MarkL

I have been a passenger in a Scooby with mismatched front and rear tyres around the MIRA test-track (less grippy tyres on the back). To say the car was tail-happy would be an understatement.

There have been a few horror-stories in the past of people losing control of their cars on the road and crashing due to mismatched tyres too.

Do yourself a favour and don't do it would be my personal advice.

strong

Only mismatch tyres if you have to, and then be aware of which type is best, and put the best on the rear so you don't get unprovoked oversteer.

I've run S-01s on the front and S-02s on the back before and in the dry the tyres are well matched, but in the wet there was lots of understeer. Better than oversteer though.

I wouldn't like to have different types of tyres on the same axle. The handling would be inconsistent.

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

As Rich_R appears to be the only person who has had S02, and S03 on 17" I'm going to have to bow to his opinion

Be nice to see 5,000 miles from a set of tyres, so we shall see how I get on with the S03s

SDB

Andy

Without question, mismatching tyres is a disaster waiting to happen. You are basically throwing the entire suspension and chassis set-up of the car away but even worse...

It's not the case that different tyres just have a percentage of grip, so one would be 80% of the grip of the others...

some tyres are better at different things, so it makes the entire car completely unpredictable as surfaces change.

Cheers

Simon

millband

So, in summary:

SdB knows a lot about tyres
S02's are great, but gone...
S03's are not as good as S02's

...BUT...

Are S03's better than Toyo Proxes T1-S and the others?

I'm about to replace (tomorrow maybe) my S02's on 15" wheels, and want an opinion. I want good wet grip, but like the look of the T1-S. I was v.happy with my little S02's, but it seems S03's are crap on smaller wheels.

What should I do???

Cheers,

Steve

millband

Well, I've found some 15" S02's for £104.81 fitted per corner (Alba Tyres, Bradford) which I'm getting fitted on Friday.

The best quote I got for Toyo's was £115 each - I don't think they sell too many on puny 15" wheels!

Steve

ian_sadler

I'm still happy with my 16" (ooh aar Misses) SO-3's even if mr SDB has gone to toyo's

Of course i don't drive like him.

Ian

Spence27

I would agree with above, mismatching is not really a good idea - unless you are completely aware of the limitations, and if you are it can be alot of fun.

eg. I had Avon ZZ1 (they came with the car I didn't choose them!) on the rear and toyo T1-s on the front (I did choose them)....in the dry things weren't too bad, rear just felt a tad lighter than it perhaps should.

But in the wet things were different. Toyos being excellent in the wet, avons being less than crap in the wet. So basically round abouts the toyos would just dig in, but the rear would simply not!

Never had any incedents, but I could controllably and delightfully hang the back out round roundabouts, put a bit of power down with opposite lock and gently reel it in...alot of fun if you're careful, but generally not recommended.

Now have toyos on back and avons on front ! Big understeer in the wet? Oh yes. Need more proxes.

cheers
Alex

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

Initial impression, S03s are not good on 17"

Have only done 350 miles on them, but as that generally equates to not far off 10% of the tyres life span I'll post my initial findings, compared to the Toyos on previously

Grip - not great
Noise - loud
Turn in - poor
Feel - akin to driving on rubber stilts as the tread flexes every which way.
Wear - looks OK at present, just slight wear on outside edges.

Ideal use - American car chase as they squeal at the slightest provocation.

So far only used in the dry, as the rain in Scotland appears to have dried up at the moment, bound to change soon.

Very disappointed, especially as they ended up costing me over £550

scoobymike

My experience of S03 are a bit different. I should state that I now drive a EVO VI TME. I have them now around 4'500km on my car.

Tyre is very comfy, road noise well contained.
In the beginning a lot of screaming now with lower treads much better. Dry grip is good, in the wet the grip is stunning. Tyre wear especially on the edges is much improved compared to the S02. Downside is the turn-in (not such a problem on an EVO compared to a Scoob), it needs to settle for a split second before it bites. I contribute that to the tread pattern design as it now has improved since the treads are quite worn and not the flexible side walls. The last point is on track they overheat quite quickly. Now with my aggressive setup on my Mak I can overheat them even on the road (not recommended )
These are my experience with the 225/45 ZR 17 size.

Mike

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

A bit late in coming but I'm running SO3's all round on 18", 225 x 35 x 18's and they are the biz !
Ask anyone who's been on the Lakes camping trip, all sorts of road terrain including various weather conditions, just my two pennyworth though !
Oh, and I'll be putting them through their paces at Trax

[This message has been edited by Mellow Yellow ! (edited 29 August 2001).]

aduggan

>Would anyone like to share their opinions on mixing RE011's on the front and S03's on the back.

