andypugh2000

I refuse to watch it and think the link should be taken down, imagine if he was one of your relatives?? I think we should show some respect for the family here and stop gorging on this horror

just my 2 pence worth

jasey

MJW - I assume you haven't watched the Video !

Jye

Like some were all to willing to report and have us believe i.e. the recent media photo's of our boys torturing prisoners, was this not perhaps an accident or are we suddenly all to willing to believe what some people want us to believe.

Jerome

I've watched the video and it is horrific. You simply cannot compare torture to this.

The people capable of hacking someones head off with a fricking knife have lost touch with humanity. Even in medieval times an swift method was used. Animals are normally given a more "humane" death - and animals don't know what's coming.

Also, every soldier who is out their now and in the future will fight to the death rather than be captured. Some will shoot first and ask questions later rather than risk being captured. The Americans already have itchy trigger fingers. Many innocent (if there is such a thing) Iraqis will die as a result. A year ago I would have been bothered, now I just don't care.

AFAIC, Iraq is fecked. All coallition forces should withdraw. Leave the ungrateful barstewards to their own devices. Maybe go back in a few years when the anarchy has subsided.

unclebuck

Indeed. Why would a highly trained British Soldier want to willfully shoot an 8 year old girl? As stated at the time it was caused by a stray bullet. IMO this is a case of Amnesty telling the family to say it was deliberate, and magicing up a 'witness', so as they will have a case to claim compensation.

UB

MJW

Yes I have seen it.

jasey

Then you need to look up BARBARIC in the dictionary mate - Even if a british Soldier stood over an Iraqi Baby and Shot her in the head it wouldn't be as BARBARIC as that !

Oh - and I don't know that an 8 year old was murdered - but I know what I saw in that Video !

God help the next lot of Iraqi prisoners - there wont be any photos this time

MJW

Amnesty International is not the PR wing for Al-Queda. And don't you think the family of the girl in question are entitled to justice, just as Nick Berg's family are ?

Faire D'Income

How can torture not be compared to that? It was sickening and disgusting but if there was a video of someone being tortured, then it would be equally as horrific if not more so due to the increased duration of the act.

The Arab way of dealing with life is far harsher than that of Western cultures. You just have to see how the Saudis deal with petty thieves to realise that this bunch of inhumane b@stards have arguably only stepped out of line (insofar as their own cultural acceptance is concerned) as far as the Coalition troops have with the treatment of Iraqi prisoners in terms of Western cultural acceptance.

That is just the point, we can't withdraw or else the whole place will implode but that's the price of this whole stupid venture, with those in charge (and many of those Scoobynetters who supported the invasion - where are they now?) who should have considered an exit strategy and how to implement law and order in the first place.

What people fail to understand is that it's the minority who are causing the problems on both sides. Arabs in general aren't suicidal anti-Western terrorist and nor are Westerners gung ho torturers who invade other countries at the drop of a hat but this whole mess has been caused by Bush/Blair and Al Qaeda.

dtriggs

There is the video somebody posted recently of a badly wounded Iraqi being finsished off by US snipers (when he was lying down with no way to defend himself). It took longer than 30 seconds and was just as barbaric. They then whooped with delight at their success. Both sides are as bad as each other. I suppose cluster bombs landing on Kids playgrounds are all fair too ?

unclebuck

"Lawyers acting for 12 Iraqi families, who allege their relatives were killed by British troops won the right in London’s High Court to challenge the government, a case, which could lead to criminal proceedings against soldiers or the government for unlawful killing."

Their 'human rights' lawyers are doing a pretty good job of stirring up trouble for our forces, making all kinds of time wasting allegations. AI have their own anti-western politically correct agenda, I'm sure Al-Queda would see them as allies.

Geezer

Torturing people is terrible. This poor guy had about 15-20 seconds of probably incredible suffering, and then it was over. Tortue is designed to make the person suffer for long periods of time, but not to die, so they can endure it again and again. That truly is barbaric.

Still, I'm not saying anyone here is worse than the other side, they are all ***** in my opinion.

Geezer

MJW

I think you should re-read your statement and perhaps you will realise the total lunacy of its contents.

Ted Maul

delete the link.

I won't watch it as I can't see how it would benefit me in any way.

