Rofl. Tat? You think official UK Subarus are "tat" because... of Sunday's Top Gear? ???"

No. Stick to putting down your own views and not assuming what other people think.

greasemonkey

pmsl! The trouble is, old boy, that since I posted, a line of other posters has agreed with me. You can try and slag me off as a "mouthpiece" (etc.) until the cows come home, but that doesn't really work for everyone else, does it?

Correct. You are a paying customer. You are not Subaru UK's entire customer base, nor, most likely, a representative example of it.

Your assumption is incorrect. Subaru owners don't pay my wages.

And how, pray tell, do you define that exactly? A car that beats allcomers in non-scientific stunts on a Sunday night TV programme, or a car that's just damn good to drive? The WR1 is undeniably the latter, and, as for the former, as I said right up top, who gives a f**k? It's a TV stunt, not an objective comparison of the car's ability on the road.

Eh? Care to explain that one? IM didn't have any input into the look of the New Age Impreza, that was foisted on them by FHI.

Oddly enough, a slew of new Subaru dealerships are in the process of opening up.

Good. As suggested further up, do yourself a favour and buy a Lancer so you can replace that chip on your shoulder with an air of superiority down the pub.

Rofl, you can't actually "win" the argument, so you resort to insults? Are you actually old enough to own a car yet? As for complacent, far from it. I'm one of the most competitive people you would be likely to meet. I just don't see the logic in "measuring" the quality of Subaru roadcars on the basis of "tests" like the one shown on Top Gear.

That feature was more a measure of "The Stig" than anything else. I don't know what his qualifications are for getting the gig, but it was fairly clear he doesn't have much experience driving quick four wheel drive saloons.

The difference isn't as big as you seem to be making out, but the explanation, if there is one, was the comparative undesirability of the MY01 and MY02 cars, allied with IM's silly decision to knock three grand off to shift the last of them.

Oh, please don't, I like picking your "logic" apart. Seems to be giving some of the others a laugh too.

greasemonkey

Erm, didn't you notice the questionmarks at the end of that comment? It was a question, not a statement or assumption, and thus your accusation to the contrary is clearly erroneous.

If you believe UK Subarus are "tat", please enlighten us as to the reasons why...

16vmarc

I dont know if this has been said, probobly has but subaru are never ging to release a car to please everybody. At the end of the day there has to be some compromise and unfortunatly the 'ultimate performance on road and track' car isnt going to happen.

sti-04!!

GO ON GM

well said !!

WR1 Wannabe

Gotta agree with gm et al on this one.

It seems as if some people have had their pride stung, that's all. So TG got a quicker lap time with the EVO than the WR1 - how is that Subaru's fault? Don't forget that in the Autocar test, the WR1 did the 0-100-0 a second quicker than the Evo VIII FQ330 - that ain't slow!

It's just that Mitsubishi have now produced a more focussed track car with the MR because that is what they understood their customers wanted. As has been said before, people pick Scoobys over Evos because it ticks more boxes for them, and vice versa. You can't have both in the same car!

I wonder what Ferrari & Porsche drivers make of getting spanked every wet day by cheap, tinny, rice-mobiles? Nothing whatsoever, I should expect. Do you think Caterham drivers, who can kill an Evo on a track, burst into fits of pique when they see 5 people climb into an Evo? Not a chance.

They have their cars for their own reasons - we should remember the reasons we chose ours...

scoobynutta555

What's this obsession you have with Top Gear? I am not basing all of the opinions I have about Subaru on a tv programme sent out a few days ago.

Seems a case of sour grapes and Top gear from the mouthpiece of IM

If you read my previous posts you will see I have held my opinions for ages, not since sunday.Even being a customer, I'm quite sure many others think along a similar lines.

As for "You are not Subaru UK's customer base, nor, most likely, a representative example of it."

