Making money outside of work :-)
11 February 2004, 08:24 PM
#121
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OK, so is there anything I can do at home in my spare time that will bring me extra income????
Emails welcome at pd@west-mill.freeserve.co.uk
Emails welcome at pd@west-mill.freeserve.co.uk
11 February 2004, 11:00 PM
#124
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And what will you do with the answers when you get them......you wanna buy some? Anyway as I actually have a life away from my keyboard its taken me a while.....here you go!
The clinical trial question was answered in the articles I posted up previously......, so why is it not sold in shops?
Firstly - control, because selling a product globally is expensive and to a certain extent looses control of your product - organic funding is just not an option which leaves you with funding issues, shareholder pressure etc.
Secondly - putting funding where it matters, direct marketing is a cheap route to market for a business trying to start up it is cost efficient so the business can concentrate on efficient distribution and product quality rather than a new credo! As long as the compensation plan and the organisation is ethical its a great way to get going.
Thirdly - communication, your suspicion about these products is a case in point - people need to see the results for themselves or at least have it explained to them, this is most effectively done through one to one. For example, I had exactly the same opinion as you a while ago (believe it or not) but my aunt who had fairly severe arthritis recovered using these products so I thought I would take a look. When I scratched beneath the surface and took the products I felt the benefits too and understood what an opportunity they were!
Fourthly product commitment, These products are not aspirin - you don't take it when you feel bad and get an instant hit. As you will now know from the literature you've read, optimal health is only achieved by providing the right nutrition day in day out - without it things go wrong eventually. So basically it requires a different approach to browsing the shops looking for something to give you relief from a specific ailment - a different business model.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how its sold there is nothing shady about the products and of course like anything if people want them they can buy them. If they do and they don't work for them they won't.....the products do what they say they do, I know this from personal experience!
The clinical trial question was answered in the articles I posted up previously......, so why is it not sold in shops?
Firstly - control, because selling a product globally is expensive and to a certain extent looses control of your product - organic funding is just not an option which leaves you with funding issues, shareholder pressure etc.
Secondly - putting funding where it matters, direct marketing is a cheap route to market for a business trying to start up it is cost efficient so the business can concentrate on efficient distribution and product quality rather than a new credo! As long as the compensation plan and the organisation is ethical its a great way to get going.
Thirdly - communication, your suspicion about these products is a case in point - people need to see the results for themselves or at least have it explained to them, this is most effectively done through one to one. For example, I had exactly the same opinion as you a while ago (believe it or not) but my aunt who had fairly severe arthritis recovered using these products so I thought I would take a look. When I scratched beneath the surface and took the products I felt the benefits too and understood what an opportunity they were!
Fourthly product commitment, These products are not aspirin - you don't take it when you feel bad and get an instant hit. As you will now know from the literature you've read, optimal health is only achieved by providing the right nutrition day in day out - without it things go wrong eventually. So basically it requires a different approach to browsing the shops looking for something to give you relief from a specific ailment - a different business model.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how its sold there is nothing shady about the products and of course like anything if people want them they can buy them. If they do and they don't work for them they won't.....the products do what they say they do, I know this from personal experience!
12 February 2004, 04:25 PM
#125
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Irrespective of what the products are, it sounds like it's essentially an Amway-type business model. It is a sort of pyramid scheme, but not exactly the same as the pyramid schemes which have been outlawed (real products, no money upfront etc). So it is legal, but a sort of pyramid scheme none the less. Success comes from recruiting people to your network, each of whom have to recruit further people, who in turn have to recruit further people, who recruit further people etc. The commission on any sale is then split between the person who actually gets the sales and the person or people above them in their "chain". The person who makes the sale gets some commission, others higher in the chain get smaller commissions for each sale, but there are many more sales in their chain so ultimately they earn more. If you are 6/8/10 levels down in the heirarchy, how many people would you have to recruit to your chain to earn the same amount of money ? Are there enough people in the country to do this ?
So long as everyone believes in the scheme, so long as they believe in the dream, the chains grow and branch and those high up the chains do indeed make money. However there is a very real limit over how far such a scheme can grow, I would say it's completely false to say there is unlimited potential. If you get in early, maybe it can work for you. But how many tens/hundreds/thousands of people below might end up putting in lots of time and effort only to never receive the sort of money they thought was possible ?
