hi-fi myths,or not?
28 December 2003, 11:10 PM
#34
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people offer all sorts of reasons for better sound at night. less mains interference due to less electrical appliances being used, and less drain on the transformers at the local substation. some poeple say that there is less vibration (if you live in town) due to less lorries and trains running. i think it's due to more scotch being consumed 
so what are we all listening to?
so what are we all listening to?
28 December 2003, 11:12 PM
#35
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Not really. SACD might, haven't been able to compare the results yet, but CD quality is ... erm... not the real thing.
Don't want to get into bits & bytes and kiloHertzes, but even in amateur studios these days you "downsample/dither" to 16 bit/24 kHz where you would typically record in 48 bits/96 kHz. And yes, that difference you can hear, but not in your average listening room.
Sure, you don't want to hear your neighbour starting up his power drill, but a clean mains is about as good as it gets. There are about 73 higher priorities after that
Don't want to get into bits & bytes and kiloHertzes, but even in amateur studios these days you "downsample/dither" to 16 bit/24 kHz where you would typically record in 48 bits/96 kHz. And yes, that difference you can hear, but not in your average listening room.
Sure, you don't want to hear your neighbour starting up his power drill, but a clean mains is about as good as it gets. There are about 73 higher priorities after that
28 December 2003, 11:17 PM
#37
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As somebody who knows nothing about all this sound stuff a question to the guys with the expensive hifi systems. Are you using cone speaker? Because a relative of mine has made his own speakers-don't ask me how they work, as he says that cone speakers have crap sound quality.
He has been tweaking these speakers he built for about the last 8 years at least.
He has been tweaking these speakers he built for about the last 8 years at least.
28 December 2003, 11:22 PM
#39
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EB - sure, CD is a compressed format, but a decent cd in a decent cd player still sounds pretty good. you need an expensive turntable/cartidge/phono stage to get over the limitations of vinyl replay. i reckon vinyl is ultimately superior, but i don't think there's that much in it.
28 December 2003, 11:28 PM
#40
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PC, after a few Scotches there is nothing in it.
I have never been a participant in the "vinyl vs CD" debate, don't get me wrong, but I do know how good instruments sound live, and I do know a thing or 2 about how to capture that on either digital or tape format.
I'm also not dissing CD, it's not a "my **** is bigger" thing, I'm just trying to say that I know people who have spend thousands on cables and mains, and their setup sounds... not good. I've also been involved with people who run top mastering studios, and their main concern was not "mains"...
In your typical household, even moving the sofa would often do more for the sound than a new super duper mains cable, that's what I'm trying to say.
Or a good malt of course
I have never been a participant in the "vinyl vs CD" debate, don't get me wrong, but I do know how good instruments sound live, and I do know a thing or 2 about how to capture that on either digital or tape format.
I'm also not dissing CD, it's not a "my **** is bigger" thing, I'm just trying to say that I know people who have spend thousands on cables and mains, and their setup sounds... not good. I've also been involved with people who run top mastering studios, and their main concern was not "mains"...
In your typical household, even moving the sofa would often do more for the sound than a new super duper mains cable, that's what I'm trying to say.
Or a good malt of course
28 December 2003, 11:31 PM
#42
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lol,the moving furniture thing is used every month in Hi-Fi mags technical "help" pages,so presumably they have all been written by single blokes
the position of sofas,rugs and cushions is life or death ffs,i could no sooner move the settee than buy my own nuclear powerstation
the position of sofas,rugs and cushions is life or death ffs,i could no sooner move the settee than buy my own nuclear powerstation
28 December 2003, 11:33 PM
#43
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EB - I see what you are saying now
thing is, for most people it's easier to stick a new mains cable in than to persuade the missus to ditch the sofa. i prefer a wing back chair, anyway.
my next project is to persuade the missus to forget the kitchen extension - instead build me a listening room based around the pefect ratio width:length:height (if that's possible).
i think i need a new stylus...
thing is, for most people it's easier to stick a new mains cable in than to persuade the missus to ditch the sofa. i prefer a wing back chair, anyway.
my next project is to persuade the missus to forget the kitchen extension - instead build me a listening room based around the pefect ratio width:length:height (if that's possible).
i think i need a new stylus...
28 December 2003, 11:41 PM
#46
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no, it means the sound from a pc is going to sh*t because of the sh*t source, the compressed signal, the rubbish sound card etc etc. get these sorted out and then it will sound rubbish cos of the interference from fans and the cheap power supply.
28 December 2003, 11:55 PM
#48
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Answer: after following sound quality debates for 13 years... it sounds good when it sounds good to you, when it does twang a nerve somewhere, when it does hit a certain feeling. Could come from the clock radio for all that matters.
But if you talk sound quality only, these things you can measure. Group buy on scopes anyone ?
But if you talk sound quality only, these things you can measure. Group buy on scopes anyone ?
29 December 2003, 12:10 AM
#49
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Hey EB, I'm sure it was a typo but do you realise that 48 bits will give you a dynamic range and s/n of about 300dB?
Don't know what you're recording but it's a fair sight more demanding than anything I've ever come across :-) Saves on all the expensive dither I suppose.
Don't know what you're recording but it's a fair sight more demanding than anything I've ever come across :-) Saves on all the expensive dither I suppose.