Seems to me that Subaru's focus has shifted from 25's-middle aged to a much older demographic for new cars. Im quite happy that im not attracted to the current IM range of heavier ugly efforts and more than likely not a representative of a current customer base.

"Erm, didn't you notice the questionmarks at the end of that comment? It was a question, not a statement or assumption. "

The question you put forward is a leading question and it was made out to look like I was basing everything on Top Gear. It is an assumtion you have, and thats played out in almost every misguided post you put up.

As for your remarks on classics v new shape depreciation, you seem to be saying what i have said for ages

"comparative undesirability of the MY01 and MY02 cars"

Are you now saying that although IM know their market (apparently), FHI doesn't?

However
"The difference isn't as big as you seem to be making out"
Hmmm, isn't it?

Knowing your hatred of motoring journalists who dont agree 100% with you' you know doubt hate the quote in Evo about the wr1 that went along the lines of
'best Impreza since the P1, but not better than the P1'

As for this new dealer network, in that case i'm assuming that there will be as many dealers as before and that there will be a sudden assault up the JD Power list

I shant be getting a Mitsu either. I'll keep what I have . And i've never been a pub bragger FYI.

Edcase

I can back GM up in that he is definitely not on IM's payroll

totally disagree. WRX has come down in price and I see some scarily young people driving them now, and the Sti is many people's next step. Naturally the people who were buying classics 10 years ago and have stuck with subaru are ten years older, although many have kids now and have a forester (unlike chuck who can still afford the 22b aswell ).

They are heavier because they have to be, due to stringent crash regulations. If you *really* want, you can lop nearly 20kg off by taking out the front crossmember behind the rad which was there to let it pass the US crash tests. If you want a light car, get a caterham! As for uglier, I was sat in a dealer today and the new Sti against a standard classic is a joke, its only the p1, rb5 and specials like the RA that even come close to the new car. But then thats subjective.

You are also not bearing in mind the classic was much more a supply / demand thing, subarus are now 'readily available', and the bugeye styling / price debacle just worsened that. The currently booming grey market is also a problem.

Is that so hard to believe? Bigger companys than fhi make styling mistakes. Some all too regularly!!

To quote GM, who gives a fu@k?! Even Evo get it wrong, their reviews of cars like the 360 and such like often conflict with what they said in their last feature, and again, its subjective!!! They are driving the cars harder than you are ever likely to. Go and drive the fu@king thing yourself and make your OWN MIND UP!!!

you are obsessed with reviews and lists!!! Who cares!!! I know tens of people with scoobs, all of whom mod them and drive them hard and I never hear any complaints, and mine has been as reliable as the day is long, with great service. I don't care about some survey. You obviously do.

Edcase

Still PMSL at this, cant say i've ever seen a 55-60 yr old in an sti

(not that there's anything wrong with that, if there's anyone out there that fits the bill!! )

sti-04!!

24 with a 04 sti

is that soooooooooooooooo wrong

or should i still be buying focus Ruff Sucks

greasemonkey

Really? It's noticeable that you've contributed frequently and vocally to the threads concerning this programme.

Lol. The longer you persist in trying to explain my comments away as the utterances of a paid IM/Prodrive stooge, the more you undermine your own argument. I say WTF I want here and don't obey any party lines. If you look around you'll see posts from me criticising both the above companies where I feel it's due.

It's noticeable from your previous posts that this programme has inflamed your passions somewhat, so don't try and pretend otherwise. Take this thread for example.

Hardly. The entry level turbocharged car is cheaper now than it used to be over the last couple of yeas of the GC/GF's life, and the range has been expanded with the addition of the STi. The Impreza is more accessible to a wider range of customers than it has ever been.

Ed has already explained more than adequately why the car is heavier. All new cars tend to be heavier than their predecessors - the new Golf is virtually twice the kerb weight of the Mk1!

It was a question that left you free to explain your reasoning behind the "tat" comment, if indeed you weren't basing it predominantly on the WR1's TG performance.