Scrap that. I have re-read this thread and the advice seems to be, don't be a moron.

Maybe someone could advise me on this instead: How would the SO2s compare with the RE011s for 17" rims? I have had S02s on a previous car, BMW 325i, and liked them a lot (very precise, quiet, incredible grip in wet and dry, great stopping). That was a rear-wheel, I'm now dealing with AWD so I'm not sure whether or not the same considerations apply.

Thanks,
Alan

aduggan

I believe I experienced what could be described as a 'heavily vaselined eel on polythene' on my morning commute this morning.

I swapped the original RE011 fronts and rears last night with ragged on the rear ~2mm (awaiting replacements), and ~4mm on the front.

The car I drove this morning was a different car. It was hard to tell what the front was doing but Dave T-S's description sums it up for me.

Would anyone like to share their opinions on mixing RE011's on the front and S03's on the back. Was considering wearing out the ~4mm pair but after this morning's experience, I am re-considering.

Alan

Sigmund

Check out the ratings for the S02 and S03 at tirerack.com.
Seems like people there rate the S03's higher.. Might be that 17" and bigger are way better than 15 & 16. Some peolpe there complained about sidewall flex too. 35 profile here we go!

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Like I said...........

PeterE

We've been having a little debate on the GTR forum about SO2s, etc. and, having had SO3s fitted at the SIDC day at Bedford last Friday, I wondered how the squirming that has been mentioned here manifests itself? On the way home from Bedford, I experienced a slight juddering through the steering wheel which didn't feel like a balance problem. Mark told me that this was the tread squirming... Has anybody with SO3s fitted experienced the same thing?

Tyres are 245/45/17s so I'm hoping that they'll perform as well as the SO2s I replaced (I was hoping they'd be better but now have doubts having read this thread). We're at Brands on Wednesday so I guess I'll find out soon.

Cheers.

Peter.

AJbaseBloke

Peter,

I had the S-03s on my Legacy and agree that they are not great out of the box. The squirming was noted, as was not much grip!

However, after a few hundred miles things started to get better, and by 1200kms there was lots of grip and s.

Not sure how they'll handle the power of a modded GTR tho. Over here the top sports/road tyre is regarded as the RE-01, which was released around the same time as the S-03. I have the RE-01s on my car now and have to say I am very impressed - however these were not that special when brand new either! Got 800kms on them now and things are starting to get much better!! They are absolutely marvellous in the wet, too.

I think it has something to do with the cap polymer they have on this series. Seems to be pretty unimpressive, although they advertise this as being a grippy layer, with even more grippy stuff below it to keep the tire's performance levels consistent as it wears down (so goes the marketing schpiel).

Forgot to add that more pressure than std. was a solution that we found for some flex in the carcass of both tyres (doh! But I've been surprised by how many people tell me off for *over inflating*).

Hope this helps a bit.

PeterE

Thanks for the reply. Trouble is we don't seem to have so much choice from some of the tyre manufacturers over here. I had RE010s on the car when I bought which were the original set but I don't think RE01s are available....

Oh, well I guess I'm stuck with the SO3s for a while so we'll see what they're like on Wednesday. There's a 550ish 34 going as well which is running SO3s on 18"s so that'll be interesting as the guy can drive a bit.

Peter.

Bob Rawle

I've just put SO3's onto my car ... 215-40-17, covered about 800 miles now.

Comparisons are ..

When new both SO2's and SO3's are less grippy, both needed about 700 miles to scrub in properly.

Now I would say that SO3's are quieter, as grippy in the dry, have stiffer side walls, in damp greasy conditions I would say they are "only" 95% as good as SO2's but should improve ... seems to do so, in outright wet conditions they are definately as good.

I too was a bit wary, I could have fitted SO2's but opted for the '3's istead just to find out as much as anything. So far I have not come across any behaviour that has made me regret the choice.

I am talking about driving on normal roads here, I can't comment on their behaviour on track. Got mine from Micheldever at £118 per corner all in.

AJbaseBloke

Yippee - 700 miles for Mr. Rawle is close enough to 1200kms - so maybe I am not dreaming.

Those S -03s I was talking about are now on a m8's car, and are still excellent - pushed them hard last night and they still do very well (now done 7000kms). And they seem to wear quite well (on heavy B4s too, also done 3 track days).

Peter - sorry to hear you can't get RE-01s - I can tell you they are better than the RE040s (OE on the GTR here at least). And they are cheaper by a not insignificant margin. However, they are not known to be hard wearing - some have equated them to erasers - only done 1700kms on my RE-01s and they are really picking up quite nicely.

