Dark Blue Mark

IMHO, a standard UK scoob isn't a blisteringly fast car compared to a lot of modern cars, and to me, 0-100 times are useless. The scoob is a bloody good all round package though.

How many straight line races have you had lately?

Its normally throttle on / off, brake accelarate, roundabout type stuff. I wouldn't fancy I could pull any ground on a well driven Cup...

I think a lot of people really read in to 0-60 stuff far too much. Its not real world to me...

MB

brickboy

DBM -- real-world performance? This could turn into another diesel vs petrol thread

LG John

Classic Scooby 0-60 = 5.3s 0-100 = 14.9s....................60-100 = 9.6s
Standard Cup 0-60 = 6.5s 0-100 = 16.9s......................60-100 = 10.4s
Modded Cup 0-60 = 6.0* 0-100 = 14.5s*......................60-100 = 8.5s

* Both claimed!

So, the claim therefore is that an exhaust/filter/chip takes the cup from being about 1s slower than a classic scooby to 1s faster than one and with a 60-100mph time of 8.5s its seemingly as fast over that increment as a P1!!!!!! How can adding a few breathing mods to a hot-hatch take it from being slower than a classic scooby to being as fast as a P1 As anyone who has driven a classic standard scooby AND a P1 will testify there is a significant difference between the two vehicles! On this basis I'm guessing adding throttle bodies and cams to the cup would have it leaving TVRs after 60mph

Reptillian

I'd be very interested to see the result of the Clio cup vs the P1, I find it hard to believe the P1 wouldn't pull on it but if it doesn't then I know where I'll be going for my next fun car......

wilf

As said before, until recently I owned both a P1 and std Cup together and have run them side by side in comparison tests. P1 would pull away every time.

WRX Wannabe

Well here you go

I was @ Santa pod on Sunday and there was a V6 Cilo on the strip
1st run 16.1
2nd run 15.7( so NOT that quick then )

My friend has a CUP and raced ME up the strip 3 TIMES and i beat him EVERYTIME( i only have 130BHP) he only got in the 17's :P

But as we ALL know it's down to DRIVER skills

I have seen a cup do 15.5 @ Santa pod

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

My Cup runs the 1/4 Mile in 14.5secs @ 94mph

Timed with only 2,700 miles on the clock, standard apart from a Pipercross Viper, and rear seats were removed (only saves 25.5kg) so I was quite pleased!

Should be going to Pod again next weekend (4th April) to see if I can better this now it has a few more miles on the clock and loosened up a bit. Might even have a zorst fitted by then...


However I know a couple of Cup's that run 14.0/14.1secs @ 98/99mph with just a filter, zorst, de-cat & chip, which makes them very quick cars for only simple mods.

If they had better traction off the line they would be even quicker...



Standard car is 1021kg, so with the rear stripped that loses 25.5kg (I weighted the bits) you have a mere 995.5kg, so with say 190bhp under the bonnet that's a pretty nice power-to-weight ratio!



(I'm not saying the Cup is a Scooby beater though)

Frazer

Kenny Kenny :-)

There have been 3 Cups (ecu,stripped,de-cat,exhaust, ik) all doing 14.0-14.2 with terminals from 98-100. When my Cup was standard I matched a Impreza Turbo (exhaust mod) over the 1/4 mile in every gear (i got a much better reaction time so that took out the traction advantage) and actually pulled a ball hair in 3rd. Now this is when I was standard a few months after that I went back after getting a R Sport ECU fitted and ran a 14.4 only fwd car that matched me on the day was a modded 2.0 16 valve Nova, with the de-cat,magnex and a Viper ill be hoping to hit a flat 14 at 98/99.

zoog

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_t...urnPage=Search

Read this for a real world, real road Cup vWRX impreza test.

LG John

Zoog I read that at the time There is no debate that a cup will trouble a UK WRX in a straight line and as you said you were almost certainly the better driver in the twisties. I have owned a fwd hot-hatch and a scooby and on a tight twisty wet b-road no fwd car would keep up (driver 4 driver of course).

Neil, if you do post a gen' 14 dead at 99mph then a clio cup WILL be my next car, even if its just a weekend toy.

SiPie

I know someone who has a 1.8 zetec Focus that could match some scoobs through the twisties...dry or wet

PS The guy doesn't give a **** if he crashes it though and last night he demostrated his utter stupidity by beating a Celica 2.0GT 16v thingy through twisties .... allegedly..... maybe the Celica wasn't trying..

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Its amazing though that the last 2mph take 2secs as you need torque over downforce or else you just hit a brick wall (and the cup has a high cd value!)
I can believe 16 secs with filter, exhaust and chip but 14 secs is out of the question (and if anyone wishes to prove this point ill stay in 6th gear whilst they try to keep up )

Tony

Diablo

my old Integra would have kept up and indeed pulled away if in front of a standard UK classic scoob in the twisties.

It was 4WD.

Weighed appx 1080 kg and had 190 ps. only about 135 lbs ft of torque though.

Zero to 60 in appx 6.5 and to 100 in 16 and a bit (as tested by all the proprietry mags with TWO up and a full tank of fuel). Thats 9 seconds 60 to 100, or much the same as a classic 215 bhp classic scoob per the tests of a MY99. MY00's don't count cos they were slow as standard

So I recon with low fuel, one up and a good starting technique (lets be honest, max revs and sidestep the clutch as the mags test is NOT always the fastest way) and perhaps some better rubber the'Teg could have run a 0 to 100 in the mid 15's. No problem.

No reason why a lighter car with more torque and similar power couldn't do a 0 to 100 in 14.5.

