dij

Ok

all points taken

yes the turbo is as you say.I t must have been fitted to the car before I had it.
Ok agreed,it was a bad decission to go about this in the way I did,the turbo was a mismatch,the ecu should have been remapped,OB +OM should have been used,knock link should have been fitted,and I should have gone to a specialist.
I have learnt my error.
I know what to do in the future.

As for insurance, I am covered.

I will probably be changing it back to standard and selling the sti engine parts

Thanks for the help guys

dij

Mail me if interested

dij

Not sure who you're getting your advice from, but suspect they are the sort of "expert car tuner" I often meet at the local pub

People on here will help you, if you give all the info.

MB[/QUOTE]

Yes if you meet people from RC developements,Graham goode, or APi engines in the pub.

dij

My trade insurance covers all cars including modified cars.

dij

Thanks for your politeness

john banks

dij do you have an email address I can email you on? If you prefer not to post it up just email me johnbanks@dsl.pipex.com

Dark Blue Mark

dij,

Any tuner worth their salt would / should have given the exact advice GM, and others have, in this post. If the tuners you have used advised you correctly, you wouldn't be experiencing the problems you are.

And it is a bodge.

I wish you well with it, as these things are never funny, and always costly.

MB

dij

Fair comment, You guys may see this as a bodge,but all the sccoby drivers who have seen the car where impressed with it.Anyway I dont see any point in trying to justify why I did what I did,the main thing is I have found out the possible causes of failure.
One thing I do whant to clarify is, the 'wrong turbo' question hadnt come up before (was assuming it was factory sti 5 turbo).I only found out about this after GM mentioned it,and today it was comfirmed to me by a few others.

One of techs at GGR also went through what had been done and gave the same answer 'It wasnt mapped on UK fuel,not the right turbo'.Others thought the turbo wouldnt make a difference.As I said before,conflicting opinions of different technicians.

As I have said I have my answers now and I dont think anything more usefull can come from this thread.

greasemonkey

Dij, there's something I don't quite understand here. First of all you said this:
...and then when folk started calling you on it, you responded with:

You see the thing I don't quite understand is this: If you have a trader policy that covers you on anything, why would you initially have said that you knew that failing to disclose was "not the right way"?

Secondly, if you have a trader policy that covers you on all cars, modified or not, you'll be paying a flat rate, so why would it get cheaper if you failed to disclose the modifications on this particular vehicle?

Thirdly, if your policy supposedly covers you on modified cars, what do you have to gain by failing to disclose the modifications? After all, if you do have a prang, and haven't notified the broker of all the extra bits, you would only recover the value of a standard UK car...

Something there just doesn't sit right, and I can't help but think that the trader policy comment is a bit of a fib intended to de-fuse the criticism you were getting.

As for the "other turbo not making a difference", I find it hard to believe that the likes of RC Developments, API Engines and GGR would have told you this if you'd run it by them initially, as you appear to be claiming further up.

Dark Blue Mark

Bit quiet in here

Anyone knows you cant just bolt on a different turbo, and get away with it. Clearly the flows and pressures will change, and the ECU will not be prepared for it. I think my mum would probably know that (no offence to her )

MB

The_Judge

Hey, don't get putting the old dears down! Mine's 66 and watches Bo' Selecta ffs...!

Dark Blue Mark

Does she know the difference between open and closed loop stoichiometric control though?

(mine doesn't - but my car scares her )

MB

The_Judge

Err, no. She won't get in the car with me. In fact, she hasn't since I took her down to Bicester Village in my 220 GSi Turbo as part of a present for her 60th. I thought if the speedo needle was far round enough, she wouldn't be able to see how fast we were going... She ain't daft though. She didn't say anything at the time, but after our day's shopping, we got back in the car to return home and she said "Adrian, please try to keep below 100mph on the way back..." lol

greasemonkey

Your name is Adrian? Christ, it's hardly surprising you call yourself something else on here!

