Thanks to rover
09 September 2003, 09:33 AM
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"My local ARG-now MG-R dealership sales staff have always been courteous, helpful, willing to go that final quid to secure the deal and so they've had my business. The same is true of the service department. The exact opposite of your findings..... puzzling that... Why is it that some folks find poor service and attitudes frequently whilst others always appear to get better treatment? I rarely have such problems ever! Just lucky I guess or .... Attitudes are a two way thing. "
MGJohn, mate, with all due respect, your post is implying the poor service is down to the way I act with the staff. I strongly disagree , and its a bit of a Roverish attitude ;-) . I buy a car, it goes wrong time after time after time, I expect it to be fixed while under warranty. I give Rover another chance and buy a new Rover. It goes wrong time after time (note, only 2xtimes this time). Once again, the service staff are inefficient and at times, arrogant.
I have a BMW now, the service they provide is actually really good, and I have not encountered any inefficiency or arrogance. Not saying this does not exist, but the 3 dealers I have dealt with have been excellent.
Example, 9 times for an oil leak in a few months. It takes up a lot of my time to do this. By about time 5, the staff, who knew me by then sounded fed up to hear it was me again! Sadly, every time I was assured it was checked... it leaked on the drive as soon as it was parked.
My wife commented "no wonder they are in trouble".
"When the then Cassius Clay (later M.Ali) bad-mouthed his boxing opponents in his oh so big-headed way early in his career, many sporting writers chastised him saying things like he was lowering the tone of the sport and accused him of much worse. In fact he did just the opposite with that apparently "lowering the tone" behaviour. He alone elevated boxing to a level never before seen in the history of the sport."
A good analogy, with one fundamental flaw... Clay achieved what he did because he was extremely talented, not because he shot his mouth off. Indeed, as you point out, arrogantly shooting his mouth off was perceived negatively. Similarly with Rover, they make good cars, but they are not exceptional, nor class leading. Furthermore, look at the cars they compare.
"....and there's a bonus ...the sales receptionist at that particular dealership has a set of the most impressive thorax growths this side of Jordan ..."
Can't compete with that one!
MGJohn, mate, with all due respect, your post is implying the poor service is down to the way I act with the staff. I strongly disagree , and its a bit of a Roverish attitude ;-) . I buy a car, it goes wrong time after time after time, I expect it to be fixed while under warranty. I give Rover another chance and buy a new Rover. It goes wrong time after time (note, only 2xtimes this time). Once again, the service staff are inefficient and at times, arrogant.
I have a BMW now, the service they provide is actually really good, and I have not encountered any inefficiency or arrogance. Not saying this does not exist, but the 3 dealers I have dealt with have been excellent.
Example, 9 times for an oil leak in a few months. It takes up a lot of my time to do this. By about time 5, the staff, who knew me by then sounded fed up to hear it was me again! Sadly, every time I was assured it was checked... it leaked on the drive as soon as it was parked.
My wife commented "no wonder they are in trouble".
"When the then Cassius Clay (later M.Ali) bad-mouthed his boxing opponents in his oh so big-headed way early in his career, many sporting writers chastised him saying things like he was lowering the tone of the sport and accused him of much worse. In fact he did just the opposite with that apparently "lowering the tone" behaviour. He alone elevated boxing to a level never before seen in the history of the sport."
A good analogy, with one fundamental flaw... Clay achieved what he did because he was extremely talented, not because he shot his mouth off. Indeed, as you point out, arrogantly shooting his mouth off was perceived negatively. Similarly with Rover, they make good cars, but they are not exceptional, nor class leading. Furthermore, look at the cars they compare.
"....and there's a bonus ...the sales receptionist at that particular dealership has a set of the most impressive thorax growths this side of Jordan ..."
Can't compete with that one!
09 September 2003, 05:46 PM
#152
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skittles,
When I wrote what I did I half anticipate that some may just see it that way but, I can assure you, it was not meant to imply that. How could it, I have had no dealings with you and from your various postings which I usually enjoy reading (unlike those of some I could mention..
) you come across as a well reasoned guy.
