Andy.F

Mark

I mean 'are you getting' that ET's do not relate too well to power output, where as terminals do.
I will send you a link to the calculator I have found to apply best to manual (syncro) cars.

Andy

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I wonder who will be first to build a computer controlled auto-box specifically for dragging, in the UK

Might be more motivation if there were more events

Rannoch

R19KET

Andy,

Yes I understand that thanks. However, There is enough data available to give a pretty close estimate for ET's, Traps, and power. Nitrous powered cars aside, because they REALLY distort the ET to terminals.

Then you have front, rear, and AWD to take into account, but on the whole, cars of a similar type/power, give similar results, subject to 60' times, gear change ability, and a consistant drag strip. Think I'm the one who needs an auto !!

IIRC, and I don't know if you were serious, or joking, but you said Crail was down hill ? If this was true, would it explain why there is only a .2 second difference between your 350bhp times, and your 440bhp ++++ times ?

Mark.

Andy.F

Crail used to be slightly downhill until they moved the startline back some 70 mtrs. Now it's just the braking zone that's downhill
I really don't think I have much more than 440 now, certainly not on such a hot day as we had at totb2 although I may have had more than 350 last year ?? Star RR had a very long run time and tended to overheat TMIC cars. This 'could' have given a low reading.

Wasn't this thread about turbo's ??

Andy

5 Type R

OK a couple of questions.

What turbo should I be looking for to replace a standard STI 5 Type R?

Car currently running a genuine 300-310bhp and circ 300lbft, with 1.45 peak and holds 1.1-1.2

Would like to get it up to 340-350 without having to push too much boost through it?

carlos_hiraoka

Problem is that if you want 350hp with low-ish boost, then the "usual" front entry TD05 might not be your best choice, since it can definetly produce the 350 but not at 1.2 bar .....

Also you would need at least some sort of xtra cooling, by this I mean a FMIC, or at least an uprated TMIC.

Carlos H.

Andy.F

The TD05 front entry will make 350bhp on circa 1.3 bar boost with the correct supporting mods.
John Banks has some interesting data logs comparing various turbo's, it may be worth dropping him an email

Andy