Don't make it easier for people to see it.

Jerome

Let me put it this way. Would you rather be tortured and live, or have your head hacked off with a small knife? Thought so.

Agreed. Doesn't make it any better in it's own right, let alone making a video of it. They knew westerners would be repulsed, which is why the didn't put a bullet in his head. It was for effect, sick *****.

When I first crossed the border into Iraq, the locals were begging for food and water from the roadside. It was a very moving spectacle that will be with me always. The south of Iraq had virtually been abandoned by Saddam and the poverty - across the board - was third world. These same people are now targetting British troops:

$150 for killing a British soldier.

$350 for capturing a British soldier - why more for capture I wonder?

Any female British soldier caught can be kept by the captor as his own slave.


IMO, a bunch of savages that didn't deserve to be "rescued" from Saddam.

As for any implosion - couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Agreed. Now is the time to bite the bullet, admit it was wrong to go in there, and withdraw. Let the UN sort it out if need be.

My family were besides themselves with worry while I was out there. Can you imagine what is must be like for the families of the troops now...

Audi-Boy

Absolute trash!
The pictures we refur to are clearly staged and the 'torture' displayed is VERY tame.

The physical pain, I'm not sure, possibly a minute, but mently it was more torture than physical, the days/weeks leading up to it he knew how they would kill him.

What a nice way to die..NOT.

I cant believe people link the two together!

Jye

Like all wars this is a now a propaganda war. Is too late to pull out? It's only to late to pull out if we have an ulterior motive to stay, like oil, or saving face, or an election to win. Staying to 2008 or 2080 wont make any diference. The die has been cast and the terrorist are now in charge. The big problem now is that the terrorists have strong public support in Iraq which imo will only get stronger the more we and our media meddle.

Adrian F

I am glad to see the link removed can people have no feelings for the poor man and his suffering let alone feasting on the item. if nobody viewed the video they wouldnt do it again by viewing it you are rewarding the evil men who committed this crime.

as to allied forces committing torture well from what i understand most of the reported cases that can be supported are things like putting a hood on prisioners or putting them in uncomfortable positions to stand all of which are claimed to be torture well we put british troops through this when we do training and it can't be compared with the public murder of this man.

No group of individuals is perfect but to claim that the possability of a few unproven cases of physical abuse by a few individuals justifys this is beyond belief.

The situation in Iraq was/is not going to be solved over night and requires commitment and the support to the troops who are there doing the will of the government elected by the British people. if you don't like it vote for the liberals or the greens or some other appeasement party next time but don't blame the troops for going to Iraq blame the people who voted in Blair who sent them.

Petem95

Agreed, it was more humiliation than torture, and Im not saying it was right, but lets not forget some of the people in those photos were probably the same sort of people who may have attempted to kill/killed US/UK troops.

Seems there are plenty of extreme Islamic groups out there who are looking for only the slightest excuse to carry out this sort of horrific act.

Jye

Sorry, dont agree, we were misled by BLiar and I think the majority of sensible people knew this and would not have wanted our troops in Iraq. I'd vote to get them out of the place asap.

jasey

MJW - Nothing wrong with my words - shooting someone IS LESS BARBARIC than hacking their head off with a knife.

If you think this statement makes me a looney then you are obviously a tree hugging liberal - OR Robin Cook

Diesel

And that is it in a nutshell.

This blows my mind, but bizarrely those 'terrorists' have some greater moral highround over the Yanks as they are open and 'executed' this poor man. The Yanks set dogs on prisoners of war, and kill them in other ways and then try to keep it quiet.

I hope my countrymen would want to protect me from torture by 'example executing' a few of the enemy's own.

Game over...

Faire D'Income

That's impossible to answer as you well know, with the choice being death or living your life with the trauma that you would have to endure as a result of being tortured. Any reasonably intelligent person would have problems giving a direct answer, in the same way the age old dilemna of commiting suicide instead of living out your life with an incurable disease.

Of course they're sick, which makes it even more frustrating that the stupidity of a few troops and prison guards have played into their hands and effectively upped the anti. Now we have hotheads on both sides baying for blood which will only exacerbate the whole mess - people who are now saying let's pull out and leave Iraq to its fate are being incredibly short sighted. Can you imagine the reaction of many in the Arab world if that were to happen? On one hand they'd declare a victory over the West which had been vanquished by Iraqis leading to far more bloodshed as these fanatics gained more support from moderates. On the other, martyrdom would be declared by Al Qaeda and yet more blood would be spilled on both sides - much of it needless.