Always thought my MY99 scoob was faster than the figures - and it would be with 100 kilos less with only me in it and low fuel.

A P1 with one up and low fuel should be less than 14.5 to 100, no doubt.

You can't compare magazine figures with real world.

Anyway, whats the power at wheels comparison for a heavier but more powerful Scoob with 4wd to a lighter but less powerful Cup with 2wd?

Diablo

to add.

A clio cup with 190 bhp and weighing, say, 960 kilos would have a power to weight ratio of nearly 200 bhp per tonne.

A Standard classic scoob has appx 170 bhp per tonne, and much higher driveline losses.

If the scoob can crack 100 in 14.5, why can't the clio?

D

LG John

If you can put your focus through that road anywhere near as quickly as you did the scooby (even in the dry) then I'll eat my hat. Granted it may handle very well but the time you took me for that drive all 4 wheels were fighting for grip out of every corner and the 4wd WAS being used!!

SiPie

Granted not as quick as the scoob ... but cause it's so **** it feels as quick

LG John

My hat is safe

LG John

Diablo its not just as simple as power to weight ratio especially when the speeds get up to 80mph and beyond. My 406 has a pwr of 135bhp per ton V's 140bhp per ton of my old Saxo but I assure you the pug is faster and especially so from 80mph onwards. In fact, from 80mph onwards the pug has the grunt to keep up with hot-hatches with a significantly superior p/w/r where those hatches have less outright power and torque. What I'm saying is when the P1 and Cup are still flat out at 80mph and accelerating my money is on the P1 showing were that extra 90bhp is

john banks

For the same reasons, a car with double the power of standard like mine may be WELL over double as quick to do an increment...

e.g standard MY00 turbo is about 15 seconds from 100-125mph, 434 BHP MY00 is about 3.4

With more power, despite the weight you can use it to overcome drag losses which become more significant nearer to top speed.

It is that wonderful property that makes powerful cars, even heavy ones, so beautifully linear.

mn_angrybeats

When has a Integra been 4WD LOL...

The thing with FWD cars is, ok traction and understeer can be a problem...you just seem to drive differently, maintain speed and use the road to your advantage...rather than heavy braking and accelerating

My Cooper S really hasnt at yet been majorly been humilated by anything really down the twisty stuff mainly because it inspires confidence..

The problem I seeing for the Clio is traction, 0-100 in 14 secs would be very difficult to achieve mainly because traction will be a problem, fit a LSD however and I suspect it might be achieveable...

I have only managed a 15.5 sec 96mph trap speed at a slippy Santa Pod in my lardy 1250kg 240hp Cooper S. Maybe if I took it to York or Crail I'd knock a second off ( wink / nudge ) , I have no doubt that a LSD would bring the time down but on the road I adjust the way I drive and an LSD would probably spoil the lovely steering feel , if I wanted to win traffic light grandprix I'd get one

Honda S2000 is a good example, ok RWD but once moving my Cooper S stays with them pretty well, off the line though it's a different matter and the S2000 would be long gone before I get going

Type R

Just to add fuel to the discussion.

My 1.6 CTR quite happily caught up and stuck to the back of Chris (Mellow Yellows) P1 in the rain, on twisties through the Lakes, but if we launched them at the same time, I would be spinning away as he disappeared off into the distance.

When you start talking about twisties, the ability of the driver comes into play a lot.

A RWD car is much harder to drive fast than a 4x4 or FWD.

1/4 my modded 1.6 CTR ran anything from my best 14.01 to 15.6 at the Pod, again much down to the driver getting a good start.

Do the rear seats in a Cup really weigh 25kilos !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Midmotorsteve

wind resistance goes up exponentially, you need lots of power when your already going fast to go faster, light weight doesn't cut it. Hense bike engined westies are f in rapid below a ton after that they loose puff. Hot hatches arn't exactly aerodynamic are they.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Quote:

Do the rear seats in a Cup really weigh 25kilos !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's a breakdown of when I weighed the bits...

Rear Seat (lower) - 5kg

Rear Sear (upper) - 10kg

Seat Mount Bar - 3kg

Jack & toolkit - 4kg

Parcel shelf - 1.5kg

Boot Floor & Carpet - 2kg



Total = 25.5kg



There's a LOT more weight saving in a 172 though, nearly double that of the Cup.

Eatpies

i know im gonna get proper flamed here (im looking for SAXO BOY here to cover me lol)
a mates VTS, supercharged, 190ish@fly 1/4 mile 14.2@101mph. so similar power cup, why not....

LG John

I never saw Matts car do much better than 14 dead and he 250bhp and was stripped with thus his saxo weighed just under 900kg.

Type R

In a FWD car the issue you have is launching the thing, so incredibly difficult to go much below 14 seconds, with out using cut slick or similar, you simply can not get the grip, I reckon I could have bolted a S/C on mine and not improved the time by much, as I had **** all traction

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

14.5 seconds, My Fiat Coupe does it in that time as standard, or at least thats what the figures say, I would say the wheels havent stopped spinning by 14.5 seconds when I try it.

Eatpies

Saxoboy, thats cos they couldnt get the thing of the line!
this saxo belongs to Marko (mark Picket)
did the time at crail
you must have seen Barry's demo car eat the M3, 2 up, windows down, leather interior, ice etc....
so it shows it can be done

Dark Blue Mark

Saw that clip and it amused me. He had the cheek to look at the M3 out his window most of the way up the strip

MB

Frazer

The "M3" in that video only ran a 14.1@102 or something, surely a M3 Cab should be in the 12's to 100?