WR1 or M3
10 March 2004, 08:35 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by SomeDude
Chuck has turned into Chavster 
Craig, you're not German by any chance are you ? 
I think he must be......... and a M3 driver,,,,, bad looser....lol
Never seen "Natsi" ""sorry "****""spelled this way
Craig, you're not German by any chance are you ?
I think he must be......... and a M3 driver,,,,, bad looser....lol
Never seen "Natsi" ""sorry "****""spelled this way
I had a bad day yesterday and took it out on our European guests....... having a german manager as well does not help, git....... we want more money but everyone knows management and what they are like........
Like a M3 driver, full of promise but never pulls through.........
Any further news on the WR1 delivery dates?
Is there one in the country yet?
Has anyone got any cool pictures available?
10 March 2004, 09:05 AM
#93
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M3 is better than a WR1. Quality, classiness and so on. It is a better car. Full stop.
If you want the WR1 for its rally style of drive then OK - that is a good choice and its 'the best of the best' in that field. But any argument that ANY Impreza is BETTER than an e46 M3 is quite simply laughable.
We are not comparing like for like are we. Typical of this site....
If you want the WR1 for its rally style of drive then OK - that is a good choice and its 'the best of the best' in that field. But any argument that ANY Impreza is BETTER than an e46 M3 is quite simply laughable.
We are not comparing like for like are we. Typical of this site....
Last edited by Senior_AP; 10 March 2004 at 09:08 AM.
10 March 2004, 09:19 AM
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Most magazines would rate an M3 as a realistic alternative to a 911.
Scoobs aren't. They may well be as quick, but as a package they're a long way short of either of those 2.
Hand on heart, what exactly do Scoobs/EVO's etc have in their "package" apart from being quick and handling well? Absolutely nothing
If you buy a car on those strengths, you may as well get a Radical. Then theres no real argument about what is quicker or handles better.
Scoobs aren't. They may well be as quick, but as a package they're a long way short of either of those 2.
Hand on heart, what exactly do Scoobs/EVO's etc have in their "package" apart from being quick and handling well? Absolutely nothing
If you buy a car on those strengths, you may as well get a Radical. Then theres no real argument about what is quicker or handles better.
10 March 2004, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CraigH
Most magazines would rate an M3 as a realistic alternative to a 911.
Scoobs aren't. They may well be as quick, but as a package they're a long way short of either of those 2.
Hand on heart, what exactly do Scoobs/EVO's etc have in their "package" apart from being quick and handling well? Absolutely nothing If you buy a car on those strengths, you may as well get a Radical. Then theres no real argument about what is quicker or handles better.
Scoobs aren't. They may well be as quick, but as a package they're a long way short of either of those 2.
Hand on heart, what exactly do Scoobs/EVO's etc have in their "package" apart from being quick and handling well? Absolutely nothing
If you buy a car on those strengths, you may as well get a Radical. Then theres no real argument about what is quicker or handles better.Spot on mate!! ALso, I feel that "handling" and "grip" are two very different things though. M3 may well handle better than a WR1 (maybe). Grip is one thing but a fine handling car is diferent.
Nice to see there are a few on this thread that are realistic. Realistic alternative to 911 - exactly.
10 March 2004, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
M3 is better than a WR1. Quality, classiness and so on. It is a better car. Full stop.
If you want the WR1 for its rally style of drive then OK - that is a good choice and its 'the best of the best' in that field. But any argument that ANY Impreza is BETTER than an e46 M3 is quite simply laughable.
We are not comparing like for like are we. Typical of this site....
If you want the WR1 for its rally style of drive then OK - that is a good choice and its 'the best of the best' in that field. But any argument that ANY Impreza is BETTER than an e46 M3 is quite simply laughable.
We are not comparing like for like are we. Typical of this site....
And the door is just over ..... there! Byeeee
10 March 2004, 09:41 AM
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with each car there's an image.
Some like the M3 image and label that is attached, not just a M3 but also a BMW driver's.
