sg72

darkblueturbo.

Inpired me!

I started off like you, just 4 months ago.

When I had to have an engine/turbo change.

It' threads like this that can put you into that upward spiral.

Maybe that should be downward spiral. LOL!

Anyone wanna buy a house?

tweenierob

Could be a very good buy for someone....
TD05 for sale £400

Rob

WREXY

Darkblueturbo,

The VF24, and VF28 are the same turbo. The VF29 is the same as well but has a different location for the pressure hose on the wastegate actuator. So anyone of these three you buy, and that's if you buy, should yield the same performance.

Cheers,

George.


[Edited by WREXY - 8/21/2003 8:55:57 PM]

M0NEY

THis topic is probably been one of the best topics ever. Very interesting stuff

Nice one DBT

nom

3 port solenoid offers greater boost control - it removes the vagueness that the 2-port can have. Good bit of kit, especially if you're upping boost/turbo size.

AlanG

nom

Don't see your post as drivel but have come up with a very good point and surprised no-one has latched on to this thought or at least appear to have disregarded it.

Different headers will indeed change the characteristics of the engine and power outputs, same as applies to NA engines. Only difference between NA and forced induction is the volume of charge which can be placed in the combustion chamber.

Harvey (will remove if requested)
If i can use your car as an example to demonstrate how it's the whole package which matters, Harvey's car produced just shy of 380BHP on 19psi (1.3bar)boost pressure using a VF28 turbo , however to achieve that figure, other components were matched to suit. It's not one item giving the target horsepower.These figures are backed up by rolling road graphs to confirm.

darkblueturbo

Basically...you have a target in what you want to achieve.
Now what you want to do is look at other cars with the same results you want to achieve and try and glean as much information from the owners of such cars to make a decision on A, how the car drives, B, what items are needed and C, how much those items are going to cost.

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 8/22/2003 12:51:46 AM]

carlos_hiraoka

Alan what type(4-2-1/4-1) and brand of headers are u using ?

Carlos H.

AlanG

Hi Carlos

I use the Gruppe-S with their up-pipe which for some reason, some don't like.

Alan

AlanG

Which is a 4-1 header.

Alan

carlos_hiraoka

Alan, everyone seems to be impressed with the results with the gruppe-s units but did u manage to correct the exhaust leak problems ..... and is the gruppe-s uppipe slip jointed ?

Carlos H.

AlanG

I have cured the leakage problems on mine and is pretty obvious what you have to do if you think about it.

The up-pipe on mine is non slip jointed but i believe you can purchase a flexi up-pipe with the headers. (Not much more expensive)

Alan

David_Wallis

Alan.. would you mind mailing me the fix you did???

I havent fitted any but have a feeling it wont be long.. and you say its and easy one

carlos_hiraoka

this is a nice exhaust manifold (4-2-1) and turbo



Carlos H.

AlanG

Even nicer exhaust housing on the turbo where the wastegate gasses don't interupt the flow of gasses out of the exhaust turbine.

Alan

darkblueturbo

That makes it less confusing then!! So a VF24, is the same Turbo used on the P1 and the STi, it's just got a different name

and stop posting pictures of shiny manifolds - you're tempting me...!

with these gruppe-s jobbies do you lose the legendary boxer beat? If you do then it's not worth the extra power in my book. Call me a tart if you like, but nothing else sounds like a scoob and I don't want to lose that. Might as well buy an Evo if I'm gonna do that (shock horror! Tis a joke, I wouldn't dare!)

AlanG

darkblueturbo

You don't lose the boxer beat with the Gruppe-S headers. They are un-equal length.

Alan

5 Type R

Havent seen much talk on here of the VF22 , and if my memory serves me right , this is the turbo that a majority on Group N competative cars use??????

The original post was to get around 300-350 and now DBM has said maybe just 300 then is this not a good package to get the best of lower down gains?

EvilBevel

VF22 is generally considered the laggier member of the VF2x series. Also quite a few reports of premature failure. Has the biggest combination of compressor/turbine of the VF2x range, so potentially biggest power.

darkblueturbo

Alan G said Excellent... maybe I will be doing the manifold at some point then

5 Type R - I want usuable on the road power and I've always heard that the VF22 was a stonking great big laggy top end power monster, as EvelBevel said. If I wanted to extract as much power as possible from the engine, I'd be going for one - but I want to be sensible and get lots of boost and torque as early as possible.

nom

The VF22 compressor wheel also has a knack of stretching & flying apart in little bits. Not very helpful

5 Type R

If they are so unreliable how come the group n rally boys use them as the weapon of choice?

Also I thought the 22 was more focused on the lower down power (it being a small VF etc) rather than the bigger TDs etc?

I know that the 22 is one of the biggest( if not the biggest VF) but even then I thought that they were far from being tailored for the big power boys??