In my personal opinion such schemes are insidious. They prey on peoples aspirations and people are made to feel like failures if they quit the scheme. People stay in the schemes longer than they should because to quit means your a quitter. It may be phrased differently, "you were never cut out for it", "you just didn't want it badly enough", "you didn't have the skills", "you didn't follow the sales method". People are given coaching and support from those "successful" people higher in the chain because belief in the whole ediface needs to be maintained. If someone quits, it's probably a good thing as they were holding everyone else back or giving off negative vibes. Ultimately though the business model means only a select few will ever make serious money. If you were told at the start that only a very small percentage of people ever make good money, would you bother ? Everyone is told they can make good money, but the chances are vanishingly small.
And is money really worth abusing relationships ? People end up selling to friends and family (who feel obliged to buy) just to maintain momentum and sales targets. I have seen it happen.
Reality check, just ask yourself how many bottles of health supplement have to be sold so you could earn a significant income after costs such as product costs, petrol, telephone, marketing costs have been taken out ?
All IMHO.
So long as everyone believes in the scheme, so long as they believe in the dream, the chains grow and branch and those high up the chains do indeed make money. However there is a very real limit over how far such a scheme can grow, I would say it's completely false to say there is unlimited potential. If you get in early, maybe it can work for you. But how many tens/hundreds/thousands of people below might end up putting in lots of time and effort only to never receive the sort of money they thought was possible ?
In my personal opinion such schemes are insidious. They prey on peoples aspirations and people are made to feel like failures if they quit the scheme. People stay in the schemes longer than they should because to quit means your a quitter. It may be phrased differently, "you were never cut out for it", "you just didn't want it badly enough", "you didn't have the skills", "you didn't follow the sales method". People are given coaching and support from those "successful" people higher in the chain because belief in the whole ediface needs to be maintained. If someone quits, it's probably a good thing as they were holding everyone else back or giving off negative vibes. Ultimately though the business model means only a select few will ever make serious money. If you were told at the start that only a very small percentage of people ever make good money, would you bother ? Everyone is told they can make good money, but the chances are vanishingly small.
And is money really worth abusing relationships ? People end up selling to friends and family (who feel obliged to buy) just to maintain momentum and sales targets. I have seen it happen.
Reality check, just ask yourself how many bottles of health supplement have to be sold so you could earn a significant income after costs such as product costs, petrol, telephone, marketing costs have been taken out ?
All IMHO.
12 February 2004, 04:33 PM
#126
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...also while I think of it, it is noticable that those who join such schemes are usually very nice, well educated, hard working people who just desire to have more income. The fact that such intelligent and professional people "believe" in the system also means other people buy into the dream because it "must work". It's a classic case of the emporer's clothes I'm afraid....
12 February 2004, 06:01 PM
#127
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Why don't you look into affiliate marketing? All the big guns (B&Q, Boots, Screwfix etc) pay commision for every product that is sold to customer that you have sent to them.
There are 100's of companies that have affiliate schemes in place such as www.specialbears.co.uk This is one of mine and a few affiliates have made over £100 each on the run up to Valentines Day by sending me traffic. I pay £2 per sale.
There are pro's out there who just sit at home and make commision for doing **** all!
There are 100's of companies that have affiliate schemes in place such as www.specialbears.co.uk This is one of mine and a few affiliates have made over £100 each on the run up to Valentines Day by sending me traffic. I pay £2 per sale.
There are pro's out there who just sit at home and make commision for doing **** all!
13 February 2004, 09:38 AM
#128
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Thanks to everyone who has asked for more details. I will prepare a full FAQs type list to answer every type of question in detail and email to everyone who wants it.
Just to cover on here a few of the previous valid questions:
Imlach asked if the goods can be bought on the High Street. Yes, of course they can, there is nothing in the Kleeneze catalogue that you probably couldn't get from Woolies or B&Q. Yesterday, I made a delivery to a woman of 4 items but she told me that she had found one of the items the day before in B&Q and bought it there instead. No problem, I simply deducted that item from her bill and will send it back, everyone happy.
