Harvey makes 585BHP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23 November 2003, 11:35 PM
#33
Not if he runs a quality fuel on the road too. 
No idea what Harvey does, but most people who run cossies at that level of power tend to have variable boost control to turn the boost down during road use in most circumstances. It's pretty pointless running max boost for most road driving.
No idea what Harvey does, but most people who run cossies at that level of power tend to have variable boost control to turn the boost down during road use in most circumstances. It's pretty pointless running max boost for most road driving.
24 November 2003, 07:45 AM
#35
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Engine Dyno - 807 Hp & 647Lbft (2.2 Bar)
621.2 Hp At The Hubs (So Far)
548.7 LbFt At The Hubs (So Far)
Vehicle Weight 1395Kg
0-60Mph - 2.79 So Far (Road Tyres)
0-100Mph - 5.99 So Far (Road Tyres)
1/4 Mile - 10.1 Secs @ 139 Mph
621.2 Hp At The Hubs (So Far)
548.7 LbFt At The Hubs (So Far)
Vehicle Weight 1395Kg
0-60Mph - 2.79 So Far (Road Tyres)
0-100Mph - 5.99 So Far (Road Tyres)
1/4 Mile - 10.1 Secs @ 139 Mph
chrisp - they do, because they are
Harvey,
Great result. What's the spec of the engine now? Is good to see fantastic results rather than speculation and theory
24 November 2003, 09:59 AM
#39
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Congratulations Harvey and Martin.
585 is just amazing.
I nearly went yesterday as well, but got bogged down with stuff I had to do, so I couldn't make it.
Shame.
Hope to see you on the rollers in Feb at Well Lane 7 Harv, than maybe we'll see the 600 barrier go
Cheers
Rich
585 is just amazing.
I nearly went yesterday as well, but got bogged down with stuff I had to do, so I couldn't make it.
Shame.
Hope to see you on the rollers in Feb at Well Lane 7 Harv, than maybe we'll see the 600 barrier go
Cheers
Rich
24 November 2003, 10:44 AM
#40
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John,
I don't recall Harvey saying that he was using controlled quality fuel on the rollers, but I may have missed that...
In all fairness it doesn't really matter what is used, the important thing is the result achieved, and it is truely excellent. Harvey hasn't posted on this thread yet, so it would be good if when he does, he'de let others know what he has used to achieve the result, so that expectations can be set accordingly...
With regard to the necessity to run good fuel, I should point out that the 555 BHP achieved on the dyno was with Esso SUL fuel and some NF additive. Previous experience has shown that a timing map developped on the dyno for this combination is safe on the road without NF (as verified by det cans), because the loads are much less, however I wouldn't do a track day without the additive because the loads are getting closer to what you see on the dyno. Duff fuel is a consideration, and the reason we have active timing control in the Pectel T6. Harvey appears to be running a Link so he too will have automagic knock retard
Cheers,
Pat.
I don't recall Harvey saying that he was using controlled quality fuel on the rollers, but I may have missed that...
In all fairness it doesn't really matter what is used, the important thing is the result achieved, and it is truely excellent. Harvey hasn't posted on this thread yet, so it would be good if when he does, he'de let others know what he has used to achieve the result, so that expectations can be set accordingly...
With regard to the necessity to run good fuel, I should point out that the 555 BHP achieved on the dyno was with Esso SUL fuel and some NF additive. Previous experience has shown that a timing map developped on the dyno for this combination is safe on the road without NF (as verified by det cans), because the loads are much less, however I wouldn't do a track day without the additive because the loads are getting closer to what you see on the dyno. Duff fuel is a consideration, and the reason we have active timing control in the Pectel T6. Harvey appears to be running a Link so he too will have automagic knock retard
Cheers,
Pat.
24 November 2003, 03:38 PM
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well done..mega figure..i bet only matched by the bills that go with it!!...i am only jealous..good luck with the 600bhp !!
pmsl@ p t m w ..wagons do rule its a fact..
pmsl@ p t m w ..wagons do rule its a fact..
24 November 2003, 09:46 PM
#47
No idea what the escort weighs Craig, but its an important factor in performance. You also need to know what transmition losses the car suffers from, being a transverse AWD system in an EVO it is posible it looses more than an inline AWD system too. Then you have to add in the drag coeficient which is significant above 100MPH, then add in the mui of the tyres used, etc..... Unless you know the full spec of the cars it's a bit unfair to question the BHP the engine is producing based on what another car achieved. Or do you get european and japanese dyno's that are calibrated diferently? 
Pat, i didnt say it wasnt posible, i said it's risky to use a pump fuel from the local petrol station when you are pushing to the limits. I personally wouldnt risk it for the cost of a drum of Elf. Why not use all the advantages you can when you are trying to get the last BHP out of it, it seems a bit strange not too. People pay a premium for fuel like Elf Turbo Max when they go racing and rallying, even with Pectel T6's, for good reason.
