PPP - Should I ?
15 October 2003, 04:59 PM
#32
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Whitey,
Enjoy the alledgedly better quality backbox and chip as they are almost worthless when you come to sell - unlike the PPP which retians about 60-60% of its value as an official mod - that makes it good value in the longer term.
As for the power aspect - you would be talking minimal difference with a 15HP variance when you get to 270ish horses.
Enjoy the alledgedly better quality backbox and chip as they are almost worthless when you come to sell - unlike the PPP which retians about 60-60% of its value as an official mod - that makes it good value in the longer term.
As for the power aspect - you would be talking minimal difference with a 15HP variance when you get to 270ish horses.
15 October 2003, 05:53 PM
#33
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lol..theres nothing "alleged" about the quality differences between a PPP backbox (actually made by scorpion btw) and a hand made custom stainless steel full system. If you dont believe me (and I looked at both, several times over as I couldnt decide what to buy once upon a time) then check out the for sale section on scoobynet, theres several PPP backboxes for sale for as little as £100.
mrklaw - a custom remap (Ecutek 3) is just that, customised as in not fixed or pre-defined which is what the PPP map is. With a custom map the "mapper" sits in the passenger seat of your car whilst you drive around and he monitors the standard car's ecu settings and optimises the car's iginition, boost, fueling, air, etc. All these settings are tailored to how you want the car to behave (within reason) and make the most of your individual cars capabilities. Bear in mind that every car that rolls off the production line will be slightly different in some way, and custom mapping takes this into account.
Mccrash - the ppp kit supposedly pushes the cars power to 260 bhp and i say supposedly because on more than one occasion has it been said that the ppp kit doesnt get anywhere near that figure. Personally after attending a few rolling road days and seeing new PPP'd wrx's and sti's getting appalling figures I know the claim of 260 bhp to be very, very optimistic. A well mapped MY03 WRX with a fully decatted exhaust will reach 280 - 290 bhp all day long, and I know as I had mine rolling roaded at the same time as the 2 poor sods with the PPP'd wrx and sti8. Dunno where u got a 15bhp varience from. As for warranty issues u definately have a valid point but like i say what goes on a car can very easily come off....lol...i've got my standard exhaust tucked away in my garage should i ever need it again.
Pls dont think i'm out to slag off anyone who's parted with their hard earned cash to PPP their motor, i just think that whilst the guy who started this thread still has the choice to make he should be fully informed.
mrklaw - a custom remap (Ecutek 3) is just that, customised as in not fixed or pre-defined which is what the PPP map is. With a custom map the "mapper" sits in the passenger seat of your car whilst you drive around and he monitors the standard car's ecu settings and optimises the car's iginition, boost, fueling, air, etc. All these settings are tailored to how you want the car to behave (within reason) and make the most of your individual cars capabilities. Bear in mind that every car that rolls off the production line will be slightly different in some way, and custom mapping takes this into account.
Mccrash - the ppp kit supposedly pushes the cars power to 260 bhp and i say supposedly because on more than one occasion has it been said that the ppp kit doesnt get anywhere near that figure. Personally after attending a few rolling road days and seeing new PPP'd wrx's and sti's getting appalling figures I know the claim of 260 bhp to be very, very optimistic. A well mapped MY03 WRX with a fully decatted exhaust will reach 280 - 290 bhp all day long, and I know as I had mine rolling roaded at the same time as the 2 poor sods with the PPP'd wrx and sti8. Dunno where u got a 15bhp varience from. As for warranty issues u definately have a valid point but like i say what goes on a car can very easily come off....lol...i've got my standard exhaust tucked away in my garage should i ever need it again.
Pls dont think i'm out to slag off anyone who's parted with their hard earned cash to PPP their motor, i just think that whilst the guy who started this thread still has the choice to make he should be fully informed.
16 October 2003, 12:56 AM
#34
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Thanks everyone for their input .. Still not sure ..Probably would go for PPP if I could afford it ....
All cheques please make payable to " StevoWRX PPP Fund " ....
All cheques please make payable to " StevoWRX PPP Fund " ....