Why doesn't the company sell their goods on the High Street instead? The company choose not to because they find that network selling is more efficient and is one of the fastest growing areas of retailing. Kleeneze turnover £100m last year so they're not doing too bad.
Cost of goods due to commissions. Another very good question. Consider the Network company compared to say Woolies. They both get their products manufacturered overseas and imported into the UK to a central warehouse. For Woolies they need to distribute these goods to regional centres and then on to all the local branches and finally onto the shelf in your High Street store. They have enormous costs along the way including the costs of maintaining hundreds of shops and numerous staff all the way through the chain to Sharon and Tracy at the checkouts. They also tend to spend large amounts on advertising and excess packaging to protect the goods throughout its transfers.
By comparison the network marketing company just pays for the goods to be sent to each distributor, full stop! They also tend to use much simpler packaging. With Kleeneze the goods are packed in basic "Tesco Value" style packaging to reduce waste and cost. This cost saving can be passed on to the customer and used to pay the commission to the distributor who bears the cost of the onward distribution to the final customer.
Brit in Japan is still getting confused with pyramid selling. He is presenting misunderstanding and misinformation as if it were fact when he is wrong and has misunderstood the major differences between pyramid selling (which is totally illegal) and network marketing. As he rightly points out, a pyramid type structure would never work as you would need to recuit millions to keep it going. A reputable network marketing scheme is nothing like a pyramid scheme.
Consider an anology of a car cleaning business. If I set up a business cleaning cars, at best I might be able to do 10 cars a day. If I want to expand my business I need to take on extra staff to handle the extra work. I can recruit lots of junior staff to do the cleaning but I will also eventually need other managers to help to run the business. Eventually, I could have a large company with bases in every town and lots of people running satelite branches all over the place. That is how I see my network marketing business, it is retailing quality goods by building a network of distributors as I can't be everywhere at once. There is therefore no need to continually recruit people anymore than any business will have staff turnover and need to bring in more people to replace and expand.
The type of goods sold through network marketing need to be durables for it to be successful. By this I mean it needs to be goods that can be re-ordered on a regular basis whether that be cleaning products or health foods etc but not "one-off" items like double glazing. The idea is to build a customer base that will buy the products on a regular cycle
The other question concerned binning catalogues. Of course you are legally allowed to bin a catalogue put through your door, but what is the point? All you have to do is leave it outside and put a note if you really don't want one ever again. Try looking inside one and you might be pleasantly surprised as some even do car cleaning stuff that might interest you. What have you got to loose apart from a few minutes of your time. Its no difference to wondering into a shop just to browse.
No distributor should ever argue with a person who has binned a catalogue. As in all businesses customer care is paramount. "The customer is always right" even when the customer is a complete moron with the IQ and social skills of a slug.
Is there any question that I have not answered fully and completely?
Just to cover on here a few of the previous valid questions:
Imlach asked if the goods can be bought on the High Street. Yes, of course they can, there is nothing in the Kleeneze catalogue that you probably couldn't get from Woolies or B&Q. Yesterday, I made a delivery to a woman of 4 items but she told me that she had found one of the items the day before in B&Q and bought it there instead. No problem, I simply deducted that item from her bill and will send it back, everyone happy.
Why doesn't the company sell their goods on the High Street instead? The company choose not to because they find that network selling is more efficient and is one of the fastest growing areas of retailing. Kleeneze turnover £100m last year so they're not doing too bad.
Cost of goods due to commissions. Another very good question. Consider the Network company compared to say Woolies. They both get their products manufacturered overseas and imported into the UK to a central warehouse. For Woolies they need to distribute these goods to regional centres and then on to all the local branches and finally onto the shelf in your High Street store. They have enormous costs along the way including the costs of maintaining hundreds of shops and numerous staff all the way through the chain to Sharon and Tracy at the checkouts. They also tend to spend large amounts on advertising and excess packaging to protect the goods throughout its transfers.
By comparison the network marketing company just pays for the goods to be sent to each distributor, full stop! They also tend to use much simpler packaging. With Kleeneze the goods are packed in basic "Tesco Value" style packaging to reduce waste and cost. This cost saving can be passed on to the customer and used to pay the commission to the distributor who bears the cost of the onward distribution to the final customer.