Is this all wrong? Not professing to know only stuff that I had always believed to be true?

5 Type R

Just went back and read a few earlier posts and indeed there are a few posts saying that the VF22 is unreliable and laggy?

Very confused,

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

you loose the boxer beat with the hks headers as well, but you gain the sound back again by fitting one of Pat's Custom Exhaust systems...

darkblueturbo

5 type R - I don't know enough about Turbo's to help (which is why I started this thread!) but I always assumed that with the biggest compressor wheel it was the most laggy turbo focused mostly on the top end.

As for longterm reliability I wouldn't know, but I'd have thought that in the search for ultimate power the rally boys would be happy to rebuild parts on a regular basis...???

nom

Quite right with the re-build types - there's no problem with a turbo that stretches over a couple of thousand miles if it only needs to be driven 500! Not so good for the rest of us, though...

Lag & stuff vastly over-simplified, but...
Lag & compressor wheel size don't really go together. Compressor wheel choice is very fussy to the application, turbine wheel less so. A large turbine housing is going to be less of a restriction to exhaust flow (so off-boost reponse will be better), but typically the wheel will spin up higher volume flows (rpm). Bigger exhaust housing stuff = better top end.
Oversize the compressor & you'll tend to get surge. Undersize it & it won't flow well at the top end. It's possible to have a very efficient compressor over a very small flow - good power but not an easy one to drive - or a less efficient one with a better spread - better to drive, but less power overall.
Obviously the two ends need to be matched properly!

This is where hybrids are good - the TD05, VF22,23, etc. are designed as a 'general' turbo, ie for many different ones & compromise on the design so as to cope with different engine sizes, etc. therefore different flow characteristics. A hybrid is parts of various turbos picked out for a specific engine/flow, and therefore can potentially fit the solution much better. And also make things much more confusing to the potential purchaser
Someone who actually understands these things properly may want to correct that little lot .

Anyway, what was the question?

darkblueturbo

so who's the best person to speak to to take a look at my car and help me decide what I need to build a Hybrid Turbo all of my own...? Setup perfect for my car and my driving style (I probably won't do this, but would be nice to know...)

EvilBevel

GrpN is often misunderstood... the choices you have there are very limited, depending on regulations/homologation that try to keep them as close as possible to standard cars.

Apart from that, they don't have to run the cars 24/7, but can/will do turbo-revisions every now & then (between each rally if they have the budget). Rally cars also don't typically spend much time under 2500 RPM/vacuum, whereas roadcars do.

We also should make a difference between lag and boost treshold BTW, not the same thing.

The VF23 IMHO has been a good "compromise" turbo for a long time, but has now clearly been surpassed by the VF35. (only talking IHI turbos here)

AlanG

And i have the photos showing the results when that happens....

My VF22 lasted approximately 18 months of road use, then grenaded itself after 8 laps of track use.

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 8/22/2003 6:17:36 PM]

EvilBevel

Sorry for the late reply, but Scoobynet had a hickup an hour ago So posted something that nom already said.

"Best"... very difficult. It's a hit & miss thing to be honest. You have to chose your "tuner" very carefully, and ultimately you may decide to not use one at all, but to follow your own instincts.

You know this already... but tuning is "matching bits". Some headers are completly cr*p with some turbos, but work very well on others. You want torque... can your clutch/gearbox cope ?

Subaru tuning is still very small, and to be totally honest, you'd find more information right now on the US bulletin boards than you would here. Sure, their "horses" are to be taken with a grain of salt (kingsize grains), but they will try *anything* (including putting a VF12 on a lawnmower etc ) and report about it.

That's not a dig at the UK tuners, at all. MarkA, BobR, AndyF, Pat (he's absent here ), some others, are very competent people, each with their own approach, experiences, preferences etc... There is no right or wrong here, and the better *you* can explain "I want a turbo that spools up at xxxx RPM, has a strong midrange, doesn't get out of breath at yyyy RPM, but I also want it to work with the standard gearbox/clutch/my budget/100.000 miles) the better people on here (or your "tuner" if you choose one) can answer your questions/propose a combination of setups.

As nom said... but your question was

I really think a VF35 right now is (even if it wouldn't be the best ?) a good bet (and no, I fortunately don't sell these things !) That's a personal opinion, not cast in stone.

5 Type R

Cheers for the comments EB & Nom

OK so lets take my Type R as an example......

Unichip
Water Inj
H&S DP
Nur Spec R
K&N Panel
1.4 peak / 1.1 held.

300-310 (235-250@wheels) and 290-310lbft

What turbo would be best fitted in addition to a FMIC to provide better mid ranger power. i.e car is not really pushed above 6-6500rpm?
Want to control the intake better when car is being pushed and would like to perhaps run less boost to achieve my goals?