Is it all over for Imprezas?
14 August 2003, 09:49 AM
#33
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Why do people always try to compare the Impreza to cars like the 350Z? One is a coupe, designed to look futuristic and stylish, the other is a born and bred rally car, whose design is functional, not pretty.
As for asking if the Impreza has "had its day", then you have to say "yes", but it's "day" was the majority of the Nineties, where it became iconic for performance. Whether it retains this mantle for this decade remains to be seen.
From the initial reports of the 350Z, it is going to struggle against the other cars in its class, like the TT and new Mazda.
If the responses on this forum are blinkered, what do you expect? It's called "Scoobynet" FFS.
As for asking if the Impreza has "had its day", then you have to say "yes", but it's "day" was the majority of the Nineties, where it became iconic for performance. Whether it retains this mantle for this decade remains to be seen.
From the initial reports of the 350Z, it is going to struggle against the other cars in its class, like the TT and new Mazda.
If the responses on this forum are blinkered, what do you expect? It's called "Scoobynet" FFS.
14 August 2003, 09:57 AM
#34
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Come on guys, the Scooby is getting a tough time from the opposition e.g. RS, Nissan, Evo, R32 etc.
Don't get me wrong, its a fantastic car, but not quite the icon it was - due to the rise of the opposition. Just look at the depreciation, which effectively measures car's desirability, given supply levels etc.
Just a couple of observations:
-I have never met a girl that likes the look of a Scooby/Evo, or comments on the exhaust noise etc! Not saying there are none, but they are few and far between.
-More often than not, the journos pick the opposition as the winner in a group test. OK point taken on Clarkson, but he is not really known for consistency - look at the Alfa/R32 review.
-The image they have is of a boy racer with the baseball cap worn backwards, hence the admiring looks from spooty teenagers!
-Performance bargain the scoob is, looker it is certainly not!
Just to finish off - I would like to stress I do like the Scoobs, so don't take offence. I am just pointing out an 'outsiders' point of view - not saying I am correct!
I would pick a Scoob from the opposition, but I just don't agree about the points regarding chicks and looks etc...
Don't get me wrong, its a fantastic car, but not quite the icon it was - due to the rise of the opposition. Just look at the depreciation, which effectively measures car's desirability, given supply levels etc.
Just a couple of observations:
-I have never met a girl that likes the look of a Scooby/Evo, or comments on the exhaust noise etc! Not saying there are none, but they are few and far between.
-More often than not, the journos pick the opposition as the winner in a group test. OK point taken on Clarkson, but he is not really known for consistency - look at the Alfa/R32 review.
-The image they have is of a boy racer with the baseball cap worn backwards, hence the admiring looks from spooty teenagers!
-Performance bargain the scoob is, looker it is certainly not!
Just to finish off - I would like to stress I do like the Scoobs, so don't take offence. I am just pointing out an 'outsiders' point of view - not saying I am correct!
I would pick a Scoob from the opposition, but I just don't agree about the points regarding chicks and looks etc...
14 August 2003, 11:04 AM
#35
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does it really matter what others think of the car you drive? i thought these cars were all about the driving experience.... if you want the looks, get a haridressers car like the TT, which is a fivne car in all respects bar a communicative chassis... as goes for most other "competition" mentioned here. the R32 is a hot hatch, NOT a family sallon, the TT and 350Z are copues, NOT family saloons. the vectra, mondeo, 3 series, passats.... they are family saloons, and compared to them.... the scooby is a must, every time, no questions asked!
14 August 2003, 11:08 AM
#36
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I agree with Skittles comments above - an objective view!
I think the Impreza has had its day for other reasons - the cars simply haven't moved forward with the times.
When I bought my UK Turbo in 1998 it was incredibly fast and full of character and there was nothing like available for similar money - under £20k. At that price, the egg box interior and crummy paint quality could be forgiven.
My current STi7 has now cost me over £32k, having added PPP and a decent stereo, and the car's shortcomings are really starting to show because you can buy some pretty desirable cars in that price bracket.
At this level, I don't expect to have to excuse the low rent interior when friends who think I'm mad to have bought another one inspect it.
I don't expect to buy a new car and then have to spend another £2k just to make it perform like it should have done to begin with.
I don't expect to constantly have to nag my dealer because it has starting issues and hesitates all the time, only to be told that Subaru are aware of the problem and don't know how to fix it.