Somebody in the UK must be able to get them...

Also, I have never commented on the Toyos or Goodyears, but while they may be good VFM, they are not regarded as the top of the tree over here (at least in general performance terms). Much of the time they are not that much cheaper either.

But when it comes down to money, although there may be a pay-off, if you are happy with the result, there is no better option!

Cheers.

GF8

AJbaseBloke-san,

How do you compare the S03 to RE-01 in terms of Grip, handling, ride quality and noise level?

AJbaseBloke

Well, on the understanding that this is a very personal comparison, I will give MHO.

I'd give the RE01s the grip and handling prize (although not by much), while the civility stakes go to the S-03PPs (by more of a margin, but the RE01s are not horribly noisy or harsh either compared with some other big name rubber I had the misfortune of trying recently).

S-03PPs are said to last longer, but while the wet performance of both tyres is excellent, I suspect the S-03s will do better in very heavy conditions due to a more open tread pattern.

Just remember to be gentle for the first few hundred miles while wearing the top cover off (one early adopter & GTR owner who frequents the store I visit regularly did not/forgot, and sadly wrapped his beautiful R34 around a pole about 2 days after putting his new rubber on ).

If the top line grip and perf is your target, get the RE-01s (accepting that some noise will come into the game). If you want some more civility with great perf but some compromise on response is acceptable, the S-03PPs will likely serve you well.

Just in case anyone thinks I am biased toward Bridgestone, I have driven on Dunlop, Pirelli and Michelin almost exclusively (except when B'stones were OE on a Skyline<RE-71s> and Suby GT-B<RE-010s&gt. The RE-010s were OE on my B4 too, and I sold them to a friend immediately after delivery!!

Cheers.

AJbaseBloke

Thought a comparo between the tread patterns may be interesting for some people:

RE-01

Close up of the tread


The S-03PP


Hope this helps for those who've never seen either tyre (though I bet most who read this forum have done plenty of research.

Cheers

WagonFly

Haven't visited for a while. I can't believe this thread is still running!!! I'm sooooo confused. Anyone care to summarise the contents? I will need new tyres soon and the last 8 pages have just frazzled the hell out of me.

Two questions:-
1. What is the best option for a 98 turbo with 17" prodrive alloys when grip is the main criteria (and as I live in the UK lets bias towards the wet)
2. As this thread has gone on for so long is it still possible to get SO2's? We could be up to SO-5938574930's by the time this ones finished!!

AJbaseBloke

M8, if your money stretches as far as the S-03PPs I think you'll find them to be excellent (after the top skin is gone). I think you'll find they are very, very good in the wet, too.

I only brought the RE-01 up coz all the *road-legal* Skylines I drive with are wearing them too...

Cheers (and sorry if I was the source of confusion)

GF8

AJbaseBloke-san,

Does the R tyre such as RE-540S, D01J, 048 legal in Japan? If yes, which one is more popular?

WagonFly

AJBaseBloke, wasn't jibing at you my friend. It was the whole thread that's left me confused.

And to be fair it isn't so much confusion as an illustration of the fact that tyre size, model, driving style, etc are all contributing factors and make chosing so tricky. Just wish they didn't cost so much and last so long!!

PeterE

Got to agree with AJBaseBloke. The SO3s were great at Brands last week. Easily as good as the SO2s with IMHO possibly slightly better turn in. Brands was pretty wet to start, drying very slowly through the day with some nice dry patches at the close of play. Wet/damp grip was superb. They 'complained' a bit on the dry bits later on in the day but no more than the 2s. SOs rock!

AJbaseBloke

GF8 - the track spec tyres are not road legal here in Japan. Although there are some boarderline ones appearing: the tyres on the Evo, the new RE-070s on the RA Spec C to name a couple.

You need some water dispersing ability, and good road tyres are the best route for that m8.

WagonFly, I think the S-03PPs will serve you well (cue recorded message girl >"just don't push'em hard when brand new - this is a recording" ).

PeterE, I am really happy they worked - and I agree, in fully dry conditions they do seem to suffer a bit (a lot?? ). The GT-R really puts quite a bit of energy into a tyre (coz it's so fast, and quite heavy) and so does the B4 (quite fast, heavy, and running on smallish 215/45-17s).

Cheers

PeterE

AJbaseBloke,

'quite heavy' is an understatement. Weight is a real problem with the GT-R, 1530kg kerb weight must translate to well over 1700kg on the track tanked up with a passenger. Far too fat but weight reduction is a costly business so I'll settle fat and fast.

Peter.