Brit in Japan is still getting confused with pyramid selling. He is presenting misunderstanding and misinformation as if it were fact when he is wrong and has misunderstood the major differences between pyramid selling (which is totally illegal) and network marketing. As he rightly points out, a pyramid type structure would never work as you would need to recuit millions to keep it going. A reputable network marketing scheme is nothing like a pyramid scheme.
Consider an anology of a car cleaning business. If I set up a business cleaning cars, at best I might be able to do 10 cars a day. If I want to expand my business I need to take on extra staff to handle the extra work. I can recruit lots of junior staff to do the cleaning but I will also eventually need other managers to help to run the business. Eventually, I could have a large company with bases in every town and lots of people running satelite branches all over the place. That is how I see my network marketing business, it is retailing quality goods by building a network of distributors as I can't be everywhere at once. There is therefore no need to continually recruit people anymore than any business will have staff turnover and need to bring in more people to replace and expand.
The type of goods sold through network marketing need to be durables for it to be successful. By this I mean it needs to be goods that can be re-ordered on a regular basis whether that be cleaning products or health foods etc but not "one-off" items like double glazing. The idea is to build a customer base that will buy the products on a regular cycle
The other question concerned binning catalogues. Of course you are legally allowed to bin a catalogue put through your door, but what is the point? All you have to do is leave it outside and put a note if you really don't want one ever again. Try looking inside one and you might be pleasantly surprised as some even do car cleaning stuff that might interest you. What have you got to loose apart from a few minutes of your time. Its no difference to wondering into a shop just to browse.
No distributor should ever argue with a person who has binned a catalogue. As in all businesses customer care is paramount. "The customer is always right" even when the customer is a complete moron with the IQ and social skills of a slug.
Is there any question that I have not answered fully and completely?
Last edited by Crapaud62; 13 February 2004 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Minor error in middle
13 February 2004, 09:42 AM
#129
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Crapaud - i agree with you about the catalogues - i didn't throw it away out of spite, i just didn't realise that someone would be coming back to collect it. you have piqued my interest in this outfit, so next time i get left a catalogue i will have a look inside, even if only for a laugh.
13 February 2004, 12:40 PM
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Yes, there are lots of questions you have chosen not to answer fully and completely. You have also (chosen to?) misunderstand what I said. I said it was legal, I said it doesn't conform to the definition of pyramid selling that is now illegal. I can understand why you would want to dissociate from the word "pyramid", it has bad history. Call it network marketing if you like, but if you draw out a structure of the organisation it will essentially look like a pyramid.
What percentage of your commissions come from your direct sales and what comes from those in your network (i.e. those beneath you in the chain) ? And those who make big money, what percentage commission do they make from direct sales compared to their network ? Do the big earners spend all day delivering boxes of 4 item to customers? They do this in their spare time ? Is that really effective way to make a fortune? I hardly think so. Big money comes from a percentage commission of those recruited to your network.
So profits are directly related to sales volume. Those at the bottom of the chain earn something, but nowhere near what those at the top earn, and nowhere near what they thought they could earn. Sales cannot grow indefinitely because there is only a finite market for any goods. Yes there is repeat business, but the business as a whole only grows by recruiting new people.
You sell a dream, but the reality is that the vast majority never realise their dream, despite lots of hard work and good intentions.
What percentage of your commissions come from your direct sales and what comes from those in your network (i.e. those beneath you in the chain) ? And those who make big money, what percentage commission do they make from direct sales compared to their network ? Do the big earners spend all day delivering boxes of 4 item to customers? They do this in their spare time ? Is that really effective way to make a fortune? I hardly think so. Big money comes from a percentage commission of those recruited to your network.
So profits are directly related to sales volume. Those at the bottom of the chain earn something, but nowhere near what those at the top earn, and nowhere near what they thought they could earn. Sales cannot grow indefinitely because there is only a finite market for any goods. Yes there is repeat business, but the business as a whole only grows by recruiting new people.
You sell a dream, but the reality is that the vast majority never realise their dream, despite lots of hard work and good intentions.
13 February 2004, 01:22 PM
#134
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oh please, this is getting really boring now. Why can't people just accept that others may decide to make money in a way that is a littel out of the ordinary. How is selling things door-to-door any different from selling houses or cheese?