I also expected a similar response about the young Cassius Clay .... Skittles ... You hit the King Pin Spot on! He was indeed a class act which you can't always say about car manufacturers. However, the professional commentators at the time were slow to appreciate the exceptional talents of the man. His ploys were not universally welcomed but they did indeed raise the profile of pro-boxing.
Such tactics may just work for Rover. IMHO, the professional motoring commentators have for several decades now far too often bad-mouthed any Rover product that comes their way including some of the better ones simply because it was ... a Rover. This has rubbed off on many car buyers on the basis "If the professionals say so, then it must be right". Thus, coming from such a lowly already "cheapened" standing in the meantime, such apparently brand cheapening tactics (if that is what is generally believed - not by me) could only go in one direction if they move at all.
To be fair though, there does appear to be a change of mindset with much of the motoring media in its various forms, and MG-Rs products appear to get a fairer appraisal of late. Previously, from their writings on then ARG products, they were so completely against my own personal direct observations and experiences that I got the impression that they wrote that 'mindset' stuff without actually driving the cars.
On the subject of recent MG-R product appraisals; Auto Express's recent two page item on the CityRover is a good example which for this particular 'true brit' enthusiast, makes a refreshing change.
When I wrote what I did I half anticipate that some may just see it that way but, I can assure you, it was not meant to imply that. How could it, I have had no dealings with you and from your various postings which I usually enjoy reading (unlike those of some I could mention..
) you come across as a well reasoned guy.I also expected a similar response about the young Cassius Clay .... Skittles ... You hit the King Pin Spot on! He was indeed a class act which you can't always say about car manufacturers. However, the professional commentators at the time were slow to appreciate the exceptional talents of the man. His ploys were not universally welcomed but they did indeed raise the profile of pro-boxing.
Such tactics may just work for Rover. IMHO, the professional motoring commentators have for several decades now far too often bad-mouthed any Rover product that comes their way including some of the better ones simply because it was ... a Rover. This has rubbed off on many car buyers on the basis "If the professionals say so, then it must be right". Thus, coming from such a lowly already "cheapened" standing in the meantime, such apparently brand cheapening tactics (if that is what is generally believed - not by me) could only go in one direction if they move at all.
To be fair though, there does appear to be a change of mindset with much of the motoring media in its various forms, and MG-Rs products appear to get a fairer appraisal of late. Previously, from their writings on then ARG products, they were so completely against my own personal direct observations and experiences that I got the impression that they wrote that 'mindset' stuff without actually driving the cars.
On the subject of recent MG-R product appraisals; Auto Express's recent two page item on the CityRover is a good example which for this particular 'true brit' enthusiast, makes a refreshing change.
09 September 2003, 06:02 PM
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quote: "they were so completely against my own personal direct observations and experiences that I got the impression that they wrote that 'mindset' stuff without actually driving the cars"
Of course you know much more than a legion of motoring journalists and the vast majority of purchasers of those vehicles. Or perhaps they got bad reviews because they produced crap products. Which do you think is the more likely scenario: one mad old Rover enthusiast being right or the rest of the world. To use an irritating Americanism, go figure!
Of course you know much more than a legion of motoring journalists and the vast majority of purchasers of those vehicles. Or perhaps they got bad reviews because they produced crap products. Which do you think is the more likely scenario: one mad old Rover enthusiast being right or the rest of the world. To use an irritating Americanism, go figure!
09 September 2003, 06:06 PM
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Just thought I'd better clarify my comments there before the old fart start gobbing off as usual.
My comments about unhappy owners refer to the "old skool" rovers rather than the new products like the 75 which do rather well.
My comments about unhappy owners refer to the "old skool" rovers rather than the new products like the 75 which do rather well.
09 September 2003, 09:09 PM
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NACRO,
Your determined failure to see any merit in my postings and your incessant negativity makes me think you would make an ideal anti-brit motoring journalist.....
You can complete the scenario with the ever extended mit for the back handers, perks,advertising revenues and other crooked ploys which plays a much larger part in the process than is generally appreciated by such as yourself. You clueless young fart!.
AND here's Americanism for you: GET REAL! These people have their paymasters to accomodate and don't want their opportunities to drive the latest wot not denied them if they don't shape up! Doesn't happen..... GET REAL!!
