The Fixer

Cheers Scott, managed to dig out details on the Subaru WRX tumbler manifolds how they work.

Tumbler Workings

Conrad

STi 8 Rob

Hi there Conrad.
Any luck with the exh.manifold yet??
My brother in-law has an STi 8 which is beeing tuned to a stiff 500 hp. For the time being we have managed to get 347.6ps @5818rpm and 454.9nm@4701rpm on the dyno with very modest modifications.
- 3" Turboback, no cats
- FMIC
- K&N induction kit (modified )

Boost is set at about 1.3 bar max.

The engine will be totally rebuilt with STRONGER internals the coming winter and absolutly everything in the driveline will be updated.
At the moment we are having an argument about what turbo to use. One option is a used BB Garrett GT-25 which has been in a GT-4 Celica (462hp@1.2bar) but i think its a tad small, rather something like a BB Garrett GT-35R even if we will need to fit an ext. wastegate.

Letīs hope we all get the amount of power we are looking for!!!

Robin

p.s.

Itīs snowing outside...

The Fixer

Robin, exhaust headers are lost in Germany somewhere. Current status of car is that it runs fine albeit down on power(362HP) but there are still a few issues with cold / warm starts. GEMS have made a new eprom to overcome the weak cam signals on the STi 7 & 8. This is to be tried soon. Once I get the car starting as its supposed to do then I will try & extract some more from it. Cant go too far as I'm still on standard internals. 500 hp should do me.

As for you turbo selection, might be better to try a hybrid Garret, small exhaust housing bigger compressor wheel & cover???? Depends what power your looking for when you have done the rebuild.

Conrad

STi 8 Rob

Hello there.
I am a bit confused about the turbo at the moment as there are so many different options that might suit the engine.
As i said, in the end we will be looking for 500+ hp and that would be 500+hp everyday.
Some type of hybrid turbo could do the job but try to find the right one here in Finland...

Drive safe

Robin W

The Fixer

Rob YHM

Conrad

The Fixer

Gruppe-S Headers finally arrived after 3 weeks

Now how does this exhaust wrap fasten on

Conrad

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Lock wire?

The Fixer

Is that it, its just held on with lock wire nothing else?

Conrad

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

You can either by the special exaust wrap clips or just use locking wire.

I used locking wire on mine, and its been fine, just make sure you doing it tight.

Steven

Pavlo

soak wrap in water first.

overlap about 8mm.

I used lockwire in a criss-cross fashion. That is start with a length, offer up the middle to the pipe, take each tail and twist together on far side of pipe. Then take the tails back round to the front, moving along the pipe, put a twist in, back around and another twist (or two) and so on.

If you put a couple of twists in each time, you end up with the whole lot independently secured along the whole pipe.

Don't wrap the slip joints with continuous wrap, add some seperately if you want, due to movement in the pipe.

Try to avoid wraping 2 pipes in one go unless you absolutely need to, seperate pipes with lever if required.

Also, I tried to measure out required length of wrap to do each bit then cut to size, that way you don't have to pass the whole roll for each wrap, but obviously you don't want to be left a few inches short.

Hope that helps

Paul

[Edited by Pavlo - 12/16/2003 1:07:15 PM]

The Fixer

Cheers, I already have my wrap, lockwire and pliers. I'll give it a go when I get back.

Rough estimation of how long it takes to put these on?

I'm assuming three bolts on each flange, 3 flanges. Up pipe off turbo also,(so I can wrap that and check if up pipe fits flat to flange of headers)

Conrad

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

It wont take you long to put them on, it MAY take you a while to take the oem ones off

DW and I did mine the other day in under 2 hours, and we had a few problems due to a leak.

Steven

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Forgot to say, when i did Alan Bells it took me the best part of the daylight hours, due to the old system not wanting to come off without using an angle grinder in places!

The Fixer

Hopefully shouldnt take too long, up pipe hasnt been on that long. I'll coat all the bolts in WD40 the night before and get the angle grinder out ready.


