quote: "How anyone who advocates MG as a brand has the nerve to criticise Porsche I don't know"

Perhaps because he's a senile old fool?

 

I just think that there are a few people out there that ride on the fact they own a porsche.... I can afford a porsche, after reading the autocar report last week I could buy a lambo!!! my point was based around buying the bottom of the brand rather than the best of it..!!

 

My argument is that this "poor man's..." argument can apply to every car on the road.

A Clio is a poor man's Safrane
A 318 is a poor man's M5
A 106 is a poor man's 406
A 380M is a poor man's Enzo

"I can afford a porsche"

So you have nothing to prove. Most Boxster drivers have nothing to prove either, they bought a great car which suits them. Using the poor man's argument as a put down is lame, when it boils down to it, most people buy the car they can afford and the car they like.

 

"Poor man's 911 " ? Usually said by a person that's driven neither.

I've owned a Boxster, test driven a 996 Cabriolet, and owned a 996 GT2.. and I reckon the Boxster is a cracking little car.. I can't see why anyone would prefer a 996 Cabriolet to the Boxster to be honest..

 

Our two main weapons are, fear, suprise, and ruthless efficiency.
dave

 

NACRO and BLOKE

>>How anyone who advocates MG as a brand has the nerve to criticise Porsche I don't know...<<

Relatively easily ... the facts speak for themselves.... seen it with my own eyes!!!

No nerve involved ...... . the facts are there ..... for all to see .... except for prematurely blind immature anti-brits like some folks I could mention....

Suggest you read it ....

DavidBrown WROTE:

..I don't think anyone is claiming that every single Boxster ever made is hewn from granite, it's not reasonable to think that no company makes no errors.

However, compared to most cars from most manufacturers I believe the Boxster is very well screwed together.

You will always find someone who's had problems, that's life.<<

What a refreshing point of view .... unlike some folks I could mention..... and surely with a 'name' like that you must drive one of those Newport Pagnall efforts too? ..

 

Well said simon!!! like saying poor mans scoob if ya aint got P1/22b/sti8 and you got the lowly wrx.

ignorance is bliss;-)

 

I still want to know where this extra 30bhp is supposed to come from!

 

In your dreams I think!

 

The problem with this poor mans 911 argument is that now the Boxster has come out people who earlier COULDNT afford a 911 can now buy a "cheap" new porsche hence the brand isnt as exclusive as it once was............ me i wouldnt buy a boxster id rather have a "proper" porsche............after all there is only one the 911

 

Boxster S, good power, good handling, good brakes, good build quality, but the word fantastic never springs to mind, a lot of cars that are cheaper, you would use that word about different aspects, and it has its weaknesses, like build quality as lets be honest Imprezza's, Evo's, Lotus etc arent a patch on it.

I don't like them, too common, not really as quick as you think, great in a straight line, but can be out handled by many a cheaper car through twisties and rounabouts, and that image.

 

I gather the engine is relatively unstressed - and the bhp is kept lower to stop it competing with 911's .....
Extra bhp using hi-flow cats and a freer flowing backbox, coupled with a new air filter and re-chip .....
G-Force Motorsport were explaining all of this when I saw them a couple of weeks ago

 

Can someone explain, apart from marketing, what's to stop dropping a 911 lump in a Boxster S? Are they different engines?

From what I've read, the Boxster is technically far superior, more interesting to drive, and well thought-out and beautifully balanced, whereas the 911 is making the best of a bad job (engine out the back). Can't someone just give the Boxster the 911's engine, thus uprate it by 50 bhp or so, dropping the 0-60 below 5, and you'd have a hell of a car?

Apologies if I'm talking rectally, but I wonder if it's a real case of emperor's new clothes. I assume they're pretty much the same engine, if they're not then my argument falls flat and I'll retire chastised.

 

There's nothing to stop you at all - all the Porsche engines are interchangable AFAIK. But have you seen how much the engines cost? Also, one of the best things about Porsche is the residual values - which you risk when you start changing engines! I'd quite like a Boxster S for the summer. Main thing stopping me is that my girlfriend's ex had one and I suggested that he was a bit of a ponce for driving around in a car like that Watched a rerun of 5th gear last night with Tiff throwing one around on Angelsea circuit.. looked like fun!

 

RUF have already done just that.

310 bhp 996 engine

 

Chipping NA cars is a waste of time unless you make significant changes to the gas flow. Airfilter and sports cat / exhausts are extremely unlikely to give you an extra 30bhp. Tuning NA cars just isn't that cheap anyone that says different is *usually* talking bllx. It's a sad state of affairs, but you still see adverts for "up to" +12bhp for a cone filter and we all know it's an un-substantiated claim but they still make it.

To make the boxter engine not compete with the 911 involves making it 3.2l rather than 3.6l and probably reducing compression ratio, not just an ECU or breathing mods. Having said all that, I'd be very interested to see evidence to the contrary.

Andy

 

Are you stupid?

Porsche have always made a "Junior" car - 912, 914, 924, 944, and they have managed to do this without damaging the brand. Maybe, just maybe they know what they are doing, after all they are the most profitable car manufacturer in the world.

Do you think they could survive as a business on just one model of car?

Just as Subaru have to make "cheap" versions of the Sti, so that "poor people" can buy them, to increase their revenue and help develop future models.

id

 

That's quite a strange quote from a Subaru owner. Maybe 6 years ago you were different, but nowadays?