We, the majority love the looks, performance and driving style of the Scooby.
Yes we understand it is a cheaper car, less than 15% of the development cost that went in to the M3. So you would expect a better built car for one.
Remember we are not buying the car for the build quality
Performance >> cost >> looks >> performance.
If I had the extra 15 k for the M3 I would would go for something British.
NOBEL............. need I say anything more
Scooby = WRC rally car
Nobel racing car
M3 = Not a rally car, not a racing car but more a touring car.
So we have 3 brackets and I would not put the Nobel against any, it would win hands down.
3 classes, 3 cars and not really a fare comparison.
We all know that the car you have is the car you want, I for one watch WRC, play the play station, hence the Scooby......... who here watches M3 racing, no one I guess.
The Scooby turns out to be a more popular and likable car by the masses.
Some like the M3 image and label that is attached, not just a M3 but also a BMW driver's.
We, the majority love the looks, performance and driving style of the Scooby.
Yes we understand it is a cheaper car, less than 15% of the development cost that went in to the M3. So you would expect a better built car for one.
Remember we are not buying the car for the build quality
Performance >> cost >> looks >> performance.
If I had the extra 15 k for the M3 I would would go for something British.
NOBEL............. need I say anything more
Scooby = WRC rally car
Nobel racing car
M3 = Not a rally car, not a racing car but more a touring car.
So we have 3 brackets and I would not put the Nobel against any, it would win hands down.
3 classes, 3 cars and not really a fare comparison.
We all know that the car you have is the car you want, I for one watch WRC, play the play station, hence the Scooby......... who here watches M3 racing, no one I guess.
The Scooby turns out to be a more popular and likable car by the masses.
10 March 2004, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Clive the Brave
with each car there's an image.
Some like the M3 image and label that is attached, not just a M3 but also a BMW driver's.
We, the majority love the looks, performance and driving style of the Scooby.
Yes we understand it is a cheaper car, less than 15% of the development cost that went in to the M3. So you would expect a better built car for one.
Remember we are not buying the car for the build quality
Performance >> cost >> looks >> performance.
If I had the extra 15 k for the M3 I would would go for something British.
NOBEL............. need I say anything more
Scooby = WRC rally car
Nobel racing car
M3 = Not a rally car, not a racing car but more a touring car.
So we have 3 brackets and I would not put the Nobel against any, it would win hands down.
3 classes, 3 cars and not really a fare comparison.
We all know that the car you have is the car you want, I for one watch WRC, play the play station, hence the Scooby......... who here watches M3 racing, no one I guess.
The Scooby turns out to be a more popular and likable car by the masses.
Some like the M3 image and label that is attached, not just a M3 but also a BMW driver's.
We, the majority love the looks, performance and driving style of the Scooby.
Yes we understand it is a cheaper car, less than 15% of the development cost that went in to the M3. So you would expect a better built car for one.
Remember we are not buying the car for the build quality
Performance >> cost >> looks >> performance.
If I had the extra 15 k for the M3 I would would go for something British.
NOBEL............. need I say anything more
Scooby = WRC rally car
Nobel racing car
M3 = Not a rally car, not a racing car but more a touring car.
So we have 3 brackets and I would not put the Nobel against any, it would win hands down.
3 classes, 3 cars and not really a fare comparison.
We all know that the car you have is the car you want, I for one watch WRC, play the play station, hence the Scooby......... who here watches M3 racing, no one I guess.
The Scooby turns out to be a more popular and likable car by the masses.
Again - exactly. There's no point comparing non-comparable cars. It just turns into a "may car is better than your car" type rant.
Last edited by Senior_AP; 10 March 2004 at 09:46 AM.
10 March 2004, 09:48 AM
#100
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I find it laughable that anyone can say this is better than the other.... One is only better than the other in your opinion!!!!! Not mine but i don't sit here and slag either off jus see the merits for both.
Don't see the point in posting if your not going to be constructive about it?!
Don't see the point in posting if your not going to be constructive about it?!