The same with the rear suspension - the car has now been in FOUR times to stop the knocking noise which has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere on the BBS - and it still hasn't been cured!
Then there's the insurance, servicing costs, fuel consumption......
I am now starting to realise that there's more to life than being able to go fast, because on our congested roads, its performance potential is rarely able to be used.
Flame suit fitted. BMW 330d here we come!!
[Edited by Chris D - 8/14/2003 11:09:44 AM]
I think the Impreza has had its day for other reasons - the cars simply haven't moved forward with the times.
When I bought my UK Turbo in 1998 it was incredibly fast and full of character and there was nothing like available for similar money - under £20k. At that price, the egg box interior and crummy paint quality could be forgiven.
My current STi7 has now cost me over £32k, having added PPP and a decent stereo, and the car's shortcomings are really starting to show because you can buy some pretty desirable cars in that price bracket.
At this level, I don't expect to have to excuse the low rent interior when friends who think I'm mad to have bought another one inspect it.
I don't expect to buy a new car and then have to spend another £2k just to make it perform like it should have done to begin with.
I don't expect to constantly have to nag my dealer because it has starting issues and hesitates all the time, only to be told that Subaru are aware of the problem and don't know how to fix it.
The same with the rear suspension - the car has now been in FOUR times to stop the knocking noise which has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere on the BBS - and it still hasn't been cured!
Then there's the insurance, servicing costs, fuel consumption......
I am now starting to realise that there's more to life than being able to go fast, because on our congested roads, its performance potential is rarely able to be used.
Flame suit fitted. BMW 330d here we come!!
[Edited by Chris D - 8/14/2003 11:09:44 AM]
14 August 2003, 11:15 AM
#37
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A street version of a Rally car will always become a classic. In my opinion common available street versions of Rally cars is the Lancia Delta integrale, Escort Crossi,Evo and the Scooby.
When I was living in France 99 to 01 they had some Classic Touring races, where only Classic cars, and comming classic cars where allowed. One of to morrows classic cars allowed was named, and the Scooby was one of them. Others was all Ferrari cars, Alfa Romeo SZ, etc.
No doubt a Scooby is something special.
Lars
When I was living in France 99 to 01 they had some Classic Touring races, where only Classic cars, and comming classic cars where allowed. One of to morrows classic cars allowed was named, and the Scooby was one of them. Others was all Ferrari cars, Alfa Romeo SZ, etc.
No doubt a Scooby is something special.
Lars
14 August 2003, 11:21 AM
#38
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As the performance gap lessens between the "hot hatches" and even the big "Uber saloons" the Impreza, on paper anyway, looks less and less impressive. A sub 6 sec. 0-60 in 1994 was the domain of very few cars, now most top of the line "sports" cars can prform this feat. Coupled with the price/depreciation thing, the scoob has become ordinary in the eyes of joe public.
To us here on Scoobynet, it will never be ordinary but that is because we know alot more about them, to us they will always be more than just a car.
A true enthusiast (IMHO) concentrates on the cars good points and learns how to politely defend it bad points (Interior, looks (To some people), noise etc)
It won't be long before cars that are "sexier", better equipt, dare i say it but faster and cheaper than a scoob are all over the place.
Even Subaru know this and as a result the next impreza is going to be a SUV
Just because times change though, doesn't mean that a make looses it's appeal, have you seen the size of the MG owners club or the Morris Minor contingent Crap cars by modern standards but icons to the enthusiasts, they don't care about what people think, they are busy enjoying themselves and so should we!
Many folk on scoobynet bang on about spoilers being too big, exhausts being too loud, fuel economy, tyre wear etc. To me those folk aren't enthusiasts, they are people who don't get the whole Impreza thing. I wanted a standard car, swore i'd leave it standard and then i became an enthusiast
Mikey
<sticking up for the Impreza and the enthusiast, the real ones>
To us here on Scoobynet, it will never be ordinary but that is because we know alot more about them, to us they will always be more than just a car.
A true enthusiast (IMHO) concentrates on the cars good points and learns how to politely defend it bad points (Interior, looks (To some people), noise etc)
It won't be long before cars that are "sexier", better equipt, dare i say it but faster and cheaper than a scoob are all over the place.