29 December 2003, 01:20 AM
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If not mentioned, years ago I made my own speaker cable using triple Cat 5 network cable runs in a 'twistys' formation and connected the appropriate wires (8 > 4 for biwiring). can say it certainly made a difference to the cable I had before (which was about ukp15/m) - I guess this is a well known DIY project?
29 December 2003, 02:39 PM
#52
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A nice overspecced powersupply should make much more difference than a power cable. As long as the powercable comes from a nice clean source (i.e. not the same ring main as the kitchen) and it is 'overspecced' i.e. a nice piece of 13Amp cable (not the 5 amp stuff) then there is no point buying anything more fancy.
Putting your CD player on Squashballs cut in half will make more difference to the sound than any powercable. If you are not using isolation platforms, then you are looking in the wrong place for sound quality improvements.
A PC =CAN= sound good, btw. The trick is to make sure that all the Analogue\Digital conversion (when recording) happens outside the PC and that the data flow between the ADC and PC is ERROR CHECKED (no SPDIF here!) and that the DAC is also outside the PC with an ERROR CHECKED link. CRCing the data before it gets to the DAC ensures things like noise and signal loss simply do not happen. The only place that there can be problems in this setup is software, which should also check the data integrity at every step of the way. This is the computer equivalent of using 'balanced feeds' in the analogue world, I suppose.
Certainly, if my source is digital, I WILL have parity based error checking, and I WILL keep everything in the digital domain as long as possible.
When rigging in digital for gigs etc, (Analogue is preferable, TBH as it sounds a LOT less clinical unless you wish to use at least 48Khz 16-bit....usually 24-bit 96Khz for preference....which is a LOT of data for ATM over Ethernet) DACs and Amps at stage with nice long error checked speaker runs is the order of the day. Indeed...with error checking, who needs the cable? Am in the process of investigating the viability of 54Mbs WiFi, though I suspect it has a way to go before it is as good as a wired ethernet connection.........
Putting your CD player on Squashballs cut in half will make more difference to the sound than any powercable. If you are not using isolation platforms, then you are looking in the wrong place for sound quality improvements.
A PC =CAN= sound good, btw. The trick is to make sure that all the Analogue\Digital conversion (when recording) happens outside the PC and that the data flow between the ADC and PC is ERROR CHECKED (no SPDIF here!) and that the DAC is also outside the PC with an ERROR CHECKED link. CRCing the data before it gets to the DAC ensures things like noise and signal loss simply do not happen. The only place that there can be problems in this setup is software, which should also check the data integrity at every step of the way. This is the computer equivalent of using 'balanced feeds' in the analogue world, I suppose.
Certainly, if my source is digital, I WILL have parity based error checking, and I WILL keep everything in the digital domain as long as possible.
When rigging in digital for gigs etc, (Analogue is preferable, TBH as it sounds a LOT less clinical unless you wish to use at least 48Khz 16-bit....usually 24-bit 96Khz for preference....which is a LOT of data for ATM over Ethernet) DACs and Amps at stage with nice long error checked speaker runs is the order of the day. Indeed...with error checking, who needs the cable? Am in the process of investigating the viability of 54Mbs WiFi, though I suspect it has a way to go before it is as good as a wired ethernet connection.........
29 December 2003, 10:15 PM
#54
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well,this guy disagrees,says its all snake oil basically
http://signal.ece.utexas.edu/seminar...AudioMyths.pdf
http://signal.ece.utexas.edu/seminar...AudioMyths.pdf
29 December 2003, 10:46 PM
#56
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Well this one is 'fact'.
Shi*te in Shi*te out.
Buy the best front end you can afford, be it CD, vinyl or whatever and take it from there. It amazes me the number of m8's I have who spend the bulk of their purchase on huge and expensive floor standers or similar to fire out the music from a £100 CD player. Mad.
Shi*te in Shi*te out.
Buy the best front end you can afford, be it CD, vinyl or whatever and take it from there. It amazes me the number of m8's I have who spend the bulk of their purchase on huge and expensive floor standers or similar to fire out the music from a £100 CD player. Mad.
29 December 2003, 10:54 PM
#58
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I agree with him. As I've said previously, if the amp is not broken and is designed correctly then you will have no issue with your mains cables, or any other mains cables.
Over the years I have slowly come to the conclusion that the best place to put your cash, in a hi-fi system, is into the speakers. Modern digital electronics are fantastic, though there is no question that there were problems with the reconstruction filters in early CD players, and most modern amps are pretty good as well. They might sound "different" from each other but my experience (hey, your mileage my vary) is that the speakers are the place to put your cash if you want "better" rather than just "different."
Over the years I have slowly come to the conclusion that the best place to put your cash, in a hi-fi system, is into the speakers. Modern digital electronics are fantastic, though there is no question that there were problems with the reconstruction filters in early CD players, and most modern amps are pretty good as well. They might sound "different" from each other but my experience (hey, your mileage my vary) is that the speakers are the place to put your cash if you want "better" rather than just "different."
29 December 2003, 10:58 PM
#59
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I agree with him.
So you reckon speakers can make something ****e sound better
How can that be? They are only meant to reproduce the sound as it comes from your front end via your choice of amplication, not alter it in anyway. They may colour the sound and that may be to your liking but its wrong in principle.
You dont by and chance own a graphics equaliser
So you reckon speakers can make something ****e sound better
How can that be? They are only meant to reproduce the sound as it comes from your front end via your choice of amplication, not alter it in anyway. They may colour the sound and that may be to your liking but its wrong in principle.
You dont by and chance own a graphics equaliser