I remember a mag test (one of the 1st EVO's I think) where they got a bunch of class leading cars, probably when they started off their Performance Percentage rating thing. There was a handling circuit, part dry, part wet. Only thing that beat a P1 overall (ie wet parts and dry) was a Boxster S. It won the handling outright, P1 was 2nd.

WET and dry.

 

Bit narrow minded isn't it? Unless you've compared them back to back.

Amazing how many Subaru owners "wouldn't have" a Porsche, M3, AMG Merc etc

 

Thanks davyboy, just found the RUF 3400S.


Hmmm....

 

image doctor no im not stupid and resent the question my point is that when you look at the lower models of yesteryear their prices still made the brand un-obtainable for the majority........ now however the brand is fairly obtainable for the majority if they so wish

hence the image of the boxster is a "poor mans" 911 because more people can afford it

its blatently obvious porsche know what they r doing by the gr8 cars they make and by their profitablity

no where in my post did i mention about poor people that was your choice of words which again i find disrespectful to those who either cannot A afford a more expensive car or B choose not to

Grow up and look at things laterally not head on

hawk

 

craig h

yes my comment may be narrow minded BUT its my choice if i were to get a porsche id get the 911 not boxster its a free world and thank goodness we all have different views otherswise we'd all drive the same cars in the same colour blah blah blah

ps i have tried them back to back and the 911 is in a different league

 

That the Boxster is the entry level car doesn't make it a bad car, or indeed exclude it from being the best. If you don't like the brand or the fact it's only a 2 seater or some other such detail then fair enough. But to exclude the car on the fact that there is a more expensive car in the range above it sounds like nonsense to me.

This "poor mans 911" business is based I assume on the fact all Boxster owners would buy a 911 if only they could afford to, but no owner of any other car on the planet would drive anything other than their current car given an unlimited budget?

 

Incredible isn't it! And all the drivers of these cars are labled as *******! Until of course they can afford to buy one

id

 

Is that really true? In relative terms I would have thought the Boxster was more exclusive and a hell-of-alot better than the 924 or 944. Going back further, the 914 was very low rent.

I think the Boxster & Boxster S are very nice cars (and a lot of other people do too judging by the sales). Not the sort of car I'd buy given the performance vs money point I'm looking at, but as an overall package it's a solid all round roasdster. An Elise 111R would thrash it round the circuit and general driving, but the Elise is not an "all round" car, it has certain aspects that are too uncompromising for some (but not for me).

This thread seems to throw up two main arguments opposing the Boxster:
- It's good but not what I'm looking for in a car (i.e. want more performance, not bothered about the badge or build Q, etc). This is fine and is why I wouldn't buy one given the choice.
- Inverse badge snobery that ignores the enviable build quality, sublime chassis, etc. I find this quite sad, because they don't seem able to separate the car from the stereo-typical image of those that drive it.

Just my thoughts,

Andy

 

944 Turbo cost 40k in 1990, 14 years later the Boxster S costs the same.

The 944 Turbo was/is more expensive and exclusive

Cars in general have come down in price.

 

Srappydog - glad you are such an authority .....
NA cars respond just fine and some respond very well to gas flow mods - some not so. For example the E46 M3 mentioned earlier is so efficient an engine that it's almost at it's limits for bhp.

I did lots of work with various tuning companies back in the mid 90's on developing / testing bits for VR6 engines (using my 2.8 golf) and the results were all tested before and after and independent of the other mods.

FYI the results were as follows:
Standard 176 bhp, 174lb/ft torque
RamAir Cone filter +8bhp +8lb/ft torque
Remus Exhaust (cat back) +5bhp +5lb
Enlarged Throttle Body and chip +11bhp +13lb
Shrick Cams (on top of everything else) +16bhp +8lb
Shrick Variable inlet manifold +9bhp +32lb

So I ended up with 225bhp and 240lb/ft torque, percentage increases of 27.8% and 38% respectively. Not bad for an engine that can't be tuned, and hadn't had big valves or a gas flowed head yet!!!

 

I think the P1 is a bit more different that the Boxster, based on the fact i see boxsters every day, and another P1... hmmm once every few weeks if that...

Hopefully with the collection of a wr1 in the next month or 2 then I also hope to be slightly different again.... I accept some of the comments but surely you get what you pay for in a brand otherwise how can porsche justify the extra cost for the other cars...?? I have never said it's not a good car just not what I would have... and nothing to do with what I can afford...!! I disagree with putting a car down due to my opinion because everyone has different tastes, if we didn't we'd all drive the same cars...!!!

I find the Boxster and now the M3 too common, and I just like to be different


That's quite a strange quote from a Subaru owner. Maybe 6 years ago you were different, but nowadays?

I remember a mag test (one of the 1st EVO's I think) where they got a bunch of class leading cars, probably when they started off their Performance Percentage rating thing. There was a handling circuit, part dry, part wet. Only thing that beat a P1 overall (ie wet parts and dry) was a Boxster S. It won the handling outright, P1 was 2nd.

WET and dry.

 

You have a special edition P1, the poor mans 22b I think it is

You are comparing a special edition of an Impreza to a standard Boxster - If you are comparing like for like, just how many Boxster Anniversaries do you see?

An WR1 will make you no different, to a Boxster owner for instance, it will be just another Impreza.

 

True! True! But what a an Impreza, It will give the boxters big sister a run for it's £70,000 eh!!!
dave