Best,

Horace (aka greasemonkey)

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

I've just read through most of this ! It sounds like a mega ***** up from start to finish without really an idea of what parts are compatible from one engine to another.

The VF34 as far as l am aware is from a STi 7 or 8, the STi5 / 6 and P1 use a VF28 usually. There is very little likelihood of this working correctly with so many mismatched parts, bits from here or there and then mates fiddling about with lots of goodwill but little precise knowledge.

I would be inclined to take the whole mess to a responsible company and get them to put it all right so that you have a known quantity to start from.

I would recommend API.

David APl Engines

greasemonkey

According to some comments further up David, it would seem that you (or your representatives) were among those who advised dij to take this path in the first place!

...and no, I didn't believe this for a second either.

The_Judge

In the words of Oz - "Bollokcs".

sg72

Interesting thread.

2p worth here: I had a vf34 fitted to my STI 5 Type R after blow up (MAF failure with no monitoring).
You bet I drove the car very gently to the Mappers to get this Turbo (Also has FMIC)
Combination set up properly (This took a couple of visits to get it right/safe)
This is all behind me now.
Car is now much further modded on standard internals .
However everything has been set up and monitored specifically to engines requirements.
Never heard of staight bolt on performance parts that don't require something else to be adjusted to suit

Steve

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Greasemonkey, I've no idea who dij is and certainly l or my guys wouldn't advise anything like the mess he seems to have got into here. Some people you can help and others go their own way after taking advice from every person who will listen to them.

This saga above bears all the hallmarks of the latter. Even so I'd be interested in seeing the pot-pourri to see if there is any chance it might run together with any chance of success.

We find that when we supply and fit an engine it runs fine immediately and most times when we supply an engine it does the same. Then occasionally it gets fitted and won't run right, you talk the ' engineer' through a diagnostic test using the on board facility and presto! 3 or 4 codes pop up - usually turbo boost solenoid is amongst them. Talk it through and after a bit of work it runs fine.

Seems to me here that there's never been any diagnostic done in this case and the car is probably running bung full of faults that never allow it a chance.

Tell us who and where you are dij so we can figure you out !!

David API Engines

dij

Hmm
I thought you had given up on this thread.Perhaps you have nothing better to do .

My main concern was to find the problem,which you have helped with and I am very greatful.

Now that is done I can waste my time giving further info which is of no use to anyone.



Before the first sti , I was looking at varios uk cars ,I had found out about insurance and it was cheeper than an import. My first experiance with the sti 4 was bad luck but still good because I got my money back and I had now made my mind up.
Then Only took out a personal insurance policy on my second car.This was the sti 5 that gave a good 11k fast enjoyable miles,also the car that had the vf34 fitted at some point .The flat spot I mentioned earlier was below 3000rpm and it caused jerky driving around town.It also hunted after fast driving.After the pop and the engine change I sold the car ,passing on the valuable lesson I had learnt so far from the limited sources available to me;
dont use anything other than optimax and get rid of the exhaust,leave it standard and it will go on for ever.
By this time my insurance had expired and I was left with my trade policy.

The 99 turbo was bought as a project and the working on it was a
good experience.I never actually privately insured this car.If I had ,and not mentioned then it would be cheaper,'I know,not the right way'.I have not said what you have assumed. 'The insurance issue is the least of my worries at the moment',its not that it isnt a worry,Im more interested with the problem at hand than to try and prove myself.
You might find my story unbelieveable,but if you knew me it would be normal

I admit the extent I have gone to
was a mistake, I realised it before the project finished and its easy to say you shouldnt have done that after its done .

As for the

issue on throwing parts from here thereand every where;
Some of the advice was given to me about cosworth pistons and optimax
curing the problem,by a sn member.
You probably know who I am and if you read this,I am not blaming you .
I am responsible for my own actions,and still highly regard your bussiness.

