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The End of Phase 1 ... The beginning of Phase 2

Old 01 March 2004, 10:36 PM
  #91  
Bob Rawle
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Nathan will host, I'll scan and mail maybe tonight but definately tomorrow, calced the torque from the Prosport graph, as far as I can tell it made between 350 and 355 ft lbs, I can measure it but accuracy is only to nearest 0.5mm !!! That compares very favourably with the PE numbers as well. Looking at the PE graphs I have in excess of 300 ft lbs from 3250 to 6100 rpm, boost held back abit so peak torque was araou8nd 4800 however that is a mapping issue not a car one and I corrected it for the Prosport run, I have peak boost on the road at 3600 (1.55 bar). Once induction is sorted and mapped (again !!!) I'll nip back to Uxbridge for another go.

bob
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Old 01 March 2004, 10:51 PM
  #92  
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sorry to jump on ur thread but did u get my last mail Bob??
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Old 01 March 2004, 11:19 PM
  #93  
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Jason, yes got it, catching up, reply tomorrow as its lengthy.

bob
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Old 02 March 2004, 01:04 AM
  #94  
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no problems Bob, no rush, just wanted to make sure u got it, thanks
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Old 02 March 2004, 09:31 PM
  #95  
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OK, here is the PE graph.



Conditions on the day were 2 degrees ambient outside, the runs were done with a starting intake air temp of 15/16 degrees. We did runs in 4th and 5th to check the differences, curves almost overlayed each other so stuck to 4th to keep things consistent. Peak boost was 1.55 bar, it held lower to start with which is why the torque curve seems to increase at 4800 or so, that was rectified for the ProSport run. It fell to 1.2 bar (again) above 5700 and up to the redline As mentioned we had some slip problems here as well.

Torque is in excess of 300 ft lbs between 3.3k and 6k rpm.

Not related but of interest ... folks will recall me commenting on a STi8 that runs sprints in Iceland, well the car has come to UK for its next upgrades, we ran it at G Force today, it made 402 bhp and 354 ft lbs, std engine internals, headers, my turbo, injectors, fuel pump, reg etc etc, Motec M800 management mapped by yours truly, the car in this form makes mid 11 sec quarters, all work on the car by Roger Clark Motorsport. Interesting benchmark on the quarter mile I thought and follows Andy F's times given he ran with about 430 bhp when he had his car. Bear in mind that five gear changes are necessary with the six speed box.

cheers

bob

Last edited by Bob Rawle; 02 March 2004 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 07 March 2004, 08:57 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
it made 402 bhp and 354 ft lbs, std engine internals, headers, my turbo, injectors, fuel pump, reg etc etc, Motec M800 management mapped by yours truly
What do mean by "my turbo" Bob ?
Everthing following to be understood as stk ?
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Old 07 March 2004, 09:16 PM
  #97  
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I mean the same Garrett hybrid as I have on my STi5, engine internals are std STi8 Eurospec, HKS headers, decat downpipe (open kneck), HKS Dragger exhaust, 650cc injectors, inlet pipe, big K&N cone, Walbro fuel pump, SX pressure reg.

bob
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Old 08 March 2004, 02:20 PM
  #98  
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Interesting that the stock twin scroll setup almost makes the same torque and probably much earlier ..... must be similat to the EVO twin scroll turbos which are great for torque and "reasonable" power but not when you are looking fo the ultimate top end setup.

Carlos H.
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Old 08 March 2004, 08:30 PM
  #99  
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Whats also interesting Bob is that turbo, as on your STi 5 made around 495 HP on your classic did it not? Why on the new age is it 90+ bhp down. Did you run more boost to get that figure?

Conrad

PS Bob I have found the next stage for you....GPMoto have produced there headers in a twin scroll format and brought out a twin scroll GT32 turbo kit to go with them. Even better is the fact that its a rotated mount configuration. Everything in one package.

Have a look here....

New Twin Scroll Upgrade from the USA

Last edited by The Fixer; 08 March 2004 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 08 March 2004, 11:16 PM
  #100  
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The STi8 was running 1.4 bar mid 1.3/1.28 bar top to get the 400 bhp, also mapped to do hard sprints and laps of Bruntingthorpe to boot, std engine so care needed. My Sti5 runs more boost than that, 1.8 ish, got it up to just over the 500 mark.

Torque is so good on the STi9 because full boost is achieved approx 1100 rpm earlier, and at 1.5 not 1.4 bar, main difference is that the STi8 just keeps making power whereas the STi9 is restricted, once I get an induction kit on it I will know for certain why. I have the graph of the STi8, if anyone is interested I could find away to publish it.
I'm not at all sure I need to change the existing std tubular headers, they sem to work well, as for turbo I have some thoughts on that already, could be I will need a different up pipe possibly.

bob
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Old 12 March 2004, 02:05 PM
  #101  
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Bob

Any news on wether the 'Induction Kit' made any difference?

Or is that going on this weekend?

Cheers

Nathan
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Old 12 March 2004, 06:29 PM
  #102  
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Hopefully this weekend, I have two options to try, one has an intake that is the same diameter as stock, and one is just a "touch" larger (thinking forward here). Unfortunately I will probably get the larger one first however not a real problem as when I try the other I just flash it back to as is now. I'm really looking to see if the intake is restricting the top end (which I think it might be).

It is K&N based with a custom trumpet.