Get over it all over you and stop bickering about something that is of very little interest to the majority on here. I'm sure many would like to hear about ways to make extra cash (myself included) but they don't have to listen to other people's opinions many many times over.
Get over it all over you and stop bickering about something that is of very little interest to the majority on here. I'm sure many would like to hear about ways to make extra cash (myself included) but they don't have to listen to other people's opinions many many times over.
13 February 2004, 01:46 PM
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Totally agree Goochie, this is getting very boring and this is definately my last post on the subject.
I have answered every question fully and completely and explained all the various misunderstandings that people have. I honestly can't understand some of the points Brit in Japn is making. What difference does the commission structure have on how the income is earnt. The income only comes from the sale of products and nothing, nil, zero on recruitment. If Brit in Japan chooses to not believe that then that is his problem.
Going back to my analogy of a car cleaning business, if I had a very successful business with dozens of branches in several towns would I still be expected to wash the cars myself or would I just pay the staff to do it? Look at every company in the land and the people at the top will earn more than those at the bottom, its life. I fail to see what the difference is.
Brit in Japan is hung up on pyramid selling schemes and nothing will pursuade him otherwise so I agree that this thread has come to its natural end.
I have answered every question fully and completely and explained all the various misunderstandings that people have. I honestly can't understand some of the points Brit in Japn is making. What difference does the commission structure have on how the income is earnt. The income only comes from the sale of products and nothing, nil, zero on recruitment. If Brit in Japan chooses to not believe that then that is his problem.
Going back to my analogy of a car cleaning business, if I had a very successful business with dozens of branches in several towns would I still be expected to wash the cars myself or would I just pay the staff to do it? Look at every company in the land and the people at the top will earn more than those at the bottom, its life. I fail to see what the difference is.
Brit in Japan is hung up on pyramid selling schemes and nothing will pursuade him otherwise so I agree that this thread has come to its natural end.
13 February 2004, 02:31 PM
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Fine, this shall be my last post on the subject too. Anyone who goes into these schemes should do so with realistic expectations and not get carried away by the hype. Crapaud chooses not to respond to some points raised, make your own judgement about that. The End.
13 February 2004, 02:39 PM
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Brit_in_Japan - agree with what you are saying.
As long as those of you who choose to try these schemes go in with your eyes open and are aware of the potential for failure as well as sucess, then good luck to you and you can buy all of scoobynet a pint when you make your first million
As long as those of you who choose to try these schemes go in with your eyes open and are aware of the potential for failure as well as sucess, then good luck to you and you can buy all of scoobynet a pint when you make your first million
04 January 2006, 12:44 PM
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So how are they doing nearly two years on?
Back to the top resurrection
How is everyone doing nearly two years on with their network marketing?
http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/Mannatech.htm
A family member has started selling ACN telecoms. Price seems to be about 5% cheaper than BT, but like the Mannatech example above seems to fail the five tests on this helpful site.
With other family members previously having tried various MLM organisations with no success whatsoever apart from the ones that were heavily product based with immediate reasonable returns from your sales rather than massive kickbacks to uplines, I remain very cynical.
At points of being very fed up with training and career choice, I nearly ended up selling mortgages and in Amway
I could have wasted so much time and thrown what turned out to be a good career away...
I was an eternal optimist, now I think I am a realistic cynic
How is everyone doing nearly two years on with their network marketing?
http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/Mannatech.htm
A family member has started selling ACN telecoms. Price seems to be about 5% cheaper than BT, but like the Mannatech example above seems to fail the five tests on this helpful site.
With other family members previously having tried various MLM organisations with no success whatsoever apart from the ones that were heavily product based with immediate reasonable returns from your sales rather than massive kickbacks to uplines, I remain very cynical.
At points of being very fed up with training and career choice, I nearly ended up selling mortgages and in Amway
I could have wasted so much time and thrown what turned out to be a good career away...
I was an eternal optimist, now I think I am a realistic cynic
04 January 2006, 11:55 PM
#142
Great thread
Having looked at a great deal of these MLM type businesses I am very sceptical as they are always very sketchy. In the end I decided against this and started a business doing something I've always been interested in - namely telecommunications.
