LG John

I find benching in a rack doesn't give me as good a work out and won't build my stablizing muscles.

Is 20kg flat bench improvement do-able in 2 months or should I aim lower?

CC

saxo boy i'd say yes but it also depends on where ure at i.e. a total newbie would easliy accomplish that but i think ure nearing 100kgs and things start to feel heavier then.

it's do'able but certainly not easy...just make sure ure doing everything right (consistency, supplementation, diet etc) and give it ure best shot!

dont sacrifice ure form for weight and start bouncing the bar off ure chest or doing half reps etc just to go a bit heavier.

milo

you can only break down the fibres so much. why go overboard? why not let the muscles start recovering by fuelling them and resting? you can definitely overtrain in one workout. aside from which, if you're able to keep lifting more than say 16 sets in a workout, you probably don't have enough intensity.

too much time in the gym and cortisol will start kicking in. not to mention possible catabolism.

milo

it depends essentially on how long you've been training, whether you're getting the right workouts, nutrition and rest and many other factors. if you can do 1x80, you can probably do 3x75, so you're looking at a 33% increase on your 3rm in 12 weeks. possible for a relative newbie, but if you've been lifting a while it will be tough.

i would suggest a 5x5 plan with progressive loading. wsb would be better, but you'll miss out on hypertrophy (i assume the goal is to gain muscle mass too).

LG John

wsb

milo

regarding the spotter question.

i think people were confused by si's response... according to his post, he DOES have a spotter - the power rack. without intending to put words into his mouth, he is stating that you don't need a person to spot you.. which is correct.. but you DO need something to spot you, be it a power rack, spotter bars or a person. it's not worth the risk without.

are you sure you're not confusing a rack with a smith machine?

Sub97

I would agree with Milo on this. I've been told that you shouldnt be doing more than 12-15 sets a workout session. If you have any energy left after these then you weren't doing the sets hard enough.

Super_Si - Ive done benching in a power rack and with a barbell, and for me I get much more out of the barbell. If you dont want to use the power rack then a spotter is essential in going to failure. I agree that if you havent got a spotter its best to use a power rack though and go to failure on that, but if there's two of you, a barbell bench is much better - IMO.

milo

westside barbell.

strength-based training which essentially revolves around an upper body and a lower body routine - two routines for each - one max effort and one dynamic. so your split would look like this:

day 1: max effort upper
day 2: max effort lower
day 3: rest
day 4: dynamic effort upper
day 5: dynamic effort lower
day 6 & 7: rest

max effort = work up to your 1rm
dynamic = speed work and partial movements

it works on partial movements and strengthening weak points.

VERY effective and proven for strength. don't expect much hypertrophy from it tho.

milo

nope.. you're spot on.. especially regarding assisted lifts to get another rep or two out. VERY important especially if you're going low-volume (which imho you should!) where every set is vital!

i almost always work out alone now (i will have to when i can eventually afford to build my own gym.. lol)... and have done for a long time.. but when i used to sometimes work out alone, and sometimes workout with a spotter, i could lift a bit more when the spotter was there, even if he wasn't needed... motivation probably.

super_si

True but doing strongman i dont bench anyway its not essential.

In reply to CC's i wouldnt be squatting 200kg if i wasnt confindent of even doing 1 rep. Even doing 160 i was very confindent and knew i would squat it. Best thing to do is do walk outs. Stack the weight on and just walk out of the rack with it. Gives you an awareness of what its like.

Once my backs healed im gunning for 4 plates by mid November im very confindent of doing it now. very. Just need to see what the damage is in half an hour. Pretty sure ive dont tendon damage on the left side my spine

Si

CC

well we'll have to agree to disagree because even if i think i can do a certain weight, if it's heavy and it's benchin or squattin etc i want someone following me just in case.

I feel more comfortable with someone there in case i get in trouble, i want to be fully focused on the lift not on if i fvck up and get squashed lol! But it's horses for courses.