Even Subaru know this and as a result the next impreza is going to be a SUV
Just because times change though, doesn't mean that a make looses it's appeal, have you seen the size of the MG owners club or the Morris Minor contingent
Crap cars by modern standards but icons to the enthusiasts, they don't care about what people think, they are busy enjoying themselves and so should we!Many folk on scoobynet bang on about spoilers being too big, exhausts being too loud, fuel economy, tyre wear etc. To me those folk aren't enthusiasts, they are people who don't get the whole Impreza thing. I wanted a standard car, swore i'd leave it standard and then i became an enthusiast
Mikey
<sticking up for the Impreza and the enthusiast, the real ones>
14 August 2003, 11:21 AM
#39
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<Flame suit on>
Chris D - £32k on a Scooby?????? Are you mad? You could have got a 2nd hand 911 for that money! Or an M5!
I think Imprezas are great as budget performance cars, but that's where it ends.
Chris D - £32k on a Scooby?????? Are you mad? You could have got a 2nd hand 911 for that money! Or an M5!
I think Imprezas are great as budget performance cars, but that's where it ends.
14 August 2003, 11:26 AM
#40
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glad to see its as blinkered as ever on here
I think it was more along the lines of he could live with the scooby better day to day, but his comments on the Evo was its much more focused, and so much faster.
There is massive interbrand rivalry between Scoobies & Evo's which is all good fun but its also quite sad when people cannot accept that the Evo is just as good as (and a damn sight better IMHO) the impreza, & to compare a scoob to a skyline is a joke IMO, there is no comparison...
After having done the impreza thing, I cant see me ever going back, unless is a cheap project car (like silly cheap) as there is nothing the impreza can do as well as the Evo IMO, the only thing that appels is the noise, and anyone who buys are car for that reason is a bit sad lol.
& I definately wont go back to a disgrace like the bug eye or blob eye as they are nowhat this car is all about.
So in conclusion, yes its had its day (along with the Evo as well, although they are still seen as mental rally cars & always will do) they have lost the advantage of being far to over commercialised now, and trying to appeal to everyone
My next toy will be the biggest legend of them all imo, the R34 Nissan Skyline GTR
It's like Clarkson said on Top Gear when deciding between subaru or evo's, it would be subaru every time, but he didn't know why, it's just one of those things.
There is massive interbrand rivalry between Scoobies & Evo's which is all good fun but its also quite sad when people cannot accept that the Evo is just as good as (and a damn sight better IMHO) the impreza, & to compare a scoob to a skyline is a joke IMO, there is no comparison...
After having done the impreza thing, I cant see me ever going back, unless is a cheap project car (like silly cheap) as there is nothing the impreza can do as well as the Evo IMO, the only thing that appels is the noise, and anyone who buys are car for that reason is a bit sad lol.
& I definately wont go back to a disgrace like the bug eye or blob eye as they are nowhat this car is all about.
So in conclusion, yes its had its day (along with the Evo as well, although they are still seen as mental rally cars & always will do) they have lost the advantage of being far to over commercialised now, and trying to appeal to everyone
My next toy will be the biggest legend of them all imo, the R34 Nissan Skyline GTR
14 August 2003, 11:39 AM
#41
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Just my thoughts...
As a company car purchase, the 03 WRX now makes a lot of sense. Both the list price and emissions have dropped enough to cut the tax bill significantly. Not sure where else I could get a brand spanker UK 225ps motor with (up to) 300 mile range for less than £19000. Add in the PPP and big fun! EVO may be faster and corner flatter, but more money, 4500 mile service intervals and restricted range? No ta.
Bang for buck, there's just nothing to touch it at the moment.
As a company car purchase, the 03 WRX now makes a lot of sense. Both the list price and emissions have dropped enough to cut the tax bill significantly. Not sure where else I could get a brand spanker UK 225ps motor with (up to) 300 mile range for less than £19000. Add in the PPP and big fun! EVO may be faster and corner flatter, but more money, 4500 mile service intervals and restricted range? No ta.
Bang for buck, there's just nothing to touch it at the moment.
14 August 2003, 11:44 AM
#42
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Duck_Pond,
'£32k on a Scooby????? Are you mad?'
...............in retrospect, yes I probably WAS/AM mad!
The amounts sort of crept up starting with the purchase price of £27,495...
I won't be making a similar mistake again!!!
Chris
'£32k on a Scooby????? Are you mad?'
...............in retrospect, yes I probably WAS/AM mad!
The amounts sort of crept up starting with the purchase price of £27,495...
I won't be making a similar mistake again!!!
