zilch

LOL.. excellent,, skyline over a beemer (even an M) anyday..

SlowBoy

iTrader: (1)

Nothing imaginary about two of the nicest Skylines around. Both of which, incidently, were owned by Cem.

Cosworth427

You Skyline fanboys really need to learn to accept the car's short comings. It's number 1 flaw is it's power delivery doesn't match it's heavy kerb weight. It's power delivery depends too much on load and revs, and without that, the 6 cylinder engine is basically lifeless. On top of all that, take whatever power output you have from that engine, spooled or not spooled, and more of that power is lost through 4WD losses.

When you need INSTANT and consistent power delivery at ANY gear, the M3 is the choice of the 2. THAT is my reason for prefering it. But we have turboheads and Do-Luck Skyline fanboys have trouble find this reasoning to have any truth, despite having experience with both multiple turbo and NA cars. And DESPITE being easily proven by genuine Skyline owners by taking their car out for a quick drive and see how gutless their cars are at higher gears.

But no one here would want to shame their beloved car now would they???

Then people such as Cem should not condecend others for having valid opinions, simply because he owns 3 Skylines. In fact, knowing he owns 3 gutless, turbo laggy, heavy wagons shows how he lacks creditibility when it comes to having an open mind.

DavidBrown

For that split second, at which point the Skyline then pisses all over it.
It was at this point, I realised you are a troll.. I feel silly for not spotting it sooner

SDB

I tried SO HARD not to get involved in this thread, but I just couldn't help myself!

Cosworth, you really are missing the point (why do you have a username that is synonymous with Turbo engines?? - sorry off topic)...

Firstly, modern turbo's spool incredibly quickly, and if you know how to drive them well they are incredibly performant also. How many WRC cars don't run turbos - sorry, gone off topic again..

One technique you could use is Left foot braking. You can keep the turbo on-song continuously if you like. You'll end up with shed loads more torque than a similar (if it's possible to compare like for like) NA car when you release the brakes.

You could of course (on a circuit) just plan ahead, and be on the gas before you need it, so the turbo has spooled up in time for when you need it.

You also don't need WOT to get the turbo working, certainly not to get it working enough to remove almost all lag.

I beg to differ. The current world record for driving sideways is held by a standard subaru impreza. The car was balanced using precision and delicately balanced throttle control on a narrow slippy circular lane for over 2 hours. I find it hard to believe that the driver had to put up with a switch-style power delivery. (The legend that he is!! )

Agreed. That's in lap time, not the time between hitting the has and getting full power. Would you also say that the fact that a NA engine would be heavier so regardless of power output it would be slower than a turbo car? You have to take the whole package into account. Have you considered that a turbo car just needs to be driven differently?

--

If you take two engines, both weighing the same and put them in a car. One of them produces a more impressive torque curve than the other, it will be faster. So, if you are able to produce a NA engine with the same torque curve as a turbo engine, and they both weighed the same, they will be the same. If however the NA one weighs more, the turbo will be quicker.

It's not a case of "turbo is slow, NA is fast".

All the best

Simon

Cosworth427

No it won't, fanboy. The M3 comprehensively outperforms a GT-R on the roll. I have the scans for the acceleration times for every gear and speed range for the M3 if you need evidence.

SDB

Cosworth

Are we talking about rolling roads or real world performance? If you're talking about rolling roads, who knows whether you're correct.. and in-fact who cares.

Like the guys are trying to point out to you, that's for the pub. We prefer cars for the road.

All the best

Simon

Des

Hmmm

No doubt some more fat for the flames (sorry, Im referring to the previous page here)... isnt the F40 a 3 litre???

Ho hum

Cosworth427

Firstly, don't lecture me on engine design or working with turbochargers. "Incredibly quickly" is at best 0.5 seconds, that delay is long enough to make a turbocharged 400 HP car to perform like a 360 HP natural aspirated car.

"Incredibly quickly" is only true in W.O.T and in the right gear anyway. That's not very flexible, and not very useful for street driving. Try 30 MPH in 4th gear, punch the throttle, and see how long it takes to pick up to 50. 10/10 it will significantly be whole seconds behind an M3.

And don't even try and bring in WRC into this. Manfacturers can only enter cars that have engines with the same displacement as the production versions. Otherwise you'll be seeing 5, 6 litre natural aspirated powerplants rather than 2 litre turbocharged cars.

