akshay67

To be honest, I found a bigger difference between speakers of similar value than between CD players of similar value. In fact, it was a much bigger difference.

Has to be a balance though - no point spending 30 on a CD player and 970 on speakers. A 200 cd player and 800 would be a better bet.

Also, don't play into the label thing. I remember a few years ago when I bought my system there was a lot of rage about the Marantz KI sig CD players - compared it to a cheaper Cambridge Audio CD player, which sounded much better.

shug

My speakers are placed on plynths constructed of 3/4 inch granite filled with concrete. 27 x 19 x 3 inches.
They weight rather a lot & leave a nice mark on the carpet.
They cost £150 a pair 6 years ago.
They make a substantial difference to the bass of my mission 752 Freedoms. Especially if you have a wooden floor.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Surely some concrete slaps from B&Q would have done the Job

Jye

--To be honest, I found a bigger difference between speakers of similar value than between CD players of similar value. In fact, it was a much bigger difference--

You will do, due to colouration etc. Speakers have a huge influence on the sound, but as I said, shi* in Shi* out no matter what.

It stands to reason if you fire a £50 CD player out through £1000 speakers that a £1000 CD player should sound better than the above played through £50 speakers. If the sound is inherently crap to begin with the speakers won’t help you out much.

Either that or I'm missing something. Anyway Im off to listen to some sounds


[Edited by Jye - 12/29/2003 11:17:57 PM]

shug

Ali-B
Yeah maybe, but my sparkly black granite slabs look a bit better than concrete slabs, On the downside you don't want to point a Geiger counter at them !

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

It's given me an idea.....

But I don't think the old lady would appreciate me having 2 concrete slabs in the living room

ProperCharlie

Jye - i agree that you need a good source, but in my experience cheap (ish) speakers driven by a god amp will sound better than expensive speakers driven by a cheap(ish) amp. most people don't know what their speakers are capable of because they don't have an amp that can drice them to their full potential. my amp cost a couple of grand, my speakers £800. at least i know i am getting the best out of them. out of interest, Jye, what have you got? tis is my set up:

Linn Axis/Akito/Dynavector 10x4 mkII (knackered, i think)
Trichord Dino + phono stage
Meridian 588 CDP
Meridian 501 Pre
Meridian 557 Power
Cyrus CL70s on dedicated stands filled with sand
van den Hull cables

the current product of 15 years obsession with hifi





[Edited by ProperCharlie - 12/30/2003 12:25:24 AM]

Jye

Hi Charlie very tasty set up m8. This is still what I was trying to say though, the amp is right up there on the food chain before the speakers also as is the source. At least I think you are agreeing with me here

FYI I have atm

Tag Mclaren CDT20R T2L transport

Tag DAC20 with Chord Prodac Pro-Digital Interconnect

Mission 752’s (old now but haven’t heard much better and I've home reviewed quite a few lately, my m8 owned a hi-fi shop here in Ayrshire but has just sold it on to his partner) with Chord Odyssey 4 Silver Plated Copper cable

Cyrus 7 with SmartPower (used in bi amp mode, the 7 is powering the high end and the Smartpower the low end, I've tried both ways and this seems best to my ears)

and 2 PSX-R’s for the amps. The Interconnects I use from the DAC to the amps is Chord Chorus.

For playing mp3's I’m using the SliMP3 player as sold in the Scooby shop, a great bit of kit which sounds pretty damn good through my setup. If you want to see an AVI of it working I can email you my webbie addy offline (don’t want some others to see it, i.e N***O as it gives my full name etc).

I also have a Stands Unique Ultimate AV stand, the big one which can also be seen on my webbie although the site is mainly about building my PC as my brother in the states couldn’t understand what a water cooled PC was all about.

In the loft I have a couple of decks, an Axis and an Ariston RD40/Rega RB300/250 not sure which. Its similar to the Sondek in design and principle, and I still say the original design of the the LP12 was stolen by Tiefenbrun when he worked with Ariston on the RD40

I'd like to buy a small head amp and try them out again but my missus says no, perhaps one for my den upstairs

hedgehog

I've another question which certainly has an impact upon what I hear, but I don't know how it works for others.

Does the music sound different, or reveal more detail, when you follow the score while listening?

Jye

Perhaps you should answer a few questions first, like the one I asked earlier

Jye

Mission 752 Freedoms.

Top speakers btw, bought a pair from Laser Audio years ago. I didnt sell you them by any chance

Jye

Has to be a balance though - no point spending 30 on a CD player and 970 on speakers. A 200 cd player and 800 would be a better bet.

No, no, no. An £800 CD player and £200 speakers would be better. Some of you should read a few hi-fi mags

akshay67

Jye, you missed the point...I'm not disagreeing with you...

Some of you need to read the posts

PS - BTW Hi-fi mags are very biased IMO. What Hi-fi rated two of the most overated pieces of kit: the 67 KI Sig CD player and Tannoy M2 speakers - I could find cheaper stuff that was much better.