Chris
14 August 2003, 12:05 PM
#43
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C, what do you expect on a dedicated forum
yours is the most blinkered view of all, all your posts that Ive seen are basically cut and pasted forms of your post in this thread.
ha ha.
the evo was discarded by Clarkson et al, they did pick the scoob.
They discussed that the EVO was more expensive and half the money saved with buying a Scooby could turn it into a monster of a car, now admittedly we shouldnt have to do this, the car should come equipped to take on the main rival, but the cost difference more than makes up for it.
now how long do you think a bunch of scoob owners habitually posting on MLR about how the evo is second rate would last?
Peanuts....
yours is the most blinkered view of all, all your posts that Ive seen are basically cut and pasted forms of your post in this thread.
ha ha.
the evo was discarded by Clarkson et al, they did pick the scoob.
They discussed that the EVO was more expensive and half the money saved with buying a Scooby could turn it into a monster of a car, now admittedly we shouldnt have to do this, the car should come equipped to take on the main rival, but the cost difference more than makes up for it.
now how long do you think a bunch of scoob owners habitually posting on MLR about how the evo is second rate would last?
Peanuts....
14 August 2003, 12:09 PM
#44
I don't get it... why does everyone always go on about the impreza losing it's image and stating that as a reason to 'leave'?
I also see that there's this huge rivalry between classic owners and owners of newer models. Why is this? Is it because the newer ones cost more money, and hence classic drivers think that new drivers are flash gits? I'm pretty sure that the new one is faster around a track than an old one. Surely 3+ years of evolution must have done something, even if it does feel a bit softer and what have you?
My mate picked up a MY00 the same week I picked up my MY03. We are both really happy with our respective cars, and we are both happy for each other. Why can't we have this on a greater scale? We both bought the imprezas because they are *FUN TO DRIVE*, not because of the image.
IMNSHO, some people are overly concerned about image.. Grow up and have fun driving the cars you like, without critisizing others for their choices
14 August 2003, 12:26 PM
#45
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Preference is purely subjective/aesthetic for the most part. Few of us are skilled enough drivers to put all models through their paces and do a worthwhile a/b/c comparison, anyway. Most people who bitch in terms of performance one over the other are simply anoraks quoting TOP gear performance specs. I happen to like the classic shape best because its the one I fell in love with (especially later facelifted models). If you love your scoob, then to hell with everyone else!
14 August 2003, 01:06 PM
#47
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peanuts.
getting a little defensive arnt we
its a well proven fact that in standard trim, an evo is quicker! have god knows how many articles from magazines saying this, but the scoob is more "everyday".
I kind of expected a balanced view as its not just scooby owners who use this site, do you really believe the Scoob is all round a 'better'car than an Evo?
Do you believe its better than a Skyline?
I'll stick with my evo, safe in the knowledge that as its stands (before the new engine goes in) that its quicker than most scoobs, a damn sight better put together than both my old imprezas, has much better spec, can stop without needing a brake upgrade, and will be worth more than 50p in 6 months thanks to IM shafting the market with 'giveaway' cars
all IMHO opinion of course
[Edited by C - 8/14/2003 1:08:19 PM]
getting a little defensive arnt we
its a well proven fact that in standard trim, an evo is quicker! have god knows how many articles from magazines saying this, but the scoob is more "everyday".
I kind of expected a balanced view as its not just scooby owners who use this site, do you really believe the Scoob is all round a 'better'car than an Evo?
Do you believe its better than a Skyline?
I'll stick with my evo, safe in the knowledge that as its stands (before the new engine goes in) that its quicker than most scoobs, a damn sight better put together than both my old imprezas, has much better spec, can stop without needing a brake upgrade, and will be worth more than 50p in 6 months thanks to IM shafting the market with 'giveaway' cars
all IMHO opinion of course
[Edited by C - 8/14/2003 1:08:19 PM]
14 August 2003, 01:29 PM
#48
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Peanuts, in all fairness C has owned a Sti type R ad a P1, the two best ubarus they have made bar the 22b (and a few ex 22b owners i know prefered the p1 handling to theirs) So wih his previous cars in mind, id say he probably is prtty qualified o talkabout whether a subaru or evo is better.