Don't confuse "getting the turbo working" with "full boost". There's a difference. When you want the best straight line acceleration, you want full boost and full throttle if there is traction available. Half throttle on a na car will normally be half power. This isn't the case with a turbo car. Half throttle could mean 1/4 power instead, turbos need energy for full boost to overcome the part throttle restriction to get anywhere close to 1/2 power. No progression.

The M3 (natural aspirated) weighs a little more, has less power, but still out performs a R34 GT-R in straight-line tests. That says it all. I'd happly provide detailed tests if you want to see them.


Oh, it looks like you don't understand engines when it comes to performance.


Real world performance of course. That's why I prefer the M3, far more flexible. The Skyline on the other hand is a dyno queen. It's optimal "torque curve" only exists on a dyno my friend. So who cares?....

Well, judging by the negative reactions to my choice of car, it looks like you turboheads do care, but can't accept the truth about the cars you rave on about.

Like I said, I am willing to explain more technical information and provide evidence about car performance, just spare me the "well when I drive it it *feels* faster" B.S.

p1virgin

Steady boys and girls - I thought this forum stuff was supposed to be fun? I am sure we can all appreciate great cars of all shapes, sizes, engine configurations etc. I don't pretend to know that much about the technical stuff but even if I did I wouldn't propose to get into a p!ssing contest over it. Why can't we just get along :-)

IPKIS

Heres the easy way to decide between both cars....
BMW M3= estate agent done good who THINKS he's a bit of a driver

Nissan Skyline = so cool you could keep a side of meat in it for a month and everyone dreams of owning one.

(just look at gran turismo on playstation!)

Cosworth427

I frankly don't care what car people prefer, they're both better than walking. , but I have my criteria for a performance car, and the M3 suits that more than the Skyline.

Midmotorsteve

who shifts to fourth or fifth at 30mph??????????? why would you want power if you did, isn't second or third what you'd do?????

sg72

Coz427
P'raps you better read threads below (M3 vScoob) And Above(Tuning M3)

Steve.

IPKIS

I'm just saying i've owned one of the cars and driven the other its my personal comparison and the M3 i drove had a AC SCNITZER conversion done on it and to me it was still a big pile of shiat couldn't pull the skin off cold custard and wheelspan like it was on ice no good for any driving in my opinion the guy who had it finally saw sense and sold it and bought an evo7 (sensible lad) Its no good having lots of power if your drivetrain can't put that power down quick wheel spins may impress the southend crowd but i preffer grip!

scoobypet

Jesus there are an awful lot of these successful estate agent types about
There in a nutshell is a good reason for not buying one .
(Not dissing the profession merely observing that new M3's are Bl**dy everywhere!)

ChrisChennell

Man, you people need to calm down. They are both bloody quick cars, and each of them requires a slightly different driving style to get the best out of them due to their aspiration types and other differences.

Nuff said.

I would take the skyline, just so i could have the cool gauge that shows where the power is being sent....

Aero Dynamic

The Nissan Skyline GTR has more Supercar status than a BMW M3 could dream of. To look at the BMW E46 M3 GTR is a better comparison.

Don't buy an M3 until you have driven a Skyline, if you like the thrill of driving you wont choose the M3.

An M3 is a great car but not in the same league as the Skyline. (and yes i have driven both)

Veracocha

Good post, with a little bullcrap in between!

I believe someone has dramatically understated the weight on the R-34 Skyline. I have rarely seen it quoted below 1600kg in the UK witch makes it heavier than the M3.

Also the R-34 is not renowned for its searing lap times. It is slower than the R-33 (Nissan deliberately made it that way) and would certainly have difficulty sticking with a lighter 4WD rally rep like an EVO6 (with equal drivers) unless on a track with massive, flat straights.

Its all down to choice really. It has been proven that RWD will outperform 4WD on track because of its balance and weight advantage but then on the road this is not the case.

I would be chuffed to bits with an M3 or R-34. Both are class cars and people shouldn't let the image some bad drivers give them deduct from the fun they provide.

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

LOL, nothing like a reasoned discussion

If you plan on keeping the car standard then I'd go for the M3, however if you are happy to throw money at the car making it quicker then it'd be the GTR.