For numerous reasons, over the years, BMC, BL, ARG and more recently MG-R have been very poor where back-handers are concerned...
Given their continuing lack of resources, no doubt still are. One can only assume that the increasing number of better recent reviews of MG-R product is simply down to the merit of same and not as a result of some other consideration. No doubt your narrowly focussed lack of width in your vision means you see things differently.
I once phoned the editor of a magazine to query why he had dismissed one product in preference to another. Just before we ended, he began to lose his cool and admitted that his advertising revenue sources HAVE to play a part in their product comparisons. No doubt you find that unbelievable.
Ever asked yourself why every other TV movie from the good old USA and elsewhere has the leading crook or hero ALWAYS driving a Merc or BMW ..... no more verbal diagrams .... I should have followed my initial instinctive impressions of you. You're a bigot and a waste of time ......
Your determined failure to see any merit in my postings and your incessant negativity makes me think you would make an ideal anti-brit motoring journalist.....
You can complete the scenario with the ever extended mit for the back handers, perks,advertising revenues and other crooked ploys which plays a much larger part in the process than is generally appreciated by such as yourself. You clueless young fart!.AND here's Americanism for you: GET REAL! These people have their paymasters to accomodate and don't want their opportunities to drive the latest wot not denied them if they don't shape up! Doesn't happen..... GET REAL!!
For numerous reasons, over the years, BMC, BL, ARG and more recently MG-R have been very poor where back-handers are concerned...
Given their continuing lack of resources, no doubt still are. One can only assume that the increasing number of better recent reviews of MG-R product is simply down to the merit of same and not as a result of some other consideration. No doubt your narrowly focussed lack of width in your vision means you see things differently. I once phoned the editor of a magazine to query why he had dismissed one product in preference to another. Just before we ended, he began to lose his cool and admitted that his advertising revenue sources HAVE to play a part in their product comparisons. No doubt you find that unbelievable.
Ever asked yourself why every other TV movie from the good old USA and elsewhere has the leading crook or hero ALWAYS driving a Merc or BMW ..... no more verbal diagrams .... I should have followed my initial instinctive impressions of you. You're a bigot and a waste of time ......
09 September 2003, 09:45 PM
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"Such tactics may just work for Rover. IMHO, the professional motoring commentators have for several decades now far too often bad-mouthed any Rover product that comes their way including some of the better ones simply because it was ... a Rover. This has rubbed off on many car buyers on the basis "If the professionals say so, then it must be right". Thus, coming from such a lowly already "cheapened" standing in the meantime, such apparently brand cheapening tactics (if that is what is generally believed - not by me) could only go in one direction if they move at all."
You make a fair point, Rover bashing became trendy a few years back. Maybe my views on the ad-camapign are a little biased seeing as I have a BM. ;-)
An interesting point about the back handers. It DOES happen a lot with journos, and it stinks! I suspect Clarkhole is among the worst!
Going back to the thread title, there was an article about the Streetwise in Autocar. The journo randomly asked some early-20 year olds about the styling while out in the car, and opinions were favourable.
Perhaps its one of those you have to see in the metal?
You make a fair point, Rover bashing became trendy a few years back. Maybe my views on the ad-camapign are a little biased seeing as I have a BM. ;-)
An interesting point about the back handers. It DOES happen a lot with journos, and it stinks! I suspect Clarkhole is among the worst!
Going back to the thread title, there was an article about the Streetwise in Autocar. The journo randomly asked some early-20 year olds about the styling while out in the car, and opinions were favourable.
Perhaps its one of those you have to see in the metal?
09 September 2003, 10:14 PM
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quote: "AND here's Americanism for you: GET REAL! These people have their paymasters to accomodate and don't want their opportunities to drive the latest wot not denied them if they don't shape up! Doesn't happen..... GET REAL!!
For numerous reasons, over the years, BMC, BL, ARG and more recently MG-R have been very poor where back-handers are concerned"
LOL It's a conspiracy theory now is it? You sound desperate and more than a little pathetic.