No it wasn't. I don't care what subliminal message you're trying to interpret into it, the wording is clear.

Well, law of averages says that there's got to be the occasional nugget of accuracy and coherence amid the rest of the bollocks you've been posting of late.

Yes. The bugeye was a big f**k-up, and virtually everyone within the Subaru manufacturing-distribution-dealer chain knew it right from the start, the only question would be how much the car's sales would suffer. I believe I'm correct in thinking that the MY03 facelift was on the drawing board before the first production MY01's had even left the factory.

Don't forget that Subaru's design department had a reputation for producing "quirky" cars; the GC/GF was a rare moment of comparative coherence. In the circumstances it wasn't too surprising that its successor turned out to be a bit of a failure visually.

PMSL! Come again? Hatred of motoring journalists? Now who's making craaaaazy assumptions?

Erm, sorry, you've lost me completely now. What grounds would I have to "hate" that comment. The guy is expressing an opinion that, for him, the WR1 isn't as good as the P1. He's welcome to his opinion, and I can see where he's coming from too.

Weird...

Edcase

I'm away now for the weekend at the GT racing at Snett (hopefully cheering my mates at Embassy racing on to their maiden podium), be interesting to see how many pages this thread is at by the time I get back

No calling me names when my back's turned, eh?

P1_BEN

26 and driving a WR1...... My opinion it's better than the P1.... Does that count for anything.....

Twigster

Just my 2p.
I appreciate that the WR1 is an excellent everyday driver and is a seriously quick car. However, I also think that it is more of an RB5 WR version of the classic in a newer sense, than it is a special edition of the prodrive equipped STI. I.e. it is NOT the 'true' P1/22B style leap from the STI that everyone expected it to be.
Also, having seen some pictures of the FQ340 at the motorshow (thanks to my mate Steve) I can tell you that a large number of the parts, (Turbo, DV, intercooler etc) are badged as HKS and as such is no different IMHO to a tuned scooby except for the manufacturer's warranty. (Generalisation I know but also my opinion and nothing more).
As for weight, I can appreciate safety has increased this but have not new materials (carbon-fibre mainly) and titanium alloys allowed for chassis to be constructed much lighter than previously??
I do not doubt that given time and budget prodrive would do a better job, but to be honest I don't get the impression that their heart is really in it any more, especially in view of the greater things they have moved on to since the days of the P1 with le mans projects etc.

greasemonkey

Who's everyone? The WR1 has turned out to be pretty much what I thought it would be.

As for the comment about expecting the WR1 to be a "P1/22B" style leap, you seem to be forgetting that when the P1 came out, the only turbocharged Impreza in the UK range was the Turbo 2000 AWD, and thus the P1 looked like a big step up. We now have the STi Type UK above the WRX in the range, so it stands to reason that the gap between this and the WR1 will be relatively smaller. If you remove the STi Type UK from the range, the WR1 would look like a pretty big jump over the WRXIII.

Erm, we're talking about a relatively cheap family saloon here, not an expensive sports car! Sure, new materials are around, but new materials tend not to be cheap. How many £20,000 carbon fibre/titanium family cars do you know of? Hell, about the cheapest aluminium chassied saloons on the market at the moment are the Audi A8 and Jaguar XJ, and do you know how much they cost?

"Better job"? Again, have you actually driven a WR1 and found it deficient in some way, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon like certain other posters on this thread? The WR1 is an excellent roadcar. If you think it could have been made better, could you tell us exactly what you think they should have done to it, bearing in mind that some of the JDM bits aren't available to them for legal/type approval reasons?

How did you gain that impression? Have you actually been there?

PMSL, their involvement with SWRT and the Ford Touring Cars didn't seem to hurt the P1's development, did it?

Sorry, but this is an absolutely ridiculous comment. Prodrive have always been involved in "greater things". They're a multidisciplinary organisation and pretty much always have been. Their involvement in the Ferrari Le Mans project is in no way an indicator that they're somehow "less interested" in road cars than they used to be.