The best test for a hi-fi is your ears.

hedgehog

I did notice your earlier question but it's tricky for me to answer as my bits and bobs change a lot and I'm not sure it makes much difference to what is and what isn't a myth. Approximately it is:

Bosendorfer Imperial source
Bruel & Kjaer transducers (often 4006 but I don't want to get into the coincident pair debate, again.)
random bits of ADC/DAC depending on the day
ATC monitors

I do have some items that, I suppose, you may call graphic equalisers which, in the analogue domain, are designed by Rupert Neve. A range of digital "graphic equalisers" are usually available as well.

Now that we can pretty much see that stuff doesn't matter, back to my myth of the day, do you find that following the score changes what you hear, specially on more complex works?

C h a z

Thought you might like a picture of the office Hi-Fi


[Edited by C h a z - 12/30/2003 5:50:52 PM]

stormyuklondon1

chaz, they the new linn speakers? any good?

Jye

Chaz, yummm

Jye

Soz akshay67. I cant read, I can only hear in this thread

Jye

Anyway, for any 'non believers' who still think the speakers should be more expensive than the source (I wont let it lie, will I )...

Taken from a few examples (damn hard finding prices for some of this kit I can tell you ) from Grahams.

http://www.grahams.co.uk/buying/suggested_systems.htm


Marantz CD6000OSE CD Player £279.99
B & W DM 600 £199.95

Arcam CD 62T CD player £369.90
KEF Q3 loudspeakers £249.99

Arcam CD72 CD player £449.90
B & W 602.5 loudspeakers £393

Creek CD50 CD player £699
B & W 603 loudspeakers £500

Linn Ikemi CD player £ 1,950.00
Linn Ninka loudspeakers £895.00

TBO the higher up the ladder you climb the better the speakers seem to be, but as we have all said, if it sounds good to you.........

Happy listening

C h a z

Yep they'll be the new Linn besties. Not a bad sound all things considered

Jye

Cheer Hedgehog, would love to hear your kit btw

ProperCharlie

hang on, hasn't hedgehog cited a grand piano as his source?

that's cheating, surely?

btw Jye - mail me the link to your page, please.

[Edited by ProperCharlie - 12/30/2003 8:12:56 PM]

dba

anyone heard a Cymbol cd player?

hedgehog

OK, perhaps it is a little cheat but if I have to listen to hi-fi then that's what I'd listen to from choice. Sometimes it's Steinway, specially if it is a concerto, though the Bosendorfer is a better solo/sonata piano for most stuff up until 1920ish. (I can't play the piano at all by the way.)

There are a range of CD and DAT machines about, even a Nagra and a Studer A80 for analogue so I suppose they might count as sources as well. Less prefered :-)

Amusingly, at this very minute, I'm listening to an MP3 of the Prokofiev 3rd Piano Concerto on my PC using a pair of what, I suspect, are Wharfdale Active Diamonds. Do Wharfdale still exist? Fantastic music.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

yup

I have a pair of diamond S7's used as my PC speakers

Jye

Charlie you have mail.

edited to say dont expect any sort of sound quality from the AVI (WMedia), it was taken with my digi cam, just lets you see how they work

[Edited by Jye - 12/30/2003 8:40:45 PM]

edited again to say right click and dl, dont let windoze try to play em.

[Edited by Jye - 12/30/2003 8:44:14 PM]

Jye

--hang on, hasn't hedgehog cited a grand piano as his source?--

Yeah, I was assuming if he had that sort of kit he must be able to play chop sticks at least

EvilBevel

Admittedly, the man did some not so nasty stuff with mixing consoles []

But yeah, it only takes MP3 to unleash the real hi-fi potential of all this machinery :muhahaha smilie:

dba

Prokoviev MP3? I can beat that,The Freewheelin 180g vinyl at full pelt and i'm ignoring the missus shouting from the bathroom,its worth the inevitable bollocking

i can highly recommend this recording though

Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances/ Vocalise/ Etudes-tableaux

hedgehog

Mr. Neve is interesting in this debate for several reasons. Setting the way-back machine to about 1995 (i.e. things are not dead clear but this is how I remember it.) I had some contact with the Soundcraft people, for whom he was doing research. They asserted that he had been looking into digital audio performance and the one interesting thing to come out of it was that in (fairly) scientific testing he had concluded that people could tell the difference between 48 and 96KHz sampling rates. From what I can recall he couldn't produce any significant results with higher bit rates but that could just be a faulty way-back machine on my part. Anyhow, this was always something I was not dead sure on but if Neve says so then it must be true, I'm certainly inclined to believe that there is something in it. :-)

Neve made great EQ units for desks and many of the older modules are now in demand and worth a fortune. They look like something from the ark but are a work of art inside with eveything on little daughter boards. There must be enough gold in each one to make a decent wedding ring. I'm pleased to say that I have a secret stash of them but have seen people looking £4000ish for a "stereo pair."

I remember my first encounter with an SSL 4000 series desk with all the fancy EQ and dynamics in each channel etc. It was the bigest, fastest most amazingly complex machine on earth and, to my amazement and disappointment, the EQ was nowhere near as good or useful as Rupert's ancient looking old units that crackled from all the dust in the pots. :-)