10 March 2004, 09:50 AM
#101
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Originally Posted by P1_BEN
I find it laughable that anyone can say this is better than the other.... One is only better than the other in your opinion!!!!! Not mine but i don't sit here and slag either off jus see the merits for both.
Don't see the point in posting if your not going to be constructive about it?!
Don't see the point in posting if your not going to be constructive about it?!
Getting boring isn't it. Too many threads like this. They're just different - simple.
10 March 2004, 09:55 AM
#103
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I'd take the M3. For build quality, residual value, servicing cost, insurance cost, etc etc. The WR1 is no doubt a fine car, but having done the rally rep thing and moved on, I'd be after something more fulfilling. The WR1 would be fine, but you'll always have that nagging doubt in your mind that you're missing something. You'd be missing 6 cylinders and four tailpipes. I can't genuinely believe that given the choice, people (even on Scoobynet) would take the WR1 over the M3.
Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
And finally, leave the "what about the wet twisties" comments out. An M3 is more than capable in the wet. They are better than my old E39 M5, and my M5 has been known to drive around the outside of Subarus and Cossies at Donington in the wet. Rest assured that an M3 will be OK on a twisty A-B road. Sure, the M3 driver will need more skill and control to keep it between the hedges, but for me, that's the appealing part.
If you want a car that grips and can understeer from A-B quickly, get a WR1
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
I can't genuinely believe that given the choice, people (even on Scoobynet) would take the WR1 over the M3. Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
And finally, leave the "what about the wet twisties" comments out. An M3 is more than capable in the wet. They are better than my old E39 M5, and my M5 has been known to drive around the outside of Subarus and Cossies at Donington in the wet. Rest assured that an M3 will be OK on a twisty A-B road. Sure, the M3 driver will need more skill and control to keep it between the hedges, but for me, that's the appealing part.
If you want a car that grips and can understeer from A-B quickly, get a WR1
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
10 March 2004, 10:00 AM
#104
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The verdict!
Isn't this what the site is all about...opinions!?
I would always take an Impreza over an M3 they are far too much of a 'reps' car - get one of those and you are taking yourself way too seriously....
I personally would never aspire to the 911 type brigade, there are much better cars to be had in that sort of league (and this is coming from someone who has a relative who used to be a Porsche test driver in the early years)...
It would be a Type 25 for me too, sorry WR1 has been pipped by this monster, and I would be grinning from ear to ear!
I would always take an Impreza over an M3 they are far too much of a 'reps' car - get one of those and you are taking yourself way too seriously....
I personally would never aspire to the 911 type brigade, there are much better cars to be had in that sort of league (and this is coming from someone who has a relative who used to be a Porsche test driver in the early years)...
It would be a Type 25 for me too, sorry WR1 has been pipped by this monster, and I would be grinning from ear to ear!
Last edited by Devils Advocate; 10 March 2004 at 10:09 AM.
10 March 2004, 10:07 AM
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Uber Alles?
Originally Posted by MattOz
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
Originally Posted by MattOz
I'd take the M3 as I had a strict disciplinarian German upbringing. I am also in denial about my Oedipus complex and have a strange almost obsessive fixation with tail-pipes
Last edited by Devils Advocate; 10 March 2004 at 10:17 AM.
10 March 2004, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MattOz
I'd take the M3. For build quality, residual value, servicing cost, insurance cost, etc etc. The WR1 is no doubt a fine car, but having done the rally rep thing and moved on, I'd be after something more fulfilling. The WR1 would be fine, but you'll always have that nagging doubt in your mind that you're missing something. You'd be missing 6 cylinders and four tailpipes. I can't genuinely believe that given the choice, people (even on Scoobynet) would take the WR1 over the M3.
Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
And finally, leave the "what about the wet twisties" comments out. An M3 is more than capable in the wet. They are better than my old E39 M5, and my M5 has been known to drive around the outside of Subarus and Cossies at Donington in the wet. Rest assured that an M3 will be OK on a twisty A-B road. Sure, the M3 driver will need more skill and control to keep it between the hedges, but for me, that's the appealing part.
