RobinSherwood

I know! But not possible - as I said I did ask lol

The worst part about getting the WR1 is no longer being a Wagoneer

johnfelstead

Ben has a good track record if that is who the Stig is, but he has no racing experience in AWD and i have no idea what his experience of a road going AWD car is. Based on what i saw i would give Mike Wood and myself a good bet against him in a WR1. I hope that isnt being arrogant, i just think his ability in that car based on the footage is questionable.

jjones

but that's not the issue is it john.

the test was conducted by the SAME driver in both AWD cars. ones lap time was considerably quicker than the other. you cannot deny from the footage that he was giving both cars a "good thrashing". presumably he would have had a few warm up laps with each car before going for the timed lap.

why cannot people just accept what was shown and that the evo bested the wr1s time, on that track, at that time of the day in those conditions. hardly the end of the world is it? thread upon thread about heatsoak/tyre choice/driver choice/mitsubishi cheating is just laughable.

dtriggs

Jon is correct - if the guy doesnt know how to get the best from such a car he will not be the fastest tester. Also how many laps were done ? Maybe he struck it lucky with one car and not the other. There are so many variables in this type of thing you cannot just say from the times one car is better than the other.

If Clarkson was to see this BB this week he would laugh his socks off - and no doubt take the pi55 out of our community next week. One car was faster than the other on a certain track - big deal - I always found I was fast at Goodwood yet not so at other tracks which didnt suit my car/driving style.

Some say TG doesnt have much of an impact - Scoobynet's reaction makes me think it does.

CustomScoobyIOM

Type T25 Wagon. What was the issue out of interest? The gearbox? All what I can think off......

chiark

CSIOM - track width... and gearbox, diffs.

johnfelstead

I think you are missing the real issue jj, i think most people are to be honest. It doesnt matter that the EVO was faster, what was so surprising was how bad he made the car look in terms of understeer, that is what is making people go

The lap time he achieved could be easily matched by driving the car in a way that it didnt understeer like a pig. If you look at the Carrera GT footage he actually runs wider in the hamerhead than in the Impreza, but doesnt just keep tons of lock in and has the car washing out/screeching as a result, he lets it run wide and builds the grip levels towards the exit managing the front tyre grip well. The Evo is almost as bad on understeer on the exit of the first right section of the hammerhead too by the way, its no more than 1 foot nearer the white line but you dont get the comentry saying how aweful it is so it doesnt apear such a big issue.

Track tests like this are a bit of a joke for road legal cars, now if Top Gear had the ***** to test all these cars at the ring they might show us what they are really like. Thats never going to happen though, the Stig would die too many times for it to be affordable. LOL

ozzy

I agree wholeheartedly with John. The Impreza will understeer like any car if it's driven poorly, especially just keeping it on full lock all the way around that corner.

Just look at the differences with the reasonably priced car. Some stars have it understeering badly, others take a slower approach and build up the speed instead. You see huge swings in lap times accordingly.

Look at the video footage and the Impreza doesn't understeer a huge amount more than the Evo. Shame the TG presenters make a point of playing up this and the tyre squeal.

I think John F should get a dealer sourced WR1 and Evo 8 to give us all an unbiased opnion

Stefan

wrx bill

well put jonh

Gutmann pug

and i assume mitsi will be allowed to take there top guy along to drive their car properly as well ......

Do we not think that perhaps we have warbled on enough about this now .... Its like listening to school kids giving it my dads bigger than your dad.

Here here Jon F .... maybe if you drive the scoob and I drove the mitsi round the ring, the scoob would win

Jiggerypokery

What I found funny was Clarkson dropping the magnetic time strips from the leader board onto the aluminium bonnet of the Impreza and expecting them to stick!

Madjay2

"Type T25 Wagon. What was the issue out of interest? The gearbox? All what I can think off......"

"CSIOM - track width... and gearbox, diffs."

is this not more of a reason to build it? think of the rarity of having a Impreza wagon with as many STi bits as possible plus a 2.5engine and other toys.

personally if i had the money (which i dont) a wagon would be top of my shopping list
their is something about them and makes them that bit better

Madjay2

ooooo my head is filling with all these mad ideas.

mitzi bringing out a wagon to go head to head with it.

its all pant wetting material imo

johnfelstead

I would be up for that. I can lap a certain 13 mile long track i know well within 2-3 seconds consistently these days driving at a safe but quick pace. Give me the cars to try and i'll give proper feedback on what represents real high speed road driving.