16 October 2003, 08:38 AM
#35
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If you do get a PPP go to cross roads. They fitted mine in 3 hours, gave me a courtesy car, oil & filter change and charged approx £1580 (with SIDC discount). Not bad.
Sounds much better, goes better but ask them to change your downpipe at same time - didn't do mine, wish I had as Tesco have increased my premiums for an entire replacement exhaust and a downpipe is meant to give you more go at lower revs which is what the car definitely needs. (Would have charged approx £350 for a handmade s/steel downpipe.)
Sounds much better, goes better but ask them to change your downpipe at same time - didn't do mine, wish I had as Tesco have increased my premiums for an entire replacement exhaust and a downpipe is meant to give you more go at lower revs which is what the car definitely needs. (Would have charged approx £350 for a handmade s/steel downpipe.)
16 October 2003, 07:18 PM
#36
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Well, having driven the standard WRX, the PPP version, a CTR and an EVO 7 I can honestly say that the easiest to drive fast on Brit roads is the WRX PPP - you may get slightly more power and a couple of milliseconds out of a non-warrantied mod but the financial hit isn't worth it - remember the NET hit is only about £600 notes as it carries 1k of its value to resale.
Whitey is right that you can reverse the mods he talks about but you have still paid dearly for them and they have no real resale value on or off the car.
And I concur about X roads - good dealer, good service.
Whitey is right that you can reverse the mods he talks about but you have still paid dearly for them and they have no real resale value on or off the car.
And I concur about X roads - good dealer, good service.
31 October 2003, 05:54 PM
#37
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Also drive an un-modded 01 WRX wagon, not even considered changing until today. One of my patients came in, saw the scooby screensaver, asked if I had one, said 'you must PPP it' and asked if I wanted a blast round the block. Unfortunately had waiting room full of people to see, so had to leave it till tomorrow. Then there will only be the small matter of persuading the wife. (holiday next year, or PPP now, votes please?)
31 October 2003, 06:08 PM
#38
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Unmodded WRX 5 door. Quite fancy PPP, but it's a lot of money that I haven't got at the moment...
Well, the car is unmodded apart from the back box. But that doesn't count as a mod...
Well, the car is unmodded apart from the back box. But that doesn't count as a mod...
31 October 2003, 07:09 PM
#40
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What's PPP actually stand for?
Does anyone have any news on wether you keep your warranty with a parallel import?? I've read a few posts about it, but they didn't seem to be conclusive
Does anyone have any news on wether you keep your warranty with a parallel import?? I've read a few posts about it, but they didn't seem to be conclusive
01 November 2003, 10:44 AM
#43
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If anyone's still reading this thread I got PPP on my WRX and it's the best bet on a new car IMHO, I'd agree with ohters that if your car is 2.5 yrs old go Ecutek, what you pay for is the peace of mind, I guess Prodrive have factored in an increase in warranty repairs to the cost so that's what you're paying for plus the increased value if you sell well within the warranty period.
The car is strikingly different from a std WRX which I drove prior to PPP ing mine.
If WRX PPP owners are getting low rolling road performance maybe they ned to re set the ECU which would take an infinate number of good fuel tankfulls to get back up to the full boost setting after a bad or 95 ron tank full??
The car is strikingly different from a std WRX which I drove prior to PPP ing mine.
If WRX PPP owners are getting low rolling road performance maybe they ned to re set the ECU which would take an infinate number of good fuel tankfulls to get back up to the full boost setting after a bad or 95 ron tank full??
01 November 2003, 10:52 AM
#44
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There's no need to reset the ECU manually on 01/02/03 cars - it does it itself. I takes 2-3 tankfuls of Optimax for the ECU to reset, if you've ever used 95UL, which Prodrive say causes a drop in power/performance anyway.
Cheers
Cheers
01 November 2003, 01:21 PM
#45
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Does anybody really know the warranty situation with Subaru? It must also surely be down to the dealer and their discretion. I have changed the backbox and installed K&N Panel Filter only on my new WRX (my mate builds exhausts) and I got a superb quality, custom built grade 409 Stainless box, polished out welds etc for around £200 built and fitted.
I cannot imagine that a back box will affect my warranty, only that Subaru would not cover the new box under their warranty.