If you want a car that grips and can understeer from A-B quickly, get a WR1
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
I can't genuinely believe that given the choice, people (even on Scoobynet) would take the WR1 over the M3. Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
And finally, leave the "what about the wet twisties" comments out. An M3 is more than capable in the wet. They are better than my old E39 M5, and my M5 has been known to drive around the outside of Subarus and Cossies at Donington in the wet. Rest assured that an M3 will be OK on a twisty A-B road. Sure, the M3 driver will need more skill and control to keep it between the hedges, but for me, that's the appealing part.
If you want a car that grips and can understeer from A-B quickly, get a WR1
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
YES, YES, YES AND YES!! The mentality is increasing as the thread goes on. "hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails" - excellent comment. Couldn't have put it better myself.
10 March 2004, 10:19 AM
#107
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NOBEL............. need I say anything more
There is NO DOUBT, that a Scoob is very good at what it does - and what it does is provide performance cheaply. Everything else takes a back seat, hence it being poorly built, very unefficient, nasty looks, interior, comfort etc. Same with EVO's. You can't expect to have a car that is as good overall as an M3, for that "little" money. Not new.
If you want the ultimate for £35k as an overall package, get an older 993 RS. Great on road, bullet proof on track, appreciates nowadays, not depreciates.
Plus they'll run rings round all but the most tuned Imprezas on track. And then be able to drive back home without any worries as to what you may have done to it.
10 March 2004, 10:22 AM
#108
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
lol - very witty. I can laugh at that. I am right though aren't I. M3 vs WR1.....why?????!?!
10 March 2004, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MattOz
Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
Very patronising
Great stuff - up the the fwd comment... then i fell about laughing...
Buy an M3 - Look like a *****
Jza
10 March 2004, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MattOz
I'd take the M3. For build quality, residual value, servicing cost, insurance cost, etc etc. The WR1 is no doubt a fine car, but having done the rally rep thing and moved on, I'd be after something more fulfilling. The WR1 would be fine, but you'll always have that nagging doubt in your mind that you're missing something. You'd be missing 6 cylinders and four tailpipes. I can't genuinely believe that given the choice, people (even on Scoobynet) would take the WR1 over the M3.
Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
And finally, leave the "what about the wet twisties" comments out. An M3 is more than capable in the wet. They are better than my old E39 M5, and my M5 has been known to drive around the outside of Subarus and Cossies at Donington in the wet. Rest assured that an M3 will be OK on a twisty A-B road. Sure, the M3 driver will need more skill and control to keep it between the hedges, but for me, that's the appealing part.
If you want a car that grips and can understeer from A-B quickly, get a WR1
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
I can't genuinely believe that given the choice, people (even on Scoobynet) would take the WR1 over the M3. Regarding handling, most Subaru, Evo etc owners hide behind AWD or 4WD like a child hides behind his/her mothers skirt tails. If you want to learn about "Handling" and "Feel", get a proper rwd or fwd car.
And finally, leave the "what about the wet twisties" comments out. An M3 is more than capable in the wet. They are better than my old E39 M5, and my M5 has been known to drive around the outside of Subarus and Cossies at Donington in the wet. Rest assured that an M3 will be OK on a twisty A-B road. Sure, the M3 driver will need more skill and control to keep it between the hedges, but for me, that's the appealing part.
If you want a car that grips and can understeer from A-B quickly, get a WR1
If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3.
Matt
P.S I'm tall, blond an Aryan, so that must make me German! LOL
err forgive me for bing think... but I'm not.. but isn't handleing tested by most hacks be seeing how quick a said motor will go around a track...
Forget B road becouse a STi would be in the distance on any bumby B road...! but all handling tests are carried out on a track...
That being the case the m3 handles so well it ended up 1.5 seconds behind the Sti on the top gear track.. & 1.6 seconds adrift on the bedford autodrome. or and 6 seconds behind a Spec-C...
oh dear... And that's without adding any goodies to the Sti , you could get Sti to roughly the same times as the spec c with only a small amount of tinkering!