Update on car : GEMS have had my car on Monday (Steve Simpson drove it there) due to the ongoing cold start, warm start, never start issues I have seen for myself that the cam sensors have a very narrow working band and this band is not in the very cold or very warm temperature range. Car would not start at all on GEMS Sunday (Very Cold Day). Upon trying the OEM ECU, to try and start the car it fired up straight away...it was turned off immediately. The cam sensors were unplugged (still on the OEM ECU) and it still fired up. BINGO! The OEM ECU uses "wasted spark" to fire the engine up, this must of been the OEM software frig in the standard ECU's to get over the weak cam signals on the STi 7 & 8's. I am happy to report it appears to be now cured. GEMS have rewrote the software For the later model ECU's to fire off a wasted spark system rather than use the cam sensors. Thanks to Steve Simpson and GEMS for the extra effort involved (although he has enjoyed driving my car around for the last couple of days )

Best not to mention about "on road" mapping, don't think they do hands free laptops whilst driving & mapping over the last 250 miles

Is this the road to recovery I ask myself???? Or should I stop kidding myself and trade it in for an EVO VIII

Conrad

David_Wallis

interesting.

David

The Fixer

DW, What that I want an EVO Viii?

Whats the general opinion in trying to increase spool up?

More Ignition?

Conrad

David_Wallis

conrad..

race fuel

NOS

carefull ignition and fuelling

Antilag.

oh and wasted spark was the interesting bit.
erm..

David

[Edited by David_Wallis - 12/16/2003 6:35:28 PM]

The Fixer

David, dont want to use race fuel, NF or NOS on this engine. The wasted spark theory is used only on to start the engine, I believe MY96/MY97 use this method as well (and Sti 7 and 8's it would now seem) once running it uses the cam sensors.

Careful ignition and fuel... more advance or retard to spool up quicker?

Conrad

Bob Rawle

You'll find that all Scoobs do it, try putting a timing light on a car on the rollers, the switch over point is at an interesting rpm level.

bob

The Fixer

All scoobs do what bob?

David_Wallis

LOL.

The Fixer

All Scoobs do What?

What switch over point?


I'm lost, selling up and off to the MLR!

Subaru P o S

john banks

Well mine only has two coils, so how can it run anything other than wasted spark all the time?

David_Wallis

Have a read of this..

http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000468.html

lol at conrad.. got those pics yet for me?

Bob Rawle

Do the check John, I did.

bob

john banks

Bob, neither I nor John Pizzuto (who designed the J&S Safeguard and has been working with ignition systems for years) could understand what you meant previously about how using only two coils and four plugs you can run wasted spark until 4000 RPM and then sequential above 4000 RPM. He said it had to be wasted all the way. His device would not work if he was wrong. It does work, with no hiccups or loss of control at 4000 RPM - it works seamlessly either side.

How many degrees of crank rotation are there between sparks below and above 4000 RPM?

I don't doubt the integrity of your observations, but they don't stack up with what others are saying. Can you expand a bit more on it so we can sort it out?

David_Wallis

John, you run wasted spark on the My98+

MY92-96 isnt iirc..

if there are only two coils and four cylinders and no dizzy then your forced to run wasted spark.. however you could fire all four cylinders whilst starting.. oops no you cant as thats wasted spark.

im confused... more stella
David

john banks

Me: "I hear that my 2 coil setup runs wasted spark below 4000 RPM and sequential spark above that. How does this work with 2 coils and would it have any implications for using the Safeguard?"

J&S: "Waste spark all the way. It's sequential, too. First one coil, then the other.

Your source is confused. Flee."

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...k&pagenumber=2

Bob Rawle

Just reporting what was observed, since there are only two apparant ecu pins used plus ground and power supply it would seem logical to assume wasted all the way however clear observation showed otherwise above circa 4k rpm(in that area I can't be bothered to get my notes out). Unless the difference was wasted spark to 4k and then some form of modified wasted above, either way the timing showed a factor two offset at the switch over, it repeated and was not a one off, this was my own oem ecu in my car (STi5), I have also observed on other oem versions as well, it aroused my curiosity at the time.

Anyone got any further thinking on this ? The wiring diagram doesn't support the observation, had put it to the back of my mind till this thread came up.

BTW I run Motec's fully sequential with no starting issues, does take maybe two crank revs more to get the sensor output up. Link emulates the factory ecu in that respect though.

cheers

bob (looking for something stronger than Stella !!)



bob

Andy.F

I can't see how 2 coils, paired up to run 4 cylinders can do anything other than wasted spark ignition ? Unless there is some form of multiple spark discharge (as per MSD) until a certain rpm ?
What does this mean Bob ?

Andy