Don't forget they've been involved in developing Subaru rallycars for getting on for fifteen years, alongside projects like the Ford touring cars (over here and in Australia) and their involvement in the Ferrari GT car also goes back a number of years. They have a specialist roadcar division based at a different premises from the motorsport operation and with its own staff. To claim that the roadcar people are somehow too sidetracked by the Le Mans project to develop the WR1 "properly" is a laughable proposition.

Cider boy

What is it with the obsession with (a few!) people about the lap times put up by the WR1???

I bought my Scooby as I wanted a nice performance car that I can drive day in, day out. I love the noise, the grip, the rally heritage, even my local dealer is very effecient!

If I want to go fast on the track, I get on my GSX-R! If I wanted a track car, I would get a westfield / radical / caterham / etc. WTF would you buy a 30k four door family saloon based upon how fast it will lap a track when that's really not in it's design breif??

Am I missing something here????

Matt

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

No Matt but a lot of others are

Ice Man - WR1

I have had my WR1 for 3 weeks now and I am absolutely delighted with it. The car has exceeded my expectations and for me that is all that matters. If I was going to be put off by what other people think (who have never driven the car) or what an article on a TV programme had to say I would probably never leave my house.

JonathanC

I agree with Matt.
I got my scoob as it gave (IMHO) the best balance between performance, cost, comfort and reliability. I have done 10k miles in 4 months in my WRX without problem, it sits at 90 happily up the M40 but still is fun when I want to play along the backroads. I don't think and EVO would be as easy to live with but may be the more "Driver focused" car.

I don't see that Subaru are targetting the same market as Mistubushi and therfore it is not relevant to compare the cars. They are aiming at different requirements.

As GM says, if anyone thinks the EVO is the "better" car go buy one. No one will think less of you, that s what a free market is about.

P.S what's wrong with the bug eyes, I am getting worried now!!

RB5 Paul

I wouldn't normally add anything to this sort of thread but as far as i'm concerned if you like something then get it,if you don't then get something else.But i wouldn't change what i was going to get based on what someone else has said unless it was due to general reliability or some kind of safety aspect.

And on the prodrive issue i think they should make more hardcore models as the standard wrx and sti do the allround car thing so well anyway,it would broaden the appeal of the cars and then have a model to suit everyone..
e.g a stripped out lightweight version of the standard car at a lower price with a lot of spec as optional including uprated components,then you could have the car you always dreamed about and not have to buy something with a load of stuff on it you'd never use

Hope i haven't offended anyone ,or bored you lol

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Compared to most of the drivle on this thread you're a star mate

Brit_in_Japan

Hmmmm, a stripped out race spec road legal WR1 wouldn't really broaden the appeal that much I think. It would be a pain to live with day to day, suspension firm enough to rattle the fillings, no electric windows, no air-con (remember last summer), no soundproofing, no audio etc It would have a very limited appeal I think.

And I can't see IM offering a 3 year warranty on a car whose prime aim is track use, it would be financial suicide.

If somoene wants a track car, they should go buy or build a track car. The WR1 by all accounts is exactly what it was designed to be, the best Impreza road car ever sold here. Please nobody don't mention the Type 25, they are playing with a different rule book.

Twigster Home

GM, you misunderstand me...
All I meant was that there seems to have been an expectation from a large no of people (bad choice of words with 'everyone') that the WR1 was going to be a p1 vs UK2000 style leap from the STI with ppp, when in fact it is more of a RB5WR leap, i.e. a more rounded package towards a good blend of poise and power.

