harvey

iTrader: (48)

Just to update, I have sent my bank transfer to John but there is one thing that might be worth clarifying.
There are two types of monitor, one to monitor knock only and the other "Dual Monitor" which also incorporates a very attractive AFR display. This is particularly of interest to me as I only have limited space for guages so a 2 in 1 which is only a little bit more expensive is a good option.
See the J&S site for pictures of both monitors and tech info.
Thanks for organising the group buy David.

Delboy2

BTTT

John at J&S

So far, we have received payment received from:
Charly N, Harvey S, and Tom P.

Pending:
Chris W and Robert C.

Group buy ends on Feb. 16th.

Tom, it looks like you should get your unit in a day or so.

Gauges should be ready in a week or so.

nom

Thanks John - I can see it bouncing around in the UK as UPS send it off all over the place . It got to the UK on the 8th, and after 4 days it's struggled down to vaguely my area in the UK
I'll make a note when it gets here!

nom

One well travelled box has just turned up
So now the fun starts along with the exploding gearbox

John at J&S

Group buy period is closed.

As of this date, we have received funds from Harvey Smith, Charly Nikodem, Tom Pearce, and no others.

To receive discount pricing, we must receive an email from you on or before Feb.18, indicating the following:

Product choice
Payment method
Preferred shipping method
Complete shipping address
Phone number

We will use this information to calculate your invoice total.

Payment must be in process by Feb. 20.

John Pizzuto
J&S Electronics

Delboy2

**** it....forgot about this

beryllium

15 guys confirmed and only 3 ordering.
not very sfamous

beryllium

15 guys confirmed and only 3 ordering.
not very good score

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Twelve `no shows` on a fifteen group buy. Just what is going on ?
Bit like a rudderless ship and nobody has had the courtesy to liaise with John and Shirley.
**** poor show.

MaeckyMY98

Hello!

I have send 2 emails to John with all he asked and didnt get reply so i didnt know whats going on!

minty

iTrader: (1)

I asked a few questions on an e-mail and re-sent it and too have not had a response. I am unsure about the details of paying by cheque to the USA.

Anyone done this before ???

PS> David i'll mail you about this buy too.

Thanks Minty.

Dont take the mic

I think i understand what this thing does but haven't heard of anyone using them and with this group buy on the go, it may be a good thing to have.

Is there anyone who uses this things and can recommend it? Any results with it?

john banks

I've used one. It retards ignition on individual cylinders that are detting. So you can run tune for best case timing rather than worst case as the unit will sort out a few degrees too much timing. Beyond that it really needs to be able to learn because if you go piling in too much timing the knock happens and gets severe before it can be curtailed. This isn't because the unit isn't quick enough, just that to start retarding it has to hear the start of knock. If you are running far too much timing it will be too quick for anything to stop it. So like most tuning aids it is an adjunct rather than the be all and end all.

Dont take the mic

So you recommend this as worthwhile things to go for John? Thanks for replying quickly to my questions.

john banks

Depends on your car, its usage, modifications etc.

Dont take the mic

Thx John.
Sorry for all questions but i never come across this type of J&S thing before.
Normally you see this things being talked about and then a group buy started to allow other peoples to get tuning bits at good prices but i can find no info anywhere here on people using it and giving feedback of pros and cons.

Has this group buy been started because of feedback from other happy users? Pleas let me see link to who else has used this if possible so i can see if i could benefit from one.

nom

I think, at this point, John is the only one from over here who has actually used it. There's more coverage on NASIOC?
I've now got this bit of kit but haven't had the chance to fit it yet. If what is bandied about the place is true & it works 'as advertised', it should be a very good value of improving perfomance at the same time as improving safety (eg if you are running a mildly aggressive map, it will retard only the necessary cylinders rather than all, hence keeping the advance as close to 'the edge' as it can be, but also protecting the engine from det).
However, as John points out, if you pile in the advance & hope the unit will take care of everything, it won't . But I don't think that's what it's designed for either; that's what we have sti ECUs for

nom

Oh - and I agree with Harvey - this is a bloody pathetic response to a group buy, and more of this sort of stuff will lead to no supplier dealing with group buys in the future.
Which is no good for anyone.