On the other hand, if you like racing other cars from 30mph in 4th gear save yourself 15+k and just get a chipped turbo diesel

I would have been happy to have my turbo charged car (not a GTR) shamed by an M3, but with the anti-lag switched on I'm not sure that would happen in this somewhat strange test.

14,500rpm

The only answer is to try them both and see which you like ther best - you might not like either. I haven't driven them so can't give much of an opinion but as others don't seem to let this stop them i won't either - my vote is Skyline, to me they are more special and not just another 3 series variant.

Bluie

As been said before try them both to see if you like either. Ran a UK GTR34 for a year, I personally chose over the M3 as I prefer cars that you do not see ever day of the week, the later you see everywhere now.

If you go down the Skyline route the minimum you will want to do is an exhaust and induction kit which will give circa 400bhp which is how the car should have come out of the box, not expensive at around £2k, but makes a hell of a difference on power delivery and not forgetting the noise.

At the end of the day it's horses for courses, some prefer the need for a badge, but nothing wrong with Datsun.

IwantAscoob

when you see an m3 on the road you think, nice car, fast, but so common now they are like audi tt's.

cosworth you are talking a cart full of fine quality horse manure, lets face it both are very quick in the real world, but the skyline has the x-factor, the bmw has the i live in soho square and run a gay dong company factor.

we would all rather own the r34 gtr, cos it has an image of being a total beast, and the m3 has an image of "going to hampstead for a quickie in the bush with the cute ***".

as someone said before, leave your pub talk to the freehouse, and spare these on here of your total bull****.

i thank you and i bid you all a good night.

ChrisChennell

LOL!


hes right you know

DavidBrown

Indeed..
http://www.gtr.co.uk/html/technical/r34.asp


Would this be the Nissan Skyline that held an (un)official lap record of the Nurburgring ?

Since we keep hearing the "from 40mph" argument, have a look at this:

http://195.60.14.69/picdir/skyline/Sky40-140.wmv

This was my R34 Skyline, with a free-flow exhaust and induction kit (otherwise bog standard)

I defy you to show me an M3 that can do this.

image doctor

I just see a Skyline as a max power car. A car to buy if you like bolting stuff on.

The people who crave them are the chavs the max power generation/playstation generation.

The M3 is class, OK you can't tune it.....but you know, an this may come as a shock, but some people just want a nice fast car out of the box.

Dream Weaver

I love it when people dont listen

Cosworth - you are still going on, even after david middleton said on the last page that he had owned both cars, and the Skyline was so much better.

And whats all this "punch the throttle in 5th gear at 30mph" business???? Who does that, and how easy it is to change to 2nd.

Skyline all the way for me - BMW's are for pimps and dealers

st/EVO

my e36 3.2 m3 evo is a great car, you dont see many like mine about, i bought it because it was the best car i had seen for my 15k budget, it aint no estate agent car. the estate agents round my way drive 996's is that crap because estate agents drive them?
my car is lowered and stiffened and handling is spot on.at the moment it is 320 bhp but soon a new exhaust and an induction kit will improve that.
also you need to be a reasonably competent driver to drive it well,the skyline does not need the same skill to drive fast and well, not knocking the skyline if i had had 30k to spend i would have considered one. but i suppose i am a bit of a traditionalist i think a car should have 2 doors an engine in the front and be rwd with as much power as possible, be it na or turbo power i dont care like i said b4 i want a car to be fun, i am sure the skyline is fun, i used to have a honda s2000 that was much more fun than a integra type r (which is the best handling fwd car that i have ever driven) simply because it was rwd, went for the m3 because the power delivery is effortless not like the vtec's which you have to work really hard (i get better fuel consu from my 3.2 beamer than i did from my 2.2 accord type r
at the end of the day everyone is different and everyone is entitled to an opinion wether you agree with them or not

tiggers

What's the issue here?

The M3 is not just a car it's a BMW and has mystical powers (according to half the people on here anyway).

The Skyline is just a car.

So M3 it is then

tiggers.

CraigH

This is the problem when people are brought up on Scoobys/EVOs etc. They can't drive anything without 4wd

David,

I think it's quite well accepted that the Skyline that held the unoffical 'Ring lap time was hardly standard. Not saying they're not quick on track because they are. Very, especially for something so heavy.