That leaves the M3 as a fast motorway cruiser that handles well... and is super comfy...
I like M3's don't get me wrong but like i said the M3 is just too clinical... can't argure with the german buid quailty... I work for a German company and thier engineering is world class... without a doudt...
dazza
10 March 2004, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 6 pot
Because they are 2 options that I am looking at.
10 March 2004, 10:34 AM
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Cheers Dazza
Originally Posted by Dazza's-STi
"If you want a car that handles whilst going from A-B, get the M3"
err forgive me for bing think... but I'm not.. but isn't handleing tested by most hacks be seeing how quick a said motor will go around a track...
Forget B road becouse a STi would be in the distance on any bumby B road...! but all handling tests are carried out on a track...
That being the case the m3 handles so well it ended up 1.5 seconds behind the Sti on the top gear track.. & 1.6 seconds adrift on the bedford autodrome. or and 6 seconds behind a Spec-C... oh dear...
And that's without adding any goodies to the Sti , you could get Sti to roughly the same times as the spec c with only a small amount of tinkering!
That leaves the M3 as a fast motorway cruiser that handles well... and is super comfy...
I like M3's don't get me wrong but like i said the M3 is just too clinical... can't argure with the german buid quailty... I work for a German company and thier engineering is world class... without a doudt...
dazza
err forgive me for bing think... but I'm not.. but isn't handleing tested by most hacks be seeing how quick a said motor will go around a track...
Forget B road becouse a STi would be in the distance on any bumby B road...! but all handling tests are carried out on a track...
That being the case the m3 handles so well it ended up 1.5 seconds behind the Sti on the top gear track.. & 1.6 seconds adrift on the bedford autodrome. or and 6 seconds behind a Spec-C...
oh dear... And that's without adding any goodies to the Sti , you could get Sti to roughly the same times as the spec c with only a small amount of tinkering!
That leaves the M3 as a fast motorway cruiser that handles well... and is super comfy...
I like M3's don't get me wrong but like i said the M3 is just too clinical... can't argure with the german buid quailty... I work for a German company and thier engineering is world class... without a doudt...
dazza
I think you have just hit the nail on the head " Fast Motorway Cruiser" and if that is the case I am glad that I put the deposit down on the WR1, why cruise fast on a motorway, seems a very boring place to go fast straight and congested, with lots of speed traps, lets get out onto the B Roads and enjoy the composure of the Scooby, long live the scoob thats what I say.#
I think my thread has been answered.
10 March 2004, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Or it could be the fact that it is simply a better car. Reality check.
You can't definitively say whether one is better than the other as it's only opinion.
For performance and handling there's not much in it so if those are the criteria on which you buy a car then the WR1 at significantly less cost is the better option. The stupid thing is most buyers will not be able to drive either car to it's maximum potential so performance stats set by professional drivers mean nothing.
If you want refinement, comfort, better residuals etc. etc. and that whole BMW M power b0llocks malarky then get an M3.
Simple really!
Anyway I'm out of here on this one as personally I can't stand the whole image surrounding the M3 and the over hyped opinion of it's abilities held by most people thanks to the ultimate driving machine marketing twaddle that BMW trot out time and time again. For those reasons alone I would enver bother with one. If as mentioned above it really competes against a Porsche get a Porsche - at least then your getting a car designed as a performance car from the outset from a marque with some racing pedigree.
tiggers.
10 March 2004, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 6 pot
Dazza,
I think you have just hit the nail on the head " Fast Motorway Cruiser" and if that is the case I am glad that I put the deposit down on the WR1, why cruise fast on a motorway, seems a very boring place to go fast straight and congested, with lots of speed traps, lets get out onto the B Roads and enjoy the composure of the Scooby, long live the scoob thats what I say.#
I think my thread has been answered.