Dont take the mic

I'm confused then, sorry, i'm not clever enough for knowing all technical details in electronics but i try to learn. I'll have a look at nasioc site, thanks nom.
Normally group buys come about because there are many peoples giving feedback on how good pieces are then someone organises a group buy to give others a chance to get the same bits at a good price,but it would seem what you are saying is this come about because of one users recommendations? Is this John?

I got e-mail from a friend saying someone had sold there safeguard but didn't know who because it wasn't as good as he hoped it would be and this safeguard would do what an ecu would do anyways.

My thoughts on it is if it has to detect detonation before acting, does an ecu not do that?

I maybe picked up wrong, but very strange for group buy on something which many peoples haven't used. How did this come about?

Let me see what nasioc say about it. Thank you all for helping me.

Dont take the mic

Can you recommend what sort of spec of car this would be advantage in ? Thx for helping me.
I would be using it for road only, no track use or dragging

john banks

Read up on detonation, its causes and effects, and methods of detecting and controlling it. Read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell for example.

I can't distill a proper answer to this into a BBS reply.

Dont take the mic

Thanks John. I have ordered this book from Amazon.
It appears to me this safeguard may benefit those that tune there cars to the limits and you appear to test your car to extremes since it is one of most powerful cars i read about in here.
Is it you that sold your safeguard John?
If you did, why was it no use? Is it because its no better than ecu at end of the day?

john banks

After earlier threads about the Safeguard I thought I would try one, especially as I had a built engine that had such terrible piston slap that it made the knocklink useless. In the end I ended up with a quiet engine on which I could use the knocklink again.

The Safeguard is useful, but I am selling it as I want to develop knock control into another project I am working on (not anything that will ever be commercial though).

The only downsides to the J&S are that it is not laptop programmable and doesn't learn.

The upsides are that it is simple to setup, and effective at controlling a few degrees too much ignition timing "on the fly" or "live".

Adequate knock control or fully programmable knock control is an underdeveloped facility on a lot of ECUs.

Dont take the mic

Thx John
I think this is all making sense to me now.
It is a stand alone unit so can drop timing if needed when the car is running but because it is stand alone part, every time you switch car off and start again, you start at the beginnings? because it is not part of ecu, it can't memorise the changes?

Seems a waste of time to me in having one then. If person mapping car has done his job correctly, you shouldn't really need one of these things.

Who maps your car John?

john banks

I map it.

Without active ignition control you will have to map for the worst case ignition timing to allow for climatic conditions and driving style, with a margin for bad fuel or mechanical wear & tear or failure.

It cannot memorise changes because it is not designed to. A unit could be built that could memorise changes.

Dont take the mic

Is the j&s really necessary then? I'm thinking for myself in that i dont use car on track, only on road, so why go to extremes of timings?
Why not map car within a couple of degrees timing so that you do not have worry about detonation in every day use? unless you are chasing maximum power for the sake of having maximum power.
I think it is a bit stupid to go to these level if you want a car for every day use since you will always be worrying about noise from the engine unless it is to brag about what horsepower your car has to your friends or tuning enemies and trying to be the number one.

I thinks people like that have lackings in other departments if they are so bothered about all the finest details to get the last drop out of there cars unless they have racings or commercial interests. Do you not think?

john banks

When you modify a car heavily the ECU knock control tends to stop working. This can mean quite a detune. With some initial testing on the Safeguard it appeared to allow about 7% extra power on the same octane IIRC, although the tests were limited because of gearbox failure.

Dont take the mic

How does knock control stop working? Detonation is detonation, is it not? if engine is changed or not

john banks

The ECU stops responding to it. I could det my engine to death and see little relevant knock control from my ECU. It is common when an engine is heavily modified. The 2.5 litre is not a lot to do with it - it did it on 2.0 as well.