Pat, i didnt say it wasnt posible, i said it's risky to use a pump fuel from the local petrol station when you are pushing to the limits. I personally wouldnt risk it for the cost of a drum of Elf. Why not use all the advantages you can when you are trying to get the last BHP out of it, it seems a bit strange not too. People pay a premium for fuel like Elf Turbo Max when they go racing and rallying, even with Pectel T6's, for good reason.
24 November 2003, 11:00 PM
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John,
There are various reasons for using a controlled fuel in competition, and I don't think "engine safety" is high on the list of priorities, for the FIA, or governing bodies.
One of the main reasons for a controlled fuel, is to make sure some competitors don't get an unfair advantage by using fuels that enable them to achieve far more power.
I doubt anyone using race fuel, does so, without taking full advantage of tuning for extra power ! I can't imagine anyone tuning their engine to the limit on pump fuel, and then spending £3>£4.50 per lt on race fuel, just to be "safe".
For those people not competing under FIA, or similar rules, using race fuel is just like using nitrous, it's a means to an end.
Harvey's figures are terrific, and if he's using race fuel, it's just another means of achieving his goal, and if he can afford to run race fuel as his "daily" fuel........LUCKY him
Mark.
There are various reasons for using a controlled fuel in competition, and I don't think "engine safety" is high on the list of priorities, for the FIA, or governing bodies.
One of the main reasons for a controlled fuel, is to make sure some competitors don't get an unfair advantage by using fuels that enable them to achieve far more power.
I doubt anyone using race fuel, does so, without taking full advantage of tuning for extra power ! I can't imagine anyone tuning their engine to the limit on pump fuel, and then spending £3>£4.50 per lt on race fuel, just to be "safe".
For those people not competing under FIA, or similar rules, using race fuel is just like using nitrous, it's a means to an end.
Harvey's figures are terrific, and if he's using race fuel, it's just another means of achieving his goal, and if he can afford to run race fuel as his "daily" fuel........LUCKY him
Mark.
25 November 2003, 03:45 PM
#53
I would like to thank all of you who have taken the trouble to compliment me on this and other threads. THANKYOU.
Thanks are also in order for Bob Rawle, John Pye, Matt Clark Andy Forrest and Jonny Gavagan. Without their help, advice and encouragement I would never have got this far.
It has been very interesting getting to this level but I think that this is about as far as I can go with this ODB 2 litre.
The next 2 litre which has been started will have Omega pistons, some head work and cams and maybe some other mods all of which this engine does not have so I think that 600+ bhp is realistic once it is all bedded in.Certainly enough to keep the 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 litre engine builders concentrated. I might then have a go at a bigger capacity which should be a propper monster engine.
To answer a few questions. Here is the spec. Nothing is missed off as far as I know:
www.geocities.com/harveysmith3000
I am not running Elf Race Fuel (or any other race fuel) although I have tried some in the past. As I have run out of N.F. I got 25l toluene as a stop gap until new supplies of NF are received. I have two maps, one S.U.L and the other with more ignition when enhanced fuel is used.
The car is an every day driver and reasonably tractable.Pulls from 1700 rpm in 5th. It is not a handful to drive unless the throttle is pushed down at which point you need your wits about you. Those that have been in it can confirm all this. Consumption on a journey is around 22mpg and as low as 17mpg with cold starts, round town and a bit of WOT etc but usually nearer 22mpg. Round Croft, down below 6mpg is possible.
Thanks again and good luck with your own projects.
Oh and BTW as I am not doing much more to the STi Wagon for now my WRX Wagon with 250bhp/260 ftlbs and low 14s at the last meet at Elvington is now due for a buget power hike so that will occupy me over Christmas.
[Edited by harvey - 11/25/2003 9:11:50 PM]
Thanks are also in order for Bob Rawle, John Pye, Matt Clark Andy Forrest and Jonny Gavagan. Without their help, advice and encouragement I would never have got this far.
It has been very interesting getting to this level but I think that this is about as far as I can go with this ODB 2 litre.
The next 2 litre which has been started will have Omega pistons, some head work and cams and maybe some other mods all of which this engine does not have so I think that 600+ bhp is realistic once it is all bedded in.Certainly enough to keep the 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 litre engine builders concentrated. I might then have a go at a bigger capacity which should be a propper monster engine.
To answer a few questions. Here is the spec. Nothing is missed off as far as I know:
www.geocities.com/harveysmith3000
I am not running Elf Race Fuel (or any other race fuel) although I have tried some in the past. As I have run out of N.F. I got 25l toluene as a stop gap until new supplies of NF are received. I have two maps, one S.U.L and the other with more ignition when enhanced fuel is used.