I think you have just hit the nail on the head " Fast Motorway Cruiser" and if that is the case I am glad that I put the deposit down on the WR1, why cruise fast on a motorway, seems a very boring place to go fast straight and congested, with lots of speed traps, lets get out onto the B Roads and enjoy the composure of the Scooby, long live the scoob thats what I say.#
I think my thread has been answered.
10 March 2004, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tiggers
Yes it could, but it isn't!!!
You can't definitively say whether one is better than the other as it's only opinion.
For performance and handling there's not much in it so if those are the criteria on which you buy a car then the WR1 at significantly less cost is the better option. The stupid thing is most buyers will not be able to drive either car to it's maximum potential so performance stats set by professional drivers mean nothing.
If you want refinement, comfort, better residuals etc. etc. and that whole BMW M power b0llocks malarky then get an M3.
Simple really!
Anyway I'm out of here on this one as personally I can't stand the whole image surrounding the M3 and the over hyped opinion of it's abilities held by most people thanks to the ultimate driving machine marketing twaddle that BMW trot out time and time again. For those reasons alone I would enver bother with one. If as mentioned above it really competes against a Porsche get a Porsche - at least then your getting a car designed as a performance car from the outset from a marque with some racing pedigree.
tiggers.
You can't definitively say whether one is better than the other as it's only opinion.
For performance and handling there's not much in it so if those are the criteria on which you buy a car then the WR1 at significantly less cost is the better option. The stupid thing is most buyers will not be able to drive either car to it's maximum potential so performance stats set by professional drivers mean nothing.
If you want refinement, comfort, better residuals etc. etc. and that whole BMW M power b0llocks malarky then get an M3.
Simple really!
Anyway I'm out of here on this one as personally I can't stand the whole image surrounding the M3 and the over hyped opinion of it's abilities held by most people thanks to the ultimate driving machine marketing twaddle that BMW trot out time and time again. For those reasons alone I would enver bother with one. If as mentioned above it really competes against a Porsche get a Porsche - at least then your getting a car designed as a performance car from the outset from a marque with some racing pedigree.
tiggers.
Last edited by Senior_AP; 10 March 2004 at 10:40 AM.
10 March 2004, 10:41 AM
#116
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Wasn't a dig at you. Your question is valid - just the "comparing" that people wanna do that does my head in. Have you come closer to any decisions ??
Deposit was put down on the WR1 4 weeks ago, just thought it would make an interesting thread
10 March 2004, 10:41 AM
#117
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Originally Posted by Jiggerypokery
Is Hitler still alive? Is he relevant to this thread? Do ze ***** run BMW? Can you really not think of anything good to come out of Germany?
Just because we fought Germany in a war doesn't mean that they can't produce a great car or two. I bought a subaru because it's Japanese, and they've always been our friends.
10 March 2004, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 6 pot
Deposit was put down on the WR1 4 weeks ago, just thought it would make an interesting thread
10 March 2004, 10:52 AM
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I just love threads like this comparing vehicles when nobody's actually driven more than one of them (if either) 
Having driven the WR1 extensively I can confirm that whilst it may not have the ultimate grip of the M3, more drivers will be able to approach it's limits safely and therefore ultimately drive it quicker. It's performance is more than a match for any of the figures posted on this thread as well.......
Basically, in dynamic terms a WR1 has the latest M3 sorted but that isn't the whole picture and it depends on your own personal needs.
Regards
Mike
Having driven the WR1 extensively I can confirm that whilst it may not have the ultimate grip of the M3, more drivers will be able to approach it's limits safely and therefore ultimately drive it quicker. It's performance is more than a match for any of the figures posted on this thread as well.......
Basically, in dynamic terms a WR1 has the latest M3 sorted but that isn't the whole picture and it depends on your own personal needs.
