jasey

So - Rather than degrade the Iraqi prisoners we should be hacking off their heads so they can go to heaven.


You should stand for Prime Minister - I'd vote for ya !

Jerome

I'm amazed that you find the choice of torture or your head being hacked off a difficult one. The "torture" meted out by coalition troops doesn't seem that extreme compared to the stuff the SAS had to endure in the Gulf War. Seems a no-brainer to me. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I agree that the troops doing the torture have damaged the whole process irreparably, and have made a bad situation much worse..

I also agree that maybe it was rash of me to say that we should leave. I obviously have strong feelings on this issue. Maybe it's because I still think of the poverty that existed when I arrived and how grateful the locals seemed at the time to be getting food, while a year later, many want to kill British troops.

Also, the west would look very bad if they just left, internationally, and in the Arab world particularly.

Maybe they didn't want to be rescued. They sure as hell seemed to be glad when he was gone - at least initially.

Again, rashness on my part. Even if the UN was left to pick up the mess, British troops would probably still be involved.

As I said before, I feel strongly about the situation there and probably wasn't being objective in my last posts.

Something drastic does need to be done to clean up the mess we, the west, have created. Quite what we can do I don't know. I do know that justice does need to be seen to be done. The US/UK troops involved in any torture of Iraqis need very stiff punishments. Troops should be told that any further abuse will result in the troops responsible being handed over to the Iraqi authorities. Even this may only go part way into winning back support of Iraqis and the Arab world as a whole. We have a long and difficult path ahead of us.

ProperCharlie

from my POV, the sad thing about what has happened goes further than the terrible pain and suffering of one man and his family.

the hooded thugs who carried out the killing have played into the hands of all those who want to view all iraqis/arabs/foreigners as terrorists, murderers and barbarians. as can be seen from the responses on this board, many people now believe that all iraqis are "ungrateful" and out to gain a few dollars bounty but killing or capturing coalition troops.

it's all very sad indeed.

still, where is the next country on the "axis of evil" that can look forward to being "liberated" by the US and it's friends?

*time to roll waggons, boys - our work here is done*

<shakes head in despair>

Faire D'Income

Well, why didn't you say that in the first place?


Seriously, it's a complete mess and one can only hope that there are as many reasonable people on the Arabic bulletin boards saying the same thing.

turbotroll

Death is preferable to surviving humiliating torture for these people. It can be difficult to grasp at first as this concept is foreign to the majority in the west.
When carrying out their barbaric act, Nick Bergs capturers knew this would cause as much outrage in the west as the humiliation of the iraqi prisoners would in the Islamic world - now both civilisations are equally enraged.
Everything has just kicked up a notch................................

mr flibble

Horrific! I can't even start to imagine what that poor guy must have been going through.

Its a sad time we live in.

M.

Kyl3cook

There is a difference between military prisoners of war, and a US civilian...the whole thing sickens me, and after seeing the video, I can only hope that those B***ARDS get what's coming to them...along with the rest of the extremist scum!

I would hope America start kicking some serious ar$e now!

this whole thing has stirred up anger and emotions I have never experienced before!

Kyl3cook

Can I remind everyone that september 11th was an unprovoked attack on US citizens....these are men women and children we are talking about...people seem to forget this event and see that we have gone into this war guns blazing for no apparent reason....I support the war 100%..so long as it ends future terrorism....whether that means killing every last one of the little b@stards (not Iraqi's...I mean extremists) so be it!

how anyone can even ponder protecting these monsters is beyond me!...if they want to have their anti-everyone else beliefs, then so be it...as long as it's contained within their own region. If they want to subject their beliefs on the west through terrorist attacks, then they deserve what they get!

MJW

Spot on - in fact, in a strange way you can imagine that the Coalition administration are kind of glad that this has happened - after all, it's taken some of the heat out of the prisoner abuse scandal, and got people thinking like the guy in the above post which is exactly what they want.
Heh, maybe it was the CIA doing the beheading even as a kind of reverse publicity stunt [/me puts on asbestos suit] Where the hell's moses when you need him ?

mr flibble

kyl3cook, spot on mate. It stirred up anger and emotion in me too.

Put a big wall around most of that region and the people protecting them, and let them get on with it. They will end up killing each other.

or just nuke them all.........(even bigger asbestos suit needed after that comment!)

All the US has done is aggravated an already hostile wasps nest. These people will never change, look at their history!

M.

unclebuck

I'm not surprised. It's not every day you see some poor unfortunate getting their head sliced off with a blunt knife. It's an experience that will live with me for the rest of my life.

What I saw was far worse than anything, real or imagined, committed by US forces.

I think it's about time the PC mob, lead by Amnesty International, shut up and got on side. *They* are partly responsible for this escalation in events along with Piers Morgan. Shame it wasn't his head sliced off IMO.

UB

Brendan Hughes

Another sucker

catalunya199again

the iraqis will sponge off the government like something rotten.i served in bosnia and afghanistan and they all just want handouts and an easy life cause were out there they expect handouts.as for the head cutting off that is pure brutality its sick and they deserve public humiliation.


cant see them photos are to bad anyway its war for god sakes not a conkers compertition at least the iraqis are watered and fed just think how the british and americans are treated when there captured they would love a few photos being on a lead

ProperCharlie

yeah ok.

the naïveté of that comment is really extraordinary.