I have, in fact, driven a WR1 for the record, and I was slightly dissapointed with the handling feel of the car, compared with my classic it felt much less responsive and less balanced. Perhaps a slightly lower centre of gravity (I'm no expert so I will not profess to say how) would benefit the car as it did feel a lot more top-heavy than I would expect from a £30k top of the range Subaru. However, I will admit that I will attribute some of this to the fact I wasn't used to it and not entirely to the car's natural abilities. I also don't actually give a flying one about top gear laptimes or tests, as I believe that Subaru have always offered better value for a useable performance car than Mitsubishi and others currently do.

However, I stand by my comments about prodrive as I said that it was an "impression" and not fact! I only know what I see and interpret that as best I can, and in view of the knowledge which we all know prodrive posess and the capabilities they have shown on cars like the P1, I believe that it is fair to say that the WR1 is not the sum of the best they can do for £30k in terms of performance.

One other thing, and I am prepared for a good flaming here..
Why make th WR1 the best all-round car for performance and everyday use when that was the specific point of the STI, the WRX and the other combinations that exist?? Is not the STI ppp supposed to be the "hard-edged" version of the current Impreza family????

greasemonkey

See what you're saying, and point taken. The only thing that can be said is that anyone harbouring expectations like that was being unrealistic at best. There was no way the WR1 could have provided a quantum leap in performance when compared with the STi PPP, and no way it would have turned out like the Type 25 has.

Don't know what sort of spec your classic is, but if the WR1 felt "much" less responsive I doubt you have standard suspension. The new age cars do have a higher centre of gravity and carry more weight than the classics, but that's not exactly something that the people developing the WR1 could do anything about, as it's a limitation of the bodyshell.

Short of fitting a thinner/aluminium/composite roof and upper panels, or stiffening the suspension (to the detriment of the ride), there is little to be done about that. The bodyshell is how it is, end of story. At least, of course, until the GE/GH shell is introduced.

Again, how can you make a comment like that without knowing exactly what they did with it, or indeed suggesting what else they could have done? You are holding the P1 up as some sort of example, while forgetting that it was no more or less than a special build car that received some aftermarket tweaking at Prodrive. In this respect it is exactly the same as the WR1.

It is, and the answer to your question can only be provided by the peeps at International Motors, as it was they who provided the development brief for the WR1.

As has been said above, there is no logic in IM providing a stripped out, raw "track car"/"evo beater"/***** extension type Impreza. The practicalities of warranty administration for such a vehicle would be ridiculous, and the market for it would be far too small, bearing in mind that most of the people after such a car would still buy an import anyway. Do you really think that IM would have sold 500 WR1's if they had no electric stuff, no aircon, harsh ride and no noise insulation?

IM seem to have a pretty good idea what their customer base is, and specified the WR1 to appeal to that group. At end of day, they've sold them all, and without any trouble, so you'd have to say they know their stuff.

Twigster Home

Agreed, they have sold them all, but I would argue that they could easily have done that with a more agressive nature to the car, but we can agree to disagree on that coz I'm off to the pub where I have a mate with an evo so we can watch the WRC and I can admire the good work of Subaru, prodrive and others!! lol.

As for the rest, as I have said, it is an impression and nothing more and as such is not intended as a serious debating point. For the record, I would like to see a more stripped out and serious scooby, but purely as a point of curiosity in comparison to the WR1 and sti, and not as competition with anything else.

edited to say it is nice to have a sensible conversation with someone for once!!!

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Exactly

500(sold out) x £30K= £15m or a very iffy 25 x £40K = £1m....... For IM it's all about Profit, end of story

Tony

RB5 Paul

Quote from brit in japan

Hmmmm, a stripped out race spec road legal WR1 wouldn't really broaden the appeal that much I think. It would be a pain to live with day to day, suspension firm enough to rattle the fillings, no electric windows, no air-con (remember last summer), no soundproofing, no audio etc It would have a very limited appeal I think.


I never mentioned firm suspension????
As i said if you'd have copied the rest of my quote down everything else could be an option that you could spec if you wanted it,and if you want your electric windows,air con etc then just get a wrx simple really lol