Regards
Mike
10 March 2004, 10:54 AM
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Having driven a bmw 320ci for 7 months I then bought my scoob... I love the raw
thrill of driving my subaru though - it is brutal and fast, has a fairly
good feel for the road and feels like you want to race places just for
the hell of it... the bmw on the other hand was refined, quiet and
quite quick too. It didnt have the outright accel etc of the scoob, but
it also didnt have the HP. when you stepped into it, it was cosy, clean
lines and nice to drive. you could drive 500km without needing to stop
to rest.. it is a nice car to drive, and hence why I would go for an M3
- it has the refinement, all extras Tüv approved, great service team if
needed and all the extra bits that one needs to have a nice car.. it
also has the power and can also thrill you if you want this too. I
think that is what misses with the scoob. the newer ones are quite $$
and for that money you get an outdated AWD system - which sometimes does
what it should - but DCCD? YOU as the driver have to MANUALLY change the
torque distribution ?? stupid IMHO - better would be an active system
which actively changes depending on the situtation..
for all this extra $$ you still dont really get much.. the interior is
still poor and plastic, the layout is still flat (not driver orientated
dials/controls etc). It has lots of addon bits though - brembo brakes,
sport seats, sports steering wheel etc etc.. but it still remains a boy
racer type car, which, is still clinging to the hope that the older
original car owners will clamber into this massive new vehicle... The
aerodynamics and lines of the new car still dont do anything for me,..
I had hoped they would redesign the new one, actually spend time in a
wind tunnel and remove the blockiness of the car, make the back window a
slighter angle so as to remove the circling air there etc. The wing? I
mean there really is no need for such a wing - except to look good - the
wing on the CSL for example is more of a lip than anything - it looks
neat and tidy, and not so in your fact like steves picknick table. the
aerodynamics of the car are unfortunately woeful. Take one look under
the car and they havent done anything.. put a plastic covering the
entire length of the car - make it smooth, and it will be more efficient
- and will then produce more downforce than the wing will..
subaru has unfortunately not done anything special for the new
generation.. it is a nice car, but for me it fails in so many ways that
I would take a power cut to get into something better for similar (or
less) money.
Now people who know me will understand this...
Neal.
PS: morning
thrill of driving my subaru though - it is brutal and fast, has a fairly
good feel for the road and feels like you want to race places just for
the hell of it... the bmw on the other hand was refined, quiet and
quite quick too. It didnt have the outright accel etc of the scoob, but
it also didnt have the HP. when you stepped into it, it was cosy, clean
lines and nice to drive. you could drive 500km without needing to stop
to rest.. it is a nice car to drive, and hence why I would go for an M3
- it has the refinement, all extras Tüv approved, great service team if
needed and all the extra bits that one needs to have a nice car.. it
also has the power and can also thrill you if you want this too. I
think that is what misses with the scoob. the newer ones are quite $$
and for that money you get an outdated AWD system - which sometimes does
what it should - but DCCD? YOU as the driver have to MANUALLY change the
torque distribution ?? stupid IMHO - better would be an active system
which actively changes depending on the situtation..
for all this extra $$ you still dont really get much.. the interior is
still poor and plastic, the layout is still flat (not driver orientated
dials/controls etc). It has lots of addon bits though - brembo brakes,
sport seats, sports steering wheel etc etc.. but it still remains a boy
racer type car, which, is still clinging to the hope that the older
original car owners will clamber into this massive new vehicle... The
aerodynamics and lines of the new car still dont do anything for me,..
I had hoped they would redesign the new one, actually spend time in a
wind tunnel and remove the blockiness of the car, make the back window a
slighter angle so as to remove the circling air there etc. The wing? I
mean there really is no need for such a wing - except to look good - the
wing on the CSL for example is more of a lip than anything - it looks
neat and tidy, and not so in your fact like steves picknick table. the
aerodynamics of the car are unfortunately woeful. Take one look under
the car and they havent done anything.. put a plastic covering the
entire length of the car - make it smooth, and it will be more efficient
- and will then produce more downforce than the wing will..
subaru has unfortunately not done anything special for the new
generation.. it is a nice car, but for me it fails in so many ways that
I would take a power cut to get into something better for similar (or
less) money.
Now people who know me will understand this...
Neal.
PS: morning