For numerous reasons, over the years, BMC, BL, ARG and more recently MG-R have been very poor where back-handers are concerned"
LOL It's a conspiracy theory now is it? You sound desperate and more than a little pathetic.
09 September 2003, 10:52 PM
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It does make you wonder though...
Hypothetical situation:
A car manufacturer invites you, as a motoring journalist, over to Italy in the summer... say the Amalfi Coast. Very pretty, good for photos, twisty roads... Puts you up in a top hotel for a few nights, all expenses paid, and also asks you to test drive their new car, and hence review it, for the magazine you work for.
After having such a great time over there, and knowing full well that a favourable review of the new car puts you in line for the next car launch, you'd be very tempted to hold back on the negative comments, and concentrate on the finer points of the car.
Whereas a company such as MG-Rover, may not wish to, or more likely cannot justify the expense of such an excursion, may hold their testing day at a UK test track... with maybe a night in a B&B thrown in, for those who have travelled from afar.
You're not really going to miss out on much, for the next car launch, if you decide to be honest in this review. Perhaps you'll be off somewhere in the Algarve for the next test drive for the other manufacturer, while one of your colleagues draws the short straw for the next MG Rover launch at Longbridge...
Hypothetical situation:
A car manufacturer invites you, as a motoring journalist, over to Italy in the summer... say the Amalfi Coast. Very pretty, good for photos, twisty roads... Puts you up in a top hotel for a few nights, all expenses paid, and also asks you to test drive their new car, and hence review it, for the magazine you work for.
After having such a great time over there, and knowing full well that a favourable review of the new car puts you in line for the next car launch, you'd be very tempted to hold back on the negative comments, and concentrate on the finer points of the car.
Whereas a company such as MG-Rover, may not wish to, or more likely cannot justify the expense of such an excursion, may hold their testing day at a UK test track... with maybe a night in a B&B thrown in, for those who have travelled from afar.
You're not really going to miss out on much, for the next car launch, if you decide to be honest in this review. Perhaps you'll be off somewhere in the Algarve for the next test drive for the other manufacturer, while one of your colleagues draws the short straw for the next MG Rover launch at Longbridge...
10 September 2003, 05:55 AM
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Obviously there is some "corruption" in motoring journalism, a recent report in the Eye confirms that inducements to top level hacks do happen. However there are plenty of car manufacturers who won't or can't offer those perks and still get good reviews. Why?
Looking at the other side of it bunging a few Breitling watches at some journos and paying for them to stay somewhere nice for a night or two is hardly bank breaking stuff for a major car manufacturer. Consider MG Rovers limited product range, lack of new cars (how long have they been flogging the 200+400?)and you could come to the conclusion that Rover/MG Rovers lack of success in wooing the press is ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ROVER FAILURE.
Looking at the other side of it bunging a few Breitling watches at some journos and paying for them to stay somewhere nice for a night or two is hardly bank breaking stuff for a major car manufacturer. Consider MG Rovers limited product range, lack of new cars (how long have they been flogging the 200+400?)and you could come to the conclusion that Rover/MG Rovers lack of success in wooing the press is ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ROVER FAILURE.
10 September 2003, 09:01 AM
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"Looking at the other side of it bunging a few Breitling watches at some journos and paying for them to stay somewhere nice for a night or two is hardly bank breaking stuff for a major car manufacturer. "
I see where you are coming from, but I guess these things are really expensive when the PR company and the chateaux are hired, throw in the 5* meal for 50 people, eye-wateringly expensive wine list... I can see this being insignificant for high volume model runs, but given the number of units they are anticipating selling of say the 25SW it becomes expensive.
HOWEVER, Rover do still manage to provide large salary increases to Towers and his mates on the board, not good press for a cash strapped company laying off workers.
I see where you are coming from, but I guess these things are really expensive when the PR company and the chateaux are hired, throw in the 5* meal for 50 people, eye-wateringly expensive wine list... I can see this being insignificant for high volume model runs, but given the number of units they are anticipating selling of say the 25SW it becomes expensive.
HOWEVER, Rover do still manage to provide large salary increases to Towers and his mates on the board, not good press for a cash strapped company laying off workers.