I drive a scooby atm and am quite happy with it.... gonna mod that up a bit then perhaps upgrade to a type r, but like chri i wouldnt g near the bugeye, id upgrade again to the Evo, which having driven both i think is an all round better car. Faster, handles better and is so much better built. ont get me wrong, my scooby i like, but its like omparing a citroen to an audi as far as build quaity goes.
I drive a scooby atm and am quite happy with it.... gonna mod that up a bit then perhaps upgrade to a type r, but like chri i wouldnt g near the bugeye, id upgrade again to the Evo, which having driven both i think is an all round better car. Faster, handles better and is so much better built. ont get me wrong, my scooby i like, but its like omparing a citroen to an audi as far as build quaity goes.
14 August 2003, 01:56 PM
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Chill Winstons!
The Evo and Impreza are from the same background...They're basically jap tins! But what makes them stand out, and moreso the Impreza (as its cheaper), is they way they can p1ss all over expensive european make cars, especially on typical british b-roads in wet weather.
Does a Boxster owner smile in appreciation when you smoke him from the lights?
Does the CLK driver give you a scooby-wave when when you leave him for dead in the twisties (in fact this applies to many other cars)?
From experience, I have never got any smiles or waves from these people with cars 5x the value of mine! Made me laugh no end!
I'm just waiting to be humbled by that NOS Nova now!
The Evo and Impreza are from the same background...They're basically jap tins! But what makes them stand out, and moreso the Impreza (as its cheaper), is they way they can p1ss all over expensive european make cars, especially on typical british b-roads in wet weather.
Does a Boxster owner smile in appreciation when you smoke him from the lights?
Does the CLK driver give you a scooby-wave when when you leave him for dead in the twisties (in fact this applies to many other cars)?
From experience, I have never got any smiles or waves from these people with cars 5x the value of mine! Made me laugh no end!
I'm just waiting to be humbled by that NOS Nova now!
14 August 2003, 04:34 PM
#54
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its a well proven fact that in standard trim, an evo is quicker! have god knows how many articles from magazines saying this, but the scoob is more "everyday".
2 words Personal preference!
14 August 2003, 04:41 PM
#55
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C,
not bothered what you`ve owned, didnt once mention whats best, didnt compare the evo or the skyline, all I did was point out that that your posts are (of the recent ones Ive seen) all the same old tat.. nothing more nothing less
Then questioned how long a scooby driver would last continually putting evo`s down on the MLR.
defensive, as may be, but the over-exaggerated shyte at the end of your post maybe says more about you than you realise, or maybe not..
after commenting about the new engine going in.
Andy.....
not bothered what you`ve owned, didnt once mention whats best, didnt compare the evo or the skyline, all I did was point out that that your posts are (of the recent ones Ive seen) all the same old tat.. nothing more nothing less
Then questioned how long a scooby driver would last continually putting evo`s down on the MLR.
defensive, as may be, but the over-exaggerated shyte at the end of your post maybe says more about you than you realise, or maybe not..
after commenting about the new engine going in.
Andy.....
14 August 2003, 05:06 PM
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You're right Urban, and if it's not that it's the 'I thrashed a Ferrari 360/355/550' or 'I beat Porsche 911 away from the lights' kind of posts which I suppose gives an indication of the sort of people driving Imprezas these days.
One good reason why perhaps it IS all over for Imprezas (and any other Jap pseudo-rally cars).
One good reason why perhaps it IS all over for Imprezas (and any other Jap pseudo-rally cars).
14 August 2003, 05:12 PM
#59
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take a look in the projects forum on here if its "over exaggerated shyte" as you put it
some well respected 'teccies' from this site seems to think it will give the Norris Evo a hard time....
Hardly "over exaggerted shyte" in my book.
lol anyway you dont know me from toffee so what if I put an impreza down, I dont think its the car it used to be, it doesnt have the image it used to have etc. Im just stating facts here.
If you are refering to my posts about people expecting "over inflated" Px prices I have been proven time & time again to be right so where is the problem there? Ok i may not say it in a nicey nicey way, but you cannot argue my points...
some well respected 'teccies' from this site seems to think it will give the Norris Evo a hard time....
Hardly "over exaggerted shyte" in my book.
lol anyway you dont know me from toffee so what if I put an impreza down, I dont think its the car it used to be, it doesnt have the image it used to have etc. Im just stating facts here.
If you are refering to my posts about people expecting "over inflated" Px prices I have been proven time & time again to be right so where is the problem there? Ok i may not say it in a nicey nicey way, but you cannot argue my points...