I'm lucky in that it's paid me a very very good wage, allowed me to support myself since the age of 19 (I'm now 25), including thru uni with tuition fees etc and let me get my first Scooby when I was 21
I am looking at opening up my telecom's business and offering a worthwhile home-based business to other people. It involves providing services for consumers and businesses typically and can generate significant amounts of revenue. No bullsh1t involved or even any technical knowledge. The beauty of this game is that you can target anybody, your market is what you make it.
There are 2 options, one is you use the services yourself and generate revenue or just provide these to others and take your commissions. There's no messy MLM - we provide the core building blocks which you can use to address customer requirements in different ways.
If anybody is interested then feel free to drop me a line on jai@air-tel.co.uk.
I've dabbled in Spreadbetting, binary-bets and things such as www.betonmarkets.com and although I've made a fast buck sometimes it always gets lost in half the time
Good luck guys!!
Jai
Having looked at a great deal of these MLM type businesses I am very sceptical as they are always very sketchy. In the end I decided against this and started a business doing something I've always been interested in - namely telecommunications.
I'm lucky in that it's paid me a very very good wage, allowed me to support myself since the age of 19 (I'm now 25), including thru uni with tuition fees etc and let me get my first Scooby when I was 21
I am looking at opening up my telecom's business and offering a worthwhile home-based business to other people. It involves providing services for consumers and businesses typically and can generate significant amounts of revenue. No bullsh1t involved or even any technical knowledge. The beauty of this game is that you can target anybody, your market is what you make it.
There are 2 options, one is you use the services yourself and generate revenue or just provide these to others and take your commissions. There's no messy MLM - we provide the core building blocks which you can use to address customer requirements in different ways.
If anybody is interested then feel free to drop me a line on jai@air-tel.co.uk.
I've dabbled in Spreadbetting, binary-bets and things such as www.betonmarkets.com and although I've made a fast buck sometimes it always gets lost in half the time
Good luck guys!!
Jai
05 January 2006, 09:39 AM
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I'm still playing poker profitably 2 years on If it wasn't for poker I wouldn't have the S2000 that is for sure. I've now mastered playing 4+ tables profitably at the same time and I expect to see more rapid progress over the next few years.
If it wasn't for poker I wouldn't have the S2000 that is for sure. I've now mastered playing 4+ tables profitably at the same time and I expect to see more rapid progress over the next few years.
05 January 2006, 01:19 PM
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THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY
THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY
THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY
There, thats 3 times so maybe it will sink in ! The reason most people end up stuck in a particular job is because few people actually have what it takes to run their own successful business. For every person who makes a living from their own business, there are the other 9 who tried it, failed, and lost a load of money. Not saying there is anything wrong with the people who fail, its just one of those things - everyone has different skills and some people are more suited to being employees than business owners.
Remember also, that all these 'on the side' businessess people do are liable to 40% income tax on your profit - you may be just planning to make a few quid to bolster the income from your job, but it is very easy to get caught out by the Inland Revenue, and IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE to evade tax ! It only takes on jealous 'mate' or neighbour who finds out what you are doing to grass you up.
THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY
THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY
There, thats 3 times so maybe it will sink in ! The reason most people end up stuck in a particular job is because few people actually have what it takes to run their own successful business. For every person who makes a living from their own business, there are the other 9 who tried it, failed, and lost a load of money. Not saying there is anything wrong with the people who fail, its just one of those things - everyone has different skills and some people are more suited to being employees than business owners.
Remember also, that all these 'on the side' businessess people do are liable to 40% income tax on your profit - you may be just planning to make a few quid to bolster the income from your job, but it is very easy to get caught out by the Inland Revenue, and IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE to evade tax ! It only takes on jealous 'mate' or neighbour who finds out what you are doing to grass you up.
05 January 2006, 03:18 PM
#146
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Remember also, that all these 'on the side' businessess people do are liable to 40% income tax on your profit - you may be just planning to make a few quid to bolster the income from your job, but it is very easy to get caught out by the Inland Revenue, and IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE to evade tax ! It only takes on jealous 'mate' or neighbour who finds out what you are doing to grass you up.
No tax on poker