ProperCharlie

looks like you got there first, Brendan.

scoobchrissy

iTrader: (1)

PM me the link m8, i think they should blow iraq up and be done with it IMO.....

jods

Scoobchrissy.

My advice to you is to NOT observe the tape in question.

You WILL be damaged by observing such an act.

Do not do it.

wwp8

THE SICK *****!

THE VIDEO

not for the weak hearted

** Link Removed **

Kyl3cook

you can roll your eyes all you want, it's not going to change the fact that these fundamentalists all need to die. Yes things have happened before septemebr 11th on both the western and middle eastern sides, but to fly two planes into civilian buildings, killing thousands upon thousands is bound to provoke a reaction do you not think?....or indeed do you think at all?

SomeDude

Oh great, there's the link again

jasey

Well I think the Link should be there - in fact the video should be shown on the BBC 6 o'clock news - We need to know what we are dealing with here - don't forget the thousands of Iraqis that "dissappeared" under Saddam's Regime - I'm sure they met with an equally horrific end. The Coalition have to finish what they have started - you can argue as much as you want about what has happened but you can only affect the future - bitching about Blair, Bush, 911 wont change a ******* sausage !!!

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Mods get that Link removed please
Cheers
Colin

MarkO

TBH, whilst the video is fairly nasty, it's also of such low quality and low clarity that it's not as directly horrific as a lot of people are making out. I've seen things a hundred times more horrific in various Cert-18 films.

The only thing that makes it such a moving experience is that you know it's real and not special effects; i.e., it's the psychological effect of knowing it's actually happening to the guy, rather than any particular visuals being 'nasty'. And frankly, anyone who already knows that the poor guy was filmed having his head hacked off with a knife (so it wasn't even swift) probably already has 90% of the psychological horror happening in their head already, regardless of whether they've actually viewed the footage.

The fact of the matter is, though, that the Iraq region is still at war - it's a modern-day Vietnam now. The only reason there's such outrage about this particular incident (and the photos - real or fake - from the UK/US forces) is because we've all seen it; I can guarantee that there were far more horrific incidents during the actual combat itself, and yet nobody seems to be prepared to acknowledge that. Where's all the outrage about soldiers on both sides who were undoubtedly killed, injured and maimed in various horrific manners during the original conflict?!?

It's all spin, and it's all media b****ocks. It's not entirely unlikely that the Berg video could even be a fake, put together by the US just to take the heat off its own forces who are suffering a barrage of accusations right now. Anyone ever seen the film 'Wag The Dog'?

Geezer

Yes, things happened before 6th August 1945, but to drop 2 nuclear devices on NON MILITARY targets and kill 150,000 civilians?

These people think they are at war with the US, and they are hitting at them the best they can. That's just the way it is. The West conveniently forgets it;s own transgressions when it suits.

Geezer

jasey

It all started with the Crusades you know - lets all talk about that for the next 2,000 years

ProperCharlie

you have to start somewhere, but what Geezer is saying is that we like to make out that we are the guardians of high moral standards and decency, but even recent history doesn't really support this.

jasey

I agree you have to start somewhere - the simple fact is you cannot change the past - no matter how recent - all you can do is change the future (and I know there are some out there that believe you can't change the future either but that's a different argument).

Trying to fix the future by constantly reviewing what has gone before gets you nowhere ! The sooner everyone grasps this fundamental piece of reality the better. Yes there has been attrocities on both sides, we should never have been in Iraq, Osama shouldn't have flown two planes into the twin towers, America shouldn't have pissed Osama off, Libya shouldn't have blown up a plane over Scotland, Israel should have left the Palestinians to get on with it, We should have continued fighting the Japs and not dropped a bomb on them, Arch duke ferdinand should never have been shot, The British Empire should never have existed, The Dutch should have stayed away from Africa (and the British), The church (catholic) should have realised that eventually people would realise they weren't going to die if they pissed off God, The Church (Of England) should have realised that the barbarians were never gonna change, The Moors should have stayed out of Spain, Judas should have keep his mouth shut and the tw@ts that wrote the bible, Koran etc etc etc should have been ignored (although they probably thought at the time it would be good to give people some guidance not realising the trouble it was gonna cause for the rest of time).

ProperCharlie

i can see your point, but the way learning works is by analysing the results of previous actions. otherwise you would forget that the oven is hot, and burn yourself each time you went to get your roast out. apply this to the wider political situation.

MarkO

Also, jasey, you're assuming that the people involved are able to think rationally about the past, the future, and the consequences of any action they might commit. If you look at the Iraq war, the situation in Northern Island, the divide in Cyprus, Isreal/Palastine, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum, you'll realise that the people involved in this (whether western, Arabic, etc.) are simply not rational in their thinking.

The people who carry out these acts, be they Dubya Bush going to war or some Iraqi fundementalist beheading an 'innocent' westerner, are not behaving rationally; they are all acting on a previous situation/incident in history. This colours their judgement, and makes them do stupid/horrific/barbaric/irrational things. The Iraq war/occupation was as a direct result of 9/11 (with a bit of mineral excavation added for good measure). The retaliations will continue in a circular fashion, ad infinitum, until the point at which the world reaches Utopia and everyone can live peacefully and just get on with their lives instead of arguing, tit-for-tat, about what's gone before.

So basically, we're all screwed.