The car is an every day driver and reasonably tractable.Pulls from 1700 rpm in 5th. It is not a handful to drive unless the throttle is pushed down at which point you need your wits about you. Those that have been in it can confirm all this. Consumption on a journey is around 22mpg and as low as 17mpg with cold starts, round town and a bit of WOT etc but usually nearer 22mpg. Round Croft, down below 6mpg is possible.
Thanks again and good luck with your own projects.
Oh and BTW as I am not doing much more to the STi Wagon for now my WRX Wagon with 250bhp/260 ftlbs and low 14s at the last meet at Elvington is now due for a buget power hike so that will occupy me over Christmas.
[Edited by harvey - 11/25/2003 9:11:50 PM]
25 November 2003, 04:21 PM
#56
Apologies Harvey, i must have picked up on you using the race fuel one day and thought you had continued with that. Toluene, nasty stuff, but it works.
Mark, when i refered to a control fuel, i meant a fuel that was carefully specified and controlled to ensure its consistency, these fuels tend to have high oxygen contents too, which aids in power delivery, hence Pats comments about him "going wrong somewhere" which started this mini debate.
The WRC spec fuel isnt very high up in terms of power generation, it has a relatively low RON specification of 102RON max and only 3.7% oxygen content. You can buy a fuel from Elf racing that is very good for generating high power levels, being 115RON and having a high lead content. If i were trying to get the max out of an engine to produce the highest RR figures i would use this, especially if i had the facility to run more than one map. The fact Harvey is using a pump fuel and a bit of additive shows how practical this setup is and that he hasnt reached the limits of what that engine could produce, which is amazing.
Mark, when i refered to a control fuel, i meant a fuel that was carefully specified and controlled to ensure its consistency, these fuels tend to have high oxygen contents too, which aids in power delivery, hence Pats comments about him "going wrong somewhere" which started this mini debate.
The WRC spec fuel isnt very high up in terms of power generation, it has a relatively low RON specification of 102RON max and only 3.7% oxygen content. You can buy a fuel from Elf racing that is very good for generating high power levels, being 115RON and having a high lead content. If i were trying to get the max out of an engine to produce the highest RR figures i would use this, especially if i had the facility to run more than one map. The fact Harvey is using a pump fuel and a bit of additive shows how practical this setup is and that he hasnt reached the limits of what that engine could produce, which is amazing.
26 November 2003, 07:58 AM
#59
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Arron,
Noise and flames are quite cheap.
£4.99 for a petrol can, £4 for a gallon and a bit of fuel, 99p for a lighter.
Just under a tenner and that'll give you all the flames and noise you want ;-)
Noise and flames are quite cheap.
£4.99 for a petrol can, £4 for a gallon and a bit of fuel, 99p for a lighter.
Just under a tenner and that'll give you all the flames and noise you want ;-)
26 November 2003, 04:35 PM
#60
"I doubt anyone using race fuel, does so, without taking full advantage of tuning for extra power ! I can't imagine anyone tuning their engine to the limit on pump fuel, and then spending £3>£4.50 per lt on race fuel, just to be "safe".
For those people not competing under FIA, or similar rules, using race fuel is just like using nitrous, it's a means to an end.
Harvey's figures are terrific, and if he's using race fuel, it's just another means of achieving his goal, and if he can afford to run race fuel as his "daily" fuel........LUCKY him
Mark."
I see you are speculating on me using race fuel. Well I was not. I also did not re-map for the run on the rollers but if I got Bob to do a specific map for that purpose I think 600+bhp has to be on the cards.
Nor was I sat in the car with a lap top while on the rollers as I have seen you do with Steven Darley at Well Lane in the past.
Now I have kept out of the way of you and your cronnies for the last month and it has been peaceful so let's keep it that way. The alternative is that I start another page on my site and start to list all failed turbos, under performing turbos, mapping failures and disasters, engine failures and so on from whatever source. Your choice and your cronnies I guess.
[Edited by harvey - 11/26/2003 4:55:24 PM]
For those people not competing under FIA, or similar rules, using race fuel is just like using nitrous, it's a means to an end.
Harvey's figures are terrific, and if he's using race fuel, it's just another means of achieving his goal, and if he can afford to run race fuel as his "daily" fuel........LUCKY him
Mark."
I see you are speculating on me using race fuel. Well I was not. I also did not re-map for the run on the rollers but if I got Bob to do a specific map for that purpose I think 600+bhp has to be on the cards.
Nor was I sat in the car with a lap top while on the rollers as I have seen you do with Steven Darley at Well Lane in the past.
Now I have kept out of the way of you and your cronnies for the last month and it has been peaceful so let's keep it that way. The alternative is that I start another page on my site and start to list all failed turbos, under performing turbos, mapping failures and disasters, engine failures and so on from whatever source. Your choice and your cronnies I guess.
[Edited by harvey - 11/26/2003 4:55:24 PM]