Never gonna happen though is it.

RobinSherwood

It was all of the above and Ian Litchfield said it would be uneconomical for him to build one, as to accomodate the greater track etc.,.. would require mods to the body etc.,.. As I have said already I did ask and was told no.

Robin

Jza

Jesus guys...

FACT 1.

The car got SPANKED.

FACT 2.

It understeered like MAD on the track. Driving style or no driving style....

FACT 3.

This was a VERY BAD advert for a car thats supposed to be creme de la creme.

Now you want to excuse the car for this with all this crap!!! :

Wrong tyres...
Not designed for track...
Not sure of setup or tyre pressures...
Heat Soke...
Poor driving (judging by the fact he was a foot wide on certain corners) even though the same guy then goes on quicker than anyone else has ever gone later in the program. FFS!!
The EVO has got AWD and the same driver could drive it without it screaching its **** around every bend!!!

WHY DO WE NEVER HEAR OF ANY OF THESE ISSUES WITH EVO's ??????

BECAUSE ITS A BETTER DRIVERS CAR ON THE DAY...

DEAL WITH IT!!!!!

FAO Mike Wood. Serious question

Mike, you constantly mention the fact that most people dont drive at the limits etc, and seem to be defending its poor performance. However people continually judge the cars performance AT THESE LIMITS... in magazines and on the TV. I have never read a post on this forum or heard of ANY evo driver complain that the cars too extreme.

My question is this. Why not design a car to outperform your main competitor as i see it - the EVO 8??? Is it in your brief with Subaru to provide a cutting edge performance machine and therefore your simply unable to do so - or is the brief to combine performance with "joe bloggs" user friendlyness???

That might explain a few things

Jza

nom

Isn't it worth injecting a bit of reality here?

Why not try your own opinion? Does anyone else drive your car whose opinion is more important than your own? Magazines / TV programmes have an entirely different requirement for what makes a car good. For starters, they don't live with them, but even if they did/those rare few that do, I suspect they have totally different day-to-day requirements than you. What are your local roads like? How much traffic is there? How often do you go on track? How many kids do you have? Do you need a space for the dog in the boot? How endless are your funds? Do you need 15 cupholders? Do you want to put a surfboard on the roof every weekend as well as use the same car for trackdays?

In short, everyone's needs are different. There is no 'better' for everyone, only for individuals, and you are the only individual who can decide what's best for you. So go & enjoy it & stop bleating about other people's opinions

jaycee

Jza, nicely put. I'm sure Subaru/Prodrive could build a package which would beat most things on the road but ultimately it would have limited appeal due to been too harsh for the mass buying public. Afterall they struggled to sell the last few P1's IIRC and that was probably their best chance of whooping the Mitsi brigade.
Modding is the way! You can add-on to suit your taste and budget and get the car exactly how you want it.

Just my 2 p's worth!!


Jason

johnfelstead

Subaru already have the cutting edge AWD sports saloon in the Spec C Jza, and a new one is out next week which is even quicker. There is no need for Subaru to make an EVO8 killer because they already have that.

The WR1 is designed as a road going sports saloon primarily aimed at being easy to drive on UK roads, if you want to blow away EVO8's you can buy a Spec C and do it easily using its track based tyres and geometry and higher response engine.

I think its a shame Subaru UK dont do what Subaru USA have done, which was to wait for the US spec EVO8 to be released and then spanked that with the USDM 2.5STi (which is very close to a Spec C in terms of chasis but with a 2.5Turbo, Type25 without the coilovers and comfort anyone ), but thats not posible curently with the way the European market is treated by Subaru Japan. If the rest of Europe dont want a spec C equivilent and wont pay for its type aproval, oficial UK buyers cant have it. Thats the reality of the situation, Prodrive have no choice but to work with the EU spec STi as its base.

This is why i am not overly bothered about the track time this car sets, because it's not important in the big scheme of things, but i think the way the car was made to look is harmful to its image, which i am sure no Subaru enthusiast wants to see.

Maybe this bad publicity will change the way IM release press vehicles, i personally think they should optimise the cars for the track if they are going to be used on a track based test, i know other companies do this. Maybe they wont because their core business wont be affected by tests like this?

Out of interest, how many EVO MR320's are they selling per year? Is the market share smaller so the car is inherantly diferent as a result?

mrklaw

as I mentioned in the other thread, I don't get the cost argument. Mitsubishi are also a relatively low volume producer, and they must release 3 different EVOs a year?