I dont think a rack or whatever will ever replace a person spotting u! try asking a rack to help u with a forced rep lol !!

super_si

I dont see the point of forcing a rep if my spotters taking the brunt?? Even i do it to failure myself or i step back get mad again and have another crack. I find training along makes me more focused then training with my mate. If the girlfriend comes then its a complete disaster just cant get in my zone

I feel confident because i know the fact will take it,on the squat the only place you could fails just above the lowest point not as if your gonna fail at the top is it? So the weight is always going to be under some kinda of control?

as for getting squashed ive being wedged in the leg press before scrapped them for front squats scared of it now hehehehe

milo

try asking a person to catch the kind of weight you'd be squatting with if you ever have to throw it off your back...

both have their pros and cons...

milo

that's because you do strongman training and in many cases are probably doing 1 rep.

those people looking for hypertrophy are aware of the benefits of going beyond failure.

CC

si, milo's already answered y i like a spotter re forced reps..

milo, not for one minute wold i expect a spotter to 'catch' a heavy weight!!!

if i do fail when squatting, because i only go to a weight i feel i have a good change of getting ie i've done 8 reps at a marginally lower weight, the spotter literally only has to give me very gentle assistance when i fail.

i squat *very* slowly and controlled. slow on the way down, pause, then although i blast it back up with max effort, it's still slow and controlled....so if i fail it's about 1/3 of the way up, and at this point i make sure my spotter has the inside of there elbows actually just under my armpits (no BO jokes please ), and so they only need to add the slightest of of pressure at this area to let me complete the lift .

I've never threw a weight off my back, ever .

But i have failed on the upward movement off the squat but still managed to complete the movement with the help of a spotter.

This has allowed me to squat 200kg and people have commented on my leg development.

So my method of squatting and use of spotters has done me no harm .

CC

Just to add to the above...

as previously posted, I have never threw a weight off my back, but I have squatted without a spotter, failed the lift, and fell into the rack, looking like a complete a$$hole in the process lol

milo

i'm talking more in terms of.. for example.. if something bad happens (touch wood it won't) and you suddenly have to bail the bar off of you. it *could* happen. hopefully it won't.. but it could.

super_si

Woohoo its only muscle damage week off max

Suppose each to there own, i just prefer training on my own that way no accidents showing off or showing my mate up hehehehe

CC

yeh i suppose, so i guess that counts u out of ever spotting me when i go for 220kgs lol ?

never actually even had a near miss in the gym other than the usual training training wear n tear....only thing ive ever done is trap me thumb between a 30kg dumbell and the dumbell rack, that hurt.

super_si

Worst thing i did was running over the gym to see some fit bird down stairs For getting the bar was loaded up for a dead lift.

Lost half my shin

LG John

Quite likely I've just figured out what the rack is and we have one at our gym for squatting

super_si

milo

why do u need a spotter for your warm-up sets?!?

milo

isnt that the evernew rack?

they're just down the road from me

always wondered if that one was any good... £200 and supposed to be good for 1000lbs.

CC

lol @ si 'the perve'

**** me milo if thats wot u warm up wif, i give up !!!

King RA

Is doing squats better than using the leg press machine, the leg press machine I use goes at a 45degree angle up so gravity plays less of a part, but do the squats work more muscles?

milo

in a word, yes.

expect your quads, hams, lower back, glutes, hips etc to get worked on squats. expect to pretty much work only your quads to get worked on leg press.

super_si

Squats is the king ding aling excercise

Our racks kinda simplar too that, does the trick for me

Si

Ridge Racer

well it depends on what kind of training you are doing , i didn't realise you were doing powerlifting !! but forced reps with someone spotting , with some exercises , are a definite step forward .

super_si

Im not a power lifter either Strongmans my ambition and strong man i will do

the fundamental different is scrap the bench press for overhead work . Also power lifting about moving heavy gym weights whereas strongmans heavy Objects

Si

Just to add i was told by my trainer pick a weight i can do x amount of reps at. So im picking heavy weights that by the 2-3 rep im fooked so i force out the final one anyway



[Edited by super_si - 9/26/2003 6:18:40 PM]