The idea of making an sti engine using the orignal block was suggested to me by a friend at an engine centre,and the previously mentioned tuners only gave me advice on how to and what to do.The oil pump was suggested to me and hks spark plugs,none of which I intended to fit but did to make sure nothing could go wrong.
None of them knew of the turbo and neither did I so It was assumed that it would be just like a standard car.Because of the previous cars ability to run for so long before it popped,
I had no reason for concern.I was also told by another reputable centre that
optimax alone would be ok because the ecu will adjust to it .Seemed nothing wrong with that.I had previously purchased a Power fc recommended by one of the techs.This now seemed useless as I had deciced to only use OM.

The oil leek on the rocker shouldnt have been there and was sending smoke into the filter,(HKS pan filter,not induction kit)
800 miles into running in and the same flat spot problem started again.Although the engine seemed to be running perfectly(better than my previous cars)the hunting began (after running in ).This is why I suspected the MAF.About this time I began using SN and after searching through forums found that there seems to be acommon opinion that MAFs destroy engines.
I changed back to the standard filter and cleaned the maf with electrical cleaner.I then started using Octane booster(found that here aswell)
The engine did seem to change and the flat spot went away.
I was driving fast when it died .My first thaught was the turbo.Later my mate did a compression test and found spots of ally on the spark plug.


sometims trying to save money can cost you more in the long run,but
as you have said further up in this thread ,if it was mapped propperly then
it probably wouldnt have happened(providing its not all my mates fault in the first place)Its easy to say 'you shouldnt have done this or that'.
As I have said before,I have learnt the hard way,and in future will know what to do/what not to do.

zhastaph

Totally no help whatsoever now i know, but it's the Lambda (O2 sensor) that causes that. My STI 5 was exactly the same. Very lumpy in the lower rev range and very jerky/hesitanty around the 2,500 - 3,000 rev mark. Plus after some spirited driving the rev guage would be leaping up and down at idle.

dij

Thanks for the input
This is just what I mean ask a question on here and someone will give a valuable answer.
I will change that aswell,if and when I get the car running.

THANKS AGAIN

dij

[QUOTE=APIDavid]Greasemonkey, I've no idea who dij is and certainly l or my guys wouldn't advise anything like the mess he seems to have got into here. Some people you can help and others go their own way after taking advice from every person who will listen to them.

This saga above bears all the hallmarks of the latter.


That is correct,your advice was taken as free friendly advice and how I acted on it was up to me.

you may not have met me but you do know me
I spoke to you after you called me back
If you read back in the thread you may remember a question asked to you ,a few days ago about the turbo.Another clue 'My exchange engine would be an sti engine'.
I also asked you about a uk gearbox,td04 turbo,diff and ecu.
ring a bell?
I have already spoken to you about this pot pourri twice on the same day.

dij

Many of you may be offended by my previous statement
that all scoobies are unreliable .
if you have been offended then soeey .
GM you may know it all,but not everyone is a grease monkey.
part of the problem on here is timing,I can only post replies in the evening
others are on the pc during the day.Say one thing that isnt clear and you come back to an offspring of mad replies.

some of you may be on the pc daily and nightly.

Im only on right now coz my cars gone down
peece.

Dark Blue Mark

dij,

To be fair, its good you replied, most would have gone quiet by now.

I'd spend some quality time lurking in the gen tech / drivetrain forums and really gen up. Flog your car and get a UK MY99/00 with a decat etc, in the meantime. They are much harder to blow up As I said earlier in the post, the STi is quite specialised and needs a fair bit of care and knowledge. I know far too many people running them very badly, who completely ignore any advice I give them. They will soon be facing some big bills

MB

john banks

Subarus are not unreliable. Having had a 215 BHP MY00 tuned to 406 BHP on standard internals and surviving, and another Subaru engine in the same car rated for 300 BHP running happily at 434 BHP also on standard internals, the only Subaru part that has broken has been the five speed gearbox which lasted way beyond expectations.