It can't possibly cost that much compared to the potential in terms of brand image and perceived value.

Honda didn't make the Civic type-R to appeal to their 50+ age group. They want to attract the younger drivers away from other brands, and hopefully keep them until they buy an accord.

Sprint Chief

It does appear, following the Evo and Top Gear tests, the Spec C is *the* track-oriented impreza if that is what someone is looking for. The WR1 is a good car in its own right but has different aims and a different raison d'être. The type 25 achieves both quick track times and comfort, although at a slightly greater cost.

However I can understand why people want to avoid buying a grey import under limited volume/single vehicle type approval from a company that could go bust at any minute, leaving you with a warranty worth less than the paper it is written on.

I am, of course, talking about Mitsubishi here

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

just wonderng why have so many people replied here when it was directed at Mike Wood??

ScoobyDoo69

Sprint Chief

Hiya ScoobyDoo69

Mike posted his reply which was inevitably going to generate further responses and other opinions following on from it. It is obviously quite an emotive subject and generates a lot of comment.

Comes from being a public bulletin board y'see...

johnfelstead

Nature of a BBS.

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

fair enough then lol. just thought it was odd how so many people replied before Mike Wood himself. cheers guys

ScoobyDoo69

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

although the cars on the track is great fun to watch its all a load of cr*p really, bit like the cool wall. If us scoob owners had our way TG would have to ship in an iceberg and sit a WR1 on top, now that aint gonna happen is it.

as far as i know (flame suit on) the scoob / evo and dare i say it the Focus RS are loosely based on rally cars NOT track cars.

Now heres an idea run all the cars on the list around lets say a gravel and mud stage and see what happens (apart from writing off a few) that would be worth the tele licence fee alone

now lets come at this from another angle (coz im bored)

take a stock scoob, throw £300K at it (price of the Porche BTW) and you get yourself a full on WRC car, set it up for tarmac and THEN see what happens.

Dazza's-STi

Oh I agree fully...

Here goes...

I think most, icluding me at some points in the past have missed the point a little in the whole EVO\STI thing...

In the end the Evo is more focused tool... its obvious if you get out of one into the other, the Sti is simply easier to live with, a little more softly sprung... and so on... Now this fact won't have been over looked, and at some point a descicion was made to tone down the Sti to appeal to a larger audience. In several posts I've missed this point i admit...

In all honesty, thinking back that was one of the reasons i went for the Sti against the Evo in the first place, cos as a daily drive and larger mileages the Sti was the pick of the two... I now have two cars so I don't have the need for the scoob to more civil, and this makes you want that bit more focus...
In most peoples choice tho few really could handle the Evo as a daily drive and so the STI does exactly what it should... the Evo fits the gap between MAD and needing a practicalty and if you need any more then take the next step and have two seat TVR...
Each has its place, and being philosophical about it means acepting that the STI will be slightly slower around a track, has a little understeer and so on... In the same was as the BMW M3 buyer accepts that the STI PPP took 1.5 seconds out of it with the Stig on TG last year! but Mr BM driver can drive in comfort down the M-way and still have a quick car...
The STI PPP is still a very quick car lets not forget... and still a very capable all round motor... a little more focused than the M3 and a Little less than the EVO8 FQ320 .

lets get this into perspective... with cars the faster you want to got the more you have to pay, and the more you have to sacrifice... these sacrifices come in small steps... one step apart are the EVO and STI...
Could you as a scoob owner really live with the next step...
ZEN


Dazza

davyboy

Maybe it would be an idea to select sports suspension or club sport package on the options list as it is on Porsches?

Dave

johnfelstead

That would be a step in the right direction Dave. What do the Porsche kits actually give you?

davyboy

I'll give you an example:

On the 944 Turbo, S2 and 968cs you could select the M030 package.


On the later 944's this was just stiffer, lower adjustable Koni's. On the 968 cs this consisted of bigger brakes, stiffer suspension and thicker ARB's. You could also select Recaro buckets seats and LSD.

I know the Boxster can also be purschased with sports suspension which is lower and firmer.......I guess you could select this for most modern cars too.

Even the GT2&3 has an option of comfort or club sport package (bucket seats, fire extinguisher), you can even specify a roll cage!

Although quite why you would buy a GT3 with comfort package is beyond me.

Dave