Who said they wanted to be rescued from Saddam? As far as I recall, the initial excuse for invading Iraq was their allegiance to Al Qaeda, which when proved incorrect was changed to freeing the region from WMD which were held by Iraq which when proved to incorrect was changed to freeing the region from an evil dictator (no argument there) but did the Iraqis want Saddam removed to be replaced by something potentially even worse?

So, because we've forced ourselves upon them and contributed to chaos we just up sticks and leave them to it?

Well, that's a great idea. Lets save our own sorry ***** and leave it to some poor bugger in the UN who's rules of engagement are so limited that mass slaughter of UN soldiers would become common place. We caused the mess, so we have to help clean it up without stooping to the level of these scum.

Geezer

The pictures to which you refer are not the same as what I am talking about. The pictures in the Mirror may or may not be staged, and they are admittedly tame compared to this.

However, the US have admitted that their troops have tortured/abused/killed Iraqis. This is only what we know about. You can bet that for every example exposed, there are others that go unexposed. To think that coalition troops are holier than thou is niaive in the extreme. The Allies raped and pillaged their way across Europed in 1944/45, the Russian were as bad as the Germans. The US in Vietnam were particularly unsavoury in their treatment of the general population. Remmber Mi Lai? Not even POWs!!!

Pissing on someone is not nice, but not barbaric. But if you fail to see why torturing someone continually is as bad as murdering them (and remember, humans are pretty tough, causing the body to shut down without drugs is always going involve an act of some not inconsiderable violence) then you must have a pretty blinkered view.

I state again (for those who can actually be bothered to listen instead of of following their anti-arab bigotry), all sides here seem to have stooped to the worst excesses that humanity has to offer.

Geezer

Faire D'Income

Adrian. I don't think anyone here is not ready to support our troops in Iraq but if some of them (American and British) have tortured Iraqi prisoners then they should be punished severely. Blaming them does not constitute a lack of support for the majority of troops who are blameless and just trying to do thier jobs.

CrisPDuk

Look at it from the average Iraqi's point of view. Before the war they had electricity, clean water, regular (albeit limited) food, and cheap fuel. What do they have now? No electricity, **** all water, **** all food and fuel that has increased in price ten-fold, if you can get any! Wouldn't you be more than a little p!ssed off?

Plus on top of that, you've got a bunch of heavily armed, trigger happy rednecks strutting round treating you like scum, just because you don't speak their language.

jasey

And don't forget they were killed if they were Kurds Crispy !


At least now the coalition will kill any AAAAA-Rab they see !

Jerome

Er, where did you get that idea? Or do you mean before the Gulf War?

The Iraqis in the south had no electricity or clean water and very little food. A quarter of Iraqi children had malnutrition. Most Iraqis in the south had sold virtually all of their possesions to buy food/water. All the Iraqi vehicles I saw were death traps. There was no waste disposal or sewage system. Rubbish and sewage was simply dumped at the edge of the road across from living accomodation. Unexploded ordnance was everywhere. An EOD guy attached to my unit was killed trying to defuse a UXB because he was worried about the local children. In comparison to Kuwait across the border, they were very badly off.

Since the troops arrived, living conditions have got significantly better for the Iraqis in the South.

Mitchy260

We're all adults and have a choice of viewing the video.

If anyone wants me to post them the link through PM then i'll do so.

If any Brit/US serviceman done that to a prisoner, they would spend the rest of there days behind bars. These Iraqis however will get no such treatment, the only treatment they deserve are physically being killed themselves.

I would rather be stripped naked and laughed at than having my head hacked off with a small knife.

dtriggs

What most people seem not to realise is that to many Iraqis death is far preferable to being tortured. They believe in a better life after death if they die as martyrs for heavens sake. Their religion is so important that the degrading behaviour that the Americans have put them through is worse than dying fighting the 'Jihad' (Holy war). Westerners have different beliefs and different standards. They are hard to be compared, and who can say who is right.