All the other stuff that has blown up or not worked properly has been due to one atrociously incompetent aftermarket supplier that was unable to supply any component of importance that remotely did what it was supposed to.

Subarus using talked up aftermarket parts, mismatched parts, poorly installed or setup parts, or with improper octane and maintenance for their specification blow up left, right and centre.

Pick the right kit and set it up right and the results are impressive and satisfactory from an ownership point of view.

StickyMicky

yeah man, drag it out as long as you can, its all good banter

i used to love searching the archives for EVERYTHING i could think of, i just love soaking up techy info, bit restricted at the moment tho, ive had to resort to searching other sites instead

dij

I know I may be opening another can of worms here,but some of the things you have just said go back to my point of 'these cars are for tech wizards'.
I have messed with cars for sometime now and I know there are alot of
'pub mechanics ' out there, but lots of the talk does start from something usualy valid.When I first started driving everyone was into RS turbos and Cosworths,most of which claimed silly BHP figures, and none of them claimed week engines (probably bull).I have always been into Jap cars and the only car that has had a bad repution for engines is the RX 7(one of the cars ive never owned,but impressed by the way it revs/drives).I have done quite a few mods in the past eg changing a 2.3 prelude into a 2.2 vtech(2.3 heads are also prone to problems),
transplanting the running gear from nissan cherry turbo to a sunny(b11),
changing the hubs/discs calipers from a 200sx(s14) to an s13,along with a 2.0 turbo engine(sr 20det),converted a Honda legend 2.7 auto into a manual
(the auto box is prone to failure)blah blah .....lots more (my mechanic was involved in most of these).All of these have been a success,and the cars have always been forgiving when missused.My experience with cars has taught me to never use after market parts.The way I see it ,if its designed to fit the car in the factory then everything must have been tested.If it needs changing because it wont opperate/keeps braking,then it is a design fault.

Any way to get to the point, the pub talk nowdays is that the Skyline is the ultimate,the Evo is best alrounder and the scoob is sh1te coz of its engine(at least that is in my area).
You can dismiss them as drunken fools ,but do you dismiss the first 2 cars?
I have got rather heated up during some of these discussions(just like some of you did earlier)and reacted by deffending my car .I have not been down the pub since my car has blown ,coz I wouldnt have a leg to stand on(leggless at the end of the night).
Once again you can dismiss my case coz the main man GM thinks im a '****'
but Im sure this wont be the last anyone will hear such comments. Mark and Ozzy have also added to these comments.

Although this may apply only to imports,(uk drivers beware too) so far the answer is 'spend money on a knock link ,spend money on a remap,spend the extra on Optimax,spend your money with specialists ,and keep an eye on the knock link (if you have any spare change,replace the MAF to be on the safe side)and then drive your car normally?.
Sorry?you want more power? Ok get your parts only from a specialist,fitted by a specialist,oh yeh and get it remapped again.
Its very easy,just spend the money now or youll only have to do it later
when you get your engine rebuilt.

Yep very user friendly(not).

0oh no Ive done it again,Interested to find out what sort of defence you will come up with,or what names you guys wanna call me this time.

dij

Yes neither have I.
Im interested to know how the ecu was remapped.Was under the impression that it cant be done to a factory ecu.How much did it cost and where from?
THANKS

john banks

Agree the Evo is the best all rounder, but parts are cheaper and more available for Subarus. Skyline is a little heavy IMHO. A 450 BHP Skyline does not go like a 450 BHP Scooby.

Bad tuning will blow up any engine. Subarus engines being alloy often with cast pistons do not take extreme tuning as well as Evo and Skyline engines.

I'm not a technical wizard. I have no technical qualifications of relevance and my occupation is totally unrelated. I have just learned on the car. I have just treaded cautiously with commonsense.

To lose 3 engines it does sound like a series of failures have occurred.

You've lost Cossie pistons as quickly as Subaru ones I gather.

Engine integrity is not the issue. Setup and tuning are. Plus in the case of Subarus not driving them continually at very high speeds.