Exhaust is available now BTW, first batch in production, will mail you the pricing Nathan, any one else interested please mail me as addy. I have pics as well.

thanks

bob
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Old 12 March 2004, 10:20 PM
  #103  
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Any observations on the qualitative aspects of the exhaust, Bob (sound, fit & finish etc.)? Would love to see photos of the production version.
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Old 12 March 2004, 11:41 PM
  #104  
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I have loads of photos, I need to sort out the web space as I keep "borrowing" and its not on, so I am going to have a good go at this over the weekend (I hope).

mail me off line and I can forward them in advance

bob
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Old 13 March 2004, 02:14 AM
  #105  
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bob, mailed you a couple of times this week and last re exhaust and other bits, no replies
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Old 13 March 2004, 09:01 AM
  #106  
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Not seen anything from you during the last week Jason, can you resend, maybe my Norton has your email listed as spam in my setup and that autodeletes, I'll set to manual just in case ... cheers

bob
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Old 13 March 2004, 09:15 AM
  #107  
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ok resent
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Old 13 March 2004, 02:11 PM
  #108  
Nathan L
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Bob

YHM

Nathan..
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Old 13 March 2004, 09:06 PM
  #109  
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Cheers Nathan duly returned

bob
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Old 14 March 2004, 11:00 AM
  #110  
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Pics for Bob.
















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Old 14 March 2004, 11:20 AM
  #111  
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Is that your local JDM STi9 meet Bob
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Old 14 March 2004, 12:13 PM
  #112  
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Very nice!
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Old 14 March 2004, 02:31 PM
  #113  
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Bob

YHM..... again......

Nathan.. the BR Developments stalker
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Old 14 March 2004, 04:29 PM
  #114  
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Right, this morning I put the "BIG MAF" induction kit on the car, started and it idled like a dog, which is only to be expected, so a maf rescale and its a happy bunny at idle but thats only idle, so out for a check, was a bit tentative as not sure what to expect, using my PSI3 as I have sorted the afr scaling to be accurate so no need for the wideband (says he). Some long term learning needed, but nothing extravigent, short term cruise and idle ended up as before, load and mass air figures similar to before but maf output voltage lower, as expected. Plucked up courage and gave it 50%, hmm that feels good, checked boost as I did the run and it stayed solid at 1.3, b4 it would have faded, more courage and gave it wot, over boost straight away but can live with till I tweak it, held mapped boost all the way up, still holding 1.4 at 7350 rpm, brilliant stuff !! That was third gear, then did a full blast "blat" from pole position (those that have been know what I mean) and once I got it straight again (double lol) it holds mapped boost in all gears to the red line .. so its sort of sorted as the air box WAS the limiting factor, so now the next limiting factor is ... either the std intake pipe or the turbo, think I'll bet on the intake. the chatter noise that was evident is still there in mid range but is gone above 5600 rpm. Now pulling the FULL 1.5 bar in 1st, and overboosting to 1.55 in 2nd,3rd, overboosting to 1.65 in 4th and 5th/6th. need to tweak the wastegate duty maps to steady that. Max load was 6.1, result from the increased diameter of the maf tube, max gm/sec was ... 289 ... close but still some headroom. bearing in mind that the numbers are now just numbers and not that meaningful. It ran with a IAM of 16 with a big ZERO in all areas of the learning map, scope there then. I am a very happy bunny as a result since theory is proved in practice.

sorry for the enthusiasm but ... I love it when a plan is coming together.

Induction is custom K & N based .. I have pics of that as well ... nathan ? I will get my act together honest.

bob
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Old 14 March 2004, 05:07 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
then did a full blast "blat" from pole position (those that have been know what I mean) and once I got it straight again (double lol) .
Perfect little corner off pole for getting the back out

Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
I have pics of that as well ... nathan ? I will get my act together honest.
No probs, just send it over.

All sounds excellent.

1.5 bar in 1st That must be bonkers. I can spin my wheels with 1.1 bar

Will the smaller MAF freindly diameter of my APS CAI be as restrictive as the original airbox? I can't see it being as its a smooth path for the air to follow but I'll be guided by you.

Cheers

Nathan..
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Old 14 March 2004, 05:14 PM
  #116  
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Its got to be better than the airbox IMHO however until I get the 68mm dia version on can't say for sure, pics will be "reduced" and mailed.

bob
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Old 14 March 2004, 05:59 PM
  #117  
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Cool Induction kit pics







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Old 14 March 2004, 06:22 PM
  #118  
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The wrapping over the coolant pipes is there to minimise heat transfer, its what I had to hand so not necessarily ideal however it did work, straightforward install and no problems with space etc.

bob
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Old 14 March 2004, 08:00 PM
  #119  
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LOL @ "pole position"

I actually thought that yesterday when we came round and lane 2 was empty at the red light

1.4 bar past 7K sounds sweet.....
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Old 15 March 2004, 12:59 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
(...) so now the next limiting factor is ... either the std intake pipe or the turbo, think I'll bet on the intake. the chatter noise that was evident is still there in mid range but is gone above 5600 rpm. (...)

bob
Bob, on the group N rally cars using either the Prodrive/Samco (not really made for a road car) or the STi inlet hose makes a big difference both to spool up and to sustained boost on the midrange before boost falls because of the restrictor .....
No wonder Prodrive is making on race fuel 53.5kgf-m of torque (387 lbf-ft) @ 3250 rpm .

Carlos H.
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