10 September 2003, 09:31 AM
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The people at the top in MG Rover are scum, they are feeding of the blood of the terminally ill company, grabbing whatever they can and will leave the company in disgrace clutching big payoffs and fat pensions. Meanwhile the hapless workers (who incidentally I DO feel sorry for) will be left with nothing except bad memories.
MG Rover is going to fail for the simple reason that it produces mostly BAD cars.
MG Rover is going to fail for the simple reason that it produces mostly BAD cars.
10 September 2003, 09:37 AM
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In the article for the Streetwise in Auto Express mag, it states that
According to figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMTT), the 25-based MG ZR has just replaced the Citroen Saxo VTR as Britain's top-selling hot hatch
An example of a MG-ROVER SUCCESS.
The review is positive in general about the Streetwise, but as everyone knows, it is based on the aged 25, and fails to shake off its inherent design flaws.
According to figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMTT), the 25-based MG ZR has just replaced the Citroen Saxo VTR as Britain's top-selling hot hatch
An example of a MG-ROVER SUCCESS.
The review is positive in general about the Streetwise, but as everyone knows, it is based on the aged 25, and fails to shake off its inherent design flaws.
10 September 2003, 09:58 AM
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Something some more dimwitted contibutors to the thread fail to have acknowledged is that I'm all in favour of MG Rover doing well and producing good products. It's just that in the main they don't and have a track record of producing dross.
Congratulations to them on the success of the ZR- it's meant to be a good drive and despite being based on an ancient platform has obviously managed to displace the previous budget warm hatchback the VTR. It's hardly going to save the company though is it?
Congratulations to them on the success of the ZR- it's meant to be a good drive and despite being based on an ancient platform has obviously managed to displace the previous budget warm hatchback the VTR. It's hardly going to save the company though is it?
10 September 2003, 10:22 AM
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lol top work- especially the getting shafted by johnny foreigner stuff- classic British xenophobia.
10 September 2003, 10:35 AM
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Just as a matter of interest Nacro, is there anything about Britain, or being British that you actually like? I'm not being spiteful - I'm just interested.
And, I can see that you are in favour of MG-Rover succeeding, it's just the negative way you choose to discuss the company, gives the wrong impression to people.
The only way the company will succeed is to produce better quality products. The 75 is one such car, which consistently does well in the JD Power surveys. A lot hinges on the success of the CityRover. And I'm sure all eyes will be on the replacement for the 45.
As for the Fat Cats at Rover getting rises - same everywhere in business. Always the workers who suffer. Mind you, I don't feel sorry for Rover workers, because I know they could improve the quality of their products, by putting in more effort. It's a well known fact that cars built on a Friday are likely to have more problems with them than those built during the week.
And, I can see that you are in favour of MG-Rover succeeding, it's just the negative way you choose to discuss the company, gives the wrong impression to people.
The only way the company will succeed is to produce better quality products. The 75 is one such car, which consistently does well in the JD Power surveys. A lot hinges on the success of the CityRover. And I'm sure all eyes will be on the replacement for the 45.
As for the Fat Cats at Rover getting rises - same everywhere in business. Always the workers who suffer. Mind you, I don't feel sorry for Rover workers, because I know they could improve the quality of their products, by putting in more effort. It's a well known fact that cars built on a Friday are likely to have more problems with them than those built during the week.
10 September 2003, 10:38 AM
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And whilst we're at it, what about people in authority? That's the third time now (that i've seen) that you've described people in management as scum.
10 September 2003, 12:45 PM
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Scum rises to the top telboy, everyone knows that, better to stay simmering just under the surface lol- fancy you turning up here! Anyone would think it was a thread about low rent ****holes in Essex.
10 September 2003, 01:03 PM
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Duck Pond
The MG ZR may or may not be a success in sales terms, but unfortunately every car produced costs money.
MG are not making profit or anything close to it, and without this they will wither on the vine and die. As it is the 25 is probably three years past replacement date, and for it to soldier on for another few years is to expect a lot.
Simple truth is that the 75 (or variants) are the only cars which compete, and they're not good enough to make me want to take on a car with significantly worse depreciateion than others in its class. Essentially, it's a Mondeo/Vectra rather than a 3-series competitor, and unlike, say an Alfa, it has no USP.