Anyone got a clear, un-scared of Subaru style comment on warranty? I would be astonished if Subaru are any different in this respect (I not cover parts affected by the altered component but cover everything else - e.g. engine etc.).
Brian.
I cannot imagine that a back box will affect my warranty, only that Subaru would not cover the new box under their warranty.
Anyone got a clear, un-scared of Subaru style comment on warranty? I would be astonished if Subaru are any different in this respect (I not cover parts affected by the altered component but cover everything else - e.g. engine etc.).
Brian.
01 November 2003, 02:18 PM
#46
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If something like your turbo went, then couldn't Subaru claim that the alteration in back pressure was to blame? Just thinking aloud, as I know nothing about Scoobs...yet 
01 November 2003, 07:19 PM
#47
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Brian
I know where you're coming from, and can't really see your BB affecting the car in any serious way.
On the other hand, IMG and Subaru have the right to protect themselves from the myriad of mods out there, that can and do cause problems. The simplest, if not always the fairest, is to treat them the way they do. Your BB wouldn't be a problem if an electric window motor failed for example, but some could (and would) argue it was a contributing factor to say, Turbo failure, as James points out above.
To be honest, I've heard IMG/Subaru are actually much better than most when it comes to mods. I know Volvo, Peugeot, Citroen, Seat and Ford take a dim view.
Cheers - enjoy your BB - sounds like a good deal.
Mike
I know where you're coming from, and can't really see your BB affecting the car in any serious way.
On the other hand, IMG and Subaru have the right to protect themselves from the myriad of mods out there, that can and do cause problems. The simplest, if not always the fairest, is to treat them the way they do. Your BB wouldn't be a problem if an electric window motor failed for example, but some could (and would) argue it was a contributing factor to say, Turbo failure, as James points out above.
To be honest, I've heard IMG/Subaru are actually much better than most when it comes to mods. I know Volvo, Peugeot, Citroen, Seat and Ford take a dim view.
Cheers - enjoy your BB - sounds like a good deal.
Mike
02 November 2003, 02:27 AM
#48
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Cheers Toonman,
The back box is superb and completely top quality - the guys said it was the best sounding Impreza exhaust they had ever fitted. It is just right - almost silent when cruising but push it a bit and it is heaven.
http://www.stainlessexhausts.com
I fancy PPP but I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Scorpion will be as good or long lasting - is it a Stainless system - does anyone know?
The back box is superb and completely top quality - the guys said it was the best sounding Impreza exhaust they had ever fitted. It is just right - almost silent when cruising but push it a bit and it is heaven.
http://www.stainlessexhausts.com
I fancy PPP but I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Scorpion will be as good or long lasting - is it a Stainless system - does anyone know?
02 November 2003, 11:58 AM
#50
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28 November 2003, 08:09 PM
#51
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I've got a MY03WRX, black, still standard with the only mod being the track adjusted to take out the understeer.
This was done at POWERSTATION in Cheltenham. (I bought the car from Iain Litchfield at Litchfield Imports so took the car back to him).
As stated in a previous post,the car is virtually untouchable on the road. This was demonstrated last week.
I chased an '02 WRX with a lead on me of about 100yds. I was in a Volvo T4.......the WRX left me for dead.
I was up to over 110MPH in the wet and on a road with a posted speed limit of 30MPH, within about 1 mile, the WRX had opened up a lead of about a quarter mile and must have been over 130MPH.
Needles to say it got away, more thro' good luck than good driving.
I am in no way saying "how great am I" because like a thick midget, its not big and its not clever.
The point i'm making is that even in standard form the WRX is A MIGHTY ROAD CAR.
P.S. I'm not some **** who races on the road, I do it for a living in "marked cars".
This was done at POWERSTATION in Cheltenham. (I bought the car from Iain Litchfield at Litchfield Imports so took the car back to him).
As stated in a previous post,the car is virtually untouchable on the road. This was demonstrated last week.
I chased an '02 WRX with a lead on me of about 100yds. I was in a Volvo T4.......the WRX left me for dead.
I was up to over 110MPH in the wet and on a road with a posted speed limit of 30MPH, within about 1 mile, the WRX had opened up a lead of about a quarter mile and must have been over 130MPH.
Needles to say it got away, more thro' good luck than good driving.
I am in no way saying "how great am I" because like a thick midget, its not big and its not clever.
The point i'm making is that even in standard form the WRX is A MIGHTY ROAD CAR.
P.S. I'm not some **** who races on the road, I do it for a living in "marked cars".
28 November 2003, 09:38 PM
#52
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Whitey
The std WRX is very fast, (some of the professional modders on this site may disagree but in the real world I mean) biggest difference is in how the power is deliverred, it comes in much lower down the revs and to be honest you don't need to thrash the car to get really quick acceleration. It makes the car so much more torquey and driveable - the std feels strangled in comparison - honest!
I actually found the std wheels and tyres created a bit of understeer, to a bit of oversteer if accelerating through corners. The STi 8 wheels I have on now make the understeer more noticeable I guess due to the back end not peeling out at all now with the increased grip. (overall handling much improved, ride and tramlining much worse!)
Do you and your colleagues recon scoobs are amongst the hardest cars to catch then?
The std WRX is very fast, (some of the professional modders on this site may disagree but in the real world I mean) biggest difference is in how the power is deliverred, it comes in much lower down the revs and to be honest you don't need to thrash the car to get really quick acceleration. It makes the car so much more torquey and driveable - the std feels strangled in comparison - honest!
I actually found the std wheels and tyres created a bit of understeer, to a bit of oversteer if accelerating through corners. The STi 8 wheels I have on now make the understeer more noticeable I guess due to the back end not peeling out at all now with the increased grip. (overall handling much improved, ride and tramlining much worse!)
Do you and your colleagues recon scoobs are amongst the hardest cars to catch then?
29 November 2003, 12:24 AM
#53
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Guys, am concerned to hear Cross Roads being touted here as a good dealer to go to. After getting my 1000 miler done there on a recommendation I found I could have got it a lot cheaper at my local dealer - materials only, of course. And when I got them to quote on a bunch of extras for my STi, the prices they came up with for fitting were just ridiculous compared with other dealers. Just two examples: single boost gauge - they wanted well into three figures for fitting it, I got another quote for £40; mudflaps - they wanted three figures again while elsewhere wanted £20 the full set! I don't mind a dealer making a fair margin, but I'm not in the game to be conned.
When they told me they got Prodrive to do the PPP fitting on STis (but not on WRXs) I started to smell a rat... Now that's just my impression, but I would counsel caution.
When they told me they got Prodrive to do the PPP fitting on STis (but not on WRXs) I started to smell a rat... Now that's just my impression, but I would counsel caution.
29 November 2003, 02:24 PM
#54
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i had my sti8 ppp'd from new and it felt ALOT more respomsive than the standard demo i drove. I would like a bit more growl ideally.
What about putting a different backbox on. Would i get better sound?
What about putting a different backbox on. Would i get better sound?
29 November 2003, 02:29 PM
#55
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i had my sti8 ppp'd from new and it felt ALOT more respomsive than the standard demo i drove. I would like a bit more growl ideally.
What about putting a different backbox on. Would i get better sound?
What about putting a different backbox on. Would i get better sound?
05 December 2003, 11:29 PM
#56
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Macca
To be honest, the cars that i end up chasing range from crap granny metros to top end metal like 330i and M3 BMWs.
Around the side streets, even the fast cars cant get a lead even when we're driving 1.6 Focus s.(partly down to the tossers lack of skill and partly down to the short lengths of road ..they cant accelerate quickly enough).
The ********* tend to open up a lead when they get onto a straight in the fast cars, and then dont brake for junctions. We obviously do so this in turn means that we have that extra ground to make up.
We on the other hand make up for this by being that bit later on the brakes and actually having some skills to carry us through, but the overriding concern is for your own and others safety.
These idiots crash and not a great deal happens to them, a bobby has a bang and everyone wants to hang out of them. Plus we drive on our own licences, so if we get prosecuted, it affects us personally.
Its not all doom and gloom tho' most of the time we get what and who we want.
To be honest, the cars that i end up chasing range from crap granny metros to top end metal like 330i and M3 BMWs.