It's not sporty enough as a 75 (and not fast enough as an MG) to compete dynamically. A pity; I'd happily support them, butn they have to have product good enough to make the market really want it. Simply flying the flag and berating us for buying a BMW is not enough - the 3-series is where it is becaise of quality, pure and simple. With a sustained period of high-quality products comes high residuals, which then becomes a self-fulfilling virtuous spiral.
Given the state of Ford - massive money loser in Europe despite a lot of fresh/good product - I can't help but think that the bell is tolling for cash-strapped Rover, and has been for some time.
The MG ZR may or may not be a success in sales terms, but unfortunately every car produced costs money.
MG are not making profit or anything close to it, and without this they will wither on the vine and die. As it is the 25 is probably three years past replacement date, and for it to soldier on for another few years is to expect a lot.
Simple truth is that the 75 (or variants) are the only cars which compete, and they're not good enough to make me want to take on a car with significantly worse depreciateion than others in its class. Essentially, it's a Mondeo/Vectra rather than a 3-series competitor, and unlike, say an Alfa, it has no USP.
It's not sporty enough as a 75 (and not fast enough as an MG) to compete dynamically. A pity; I'd happily support them, butn they have to have product good enough to make the market really want it. Simply flying the flag and berating us for buying a BMW is not enough - the 3-series is where it is becaise of quality, pure and simple. With a sustained period of high-quality products comes high residuals, which then becomes a self-fulfilling virtuous spiral.
Given the state of Ford - massive money loser in Europe despite a lot of fresh/good product - I can't help but think that the bell is tolling for cash-strapped Rover, and has been for some time.
10 September 2003, 03:07 PM
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Anyway to answer the question:
As for liking anything about being "British" that isn't a nationality I identify with. In answer to the question "is there anything I like about being an Englishman?" Then yes, there are many great things about being English.
As for liking anything about being "British" that isn't a nationality I identify with. In answer to the question "is there anything I like about being an Englishman?" Then yes, there are many great things about being English.
10 September 2003, 09:52 PM
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I'm one of the few people on here who seems to have an Impreza Turbo, odd with it being scoobynet and all. We also have a Golf GTi and are thinking of getting a Skoda VRS soon if we can find the right deal.
11 September 2003, 12:22 AM
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Well I started this thread as a lighthearted dig at rover, never dreamt it would get to 9 pages .
I was speaking to a friend of mine the other day who is 68 and is brand loyal to rovers - he likes them "because they are comfortable and easy to drive" ... fair enough at his age. He was showing me his car because he was interested in my Honda S2000. Why? Because his current rover (think it was an 827?) has a honda engine in it, and he chose it "because i had so much trouble with the last two".
Says it all...
Back to the StreetWise...MgJohn you can drivel on all you like (and don't patronise me about my age or driving experience, especially when you don't know it), the SW is a feeble and frankly laughable attempt to breathe life in a car well past its sell by date. Interestingly the dealer where I saw it has removed it from the forecourt.
.I was speaking to a friend of mine the other day who is 68 and is brand loyal to rovers - he likes them "because they are comfortable and easy to drive" ... fair enough at his age. He was showing me his car because he was interested in my Honda S2000. Why? Because his current rover (think it was an 827?) has a honda engine in it, and he chose it "because i had so much trouble with the last two".
Says it all...
Back to the StreetWise...MgJohn you can drivel on all you like (and don't patronise me about my age or driving experience, especially when you don't know it), the SW is a feeble and frankly laughable attempt to breathe life in a car well past its sell by date. Interestingly the dealer where I saw it has removed it from the forecourt.
11 September 2003, 07:51 AM
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Location: Your home is worthless.You can't afford to run your car.Your job is on the line.Schadenfreude rules.
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quote: "I was speaking to a friend of mine the other day who is 68 and is brand loyal to rovers - he likes them "because they are comfortable and easy to drive" ."
says it all really...........a dying company........with a dying demographic of old folk..........
says it all really...........a dying company........with a dying demographic of old folk..........