Around the side streets, even the fast cars cant get a lead even when we're driving 1.6 Focus s.(partly down to the tossers lack of skill and partly down to the short lengths of road ..they cant accelerate quickly enough).
The ********* tend to open up a lead when they get onto a straight in the fast cars, and then dont brake for junctions. We obviously do so this in turn means that we have that extra ground to make up.
We on the other hand make up for this by being that bit later on the brakes and actually having some skills to carry us through, but the overriding concern is for your own and others safety.
These idiots crash and not a great deal happens to them, a bobby has a bang and everyone wants to hang out of them. Plus we drive on our own licences, so if we get prosecuted, it affects us personally.
Its not all doom and gloom tho' most of the time we get what and who we want.
06 December 2003, 11:41 AM
#57
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whitey,
Got to agree with you. Watching thise tossers on the Yorkshire Police programme doesn't half pi$$ me off.
What's worst though is often the almost pathetic punishment that gets dished out in the courts for such reckless driving. I'd bet if I were caught doing over 100mph by a speed camera on adeserted Mway at 3am I reckon I'd get a harsher punishment that someone who joyrides, is 16 and is risking peoples lives in built up areas for a laugh.
Got to agree with you. Watching thise tossers on the Yorkshire Police programme doesn't half pi$$ me off.
What's worst though is often the almost pathetic punishment that gets dished out in the courts for such reckless driving. I'd bet if I were caught doing over 100mph by a speed camera on adeserted Mway at 3am I reckon I'd get a harsher punishment that someone who joyrides, is 16 and is risking peoples lives in built up areas for a laugh.
06 December 2003, 12:26 PM
#58
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you could spend your £1600 on proper engine tuning and get a lot more then 40bhp
with good quality recipts and sum photos/history of the car being converted you will also have no problems selling the car in the future with regards it looking like your a proper enthusiast and not just a knacker with a lust for crazy driving
although you must take into acount the warrenty side of the coin, i myself dont have a warrenty so that is not a problem
with good quality recipts and sum photos/history of the car being converted you will also have no problems selling the car in the future with regards it looking like your a proper enthusiast and not just a knacker with a lust for crazy driving
although you must take into acount the warrenty side of the coin, i myself dont have a warrenty so that is not a problem
06 December 2003, 10:25 PM
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IMHO Prodrive parts are always over priced and you can buy equivalent or better bits for your Scooby from the vast range of aftermarket tuning companies, eg exhausts, wheels, strut braces, suspension, body parts. Pick any component and I'm sure you can buy equivalent or better cheaper. ie ridiculously priced mudflaps!! Alloy wheels at £275 each!! etc
This makes me feel that the PPP kit is no different and the warranty issue is the only fear inducing carrot. If you don't drive your car like Colin McRae then IMO the engine is more than man enough to cope with the correct modifications.
The issue with the STi 7 PPP fuel pump problem was all smoke & mirrors and then suddenly an up rated pump was included in the STi 8 PPP. The other thing Prodrive fail to mention in any of their blurb is the MPG (18mpg?).
As you can guess I've went for the alternative route and the other advantage is that you can spend money on the upgrades in a progressive manner rather than shelling out £2K in one hit.
The PPP exhaust doesn't sound or look very impressive and this seems to be backed up by the number of guys now changing them for something more sexy. And why does the PPP retain the crappy std paper filter element when surely a more efficient ITG or K&N filter would flow more air and does not need replacing?
This makes me feel that the PPP kit is no different and the warranty issue is the only fear inducing carrot. If you don't drive your car like Colin McRae then IMO the engine is more than man enough to cope with the correct modifications.
The issue with the STi 7 PPP fuel pump problem was all smoke & mirrors and then suddenly an up rated pump was included in the STi 8 PPP. The other thing Prodrive fail to mention in any of their blurb is the MPG (18mpg?).
As you can guess I've went for the alternative route and the other advantage is that you can spend money on the upgrades in a progressive manner rather than shelling out £2K in one hit.
The PPP exhaust doesn't sound or look very impressive and this seems to be backed up by the number of guys now changing them for something more sexy. And why does the PPP retain the crappy std paper filter element when surely a more efficient ITG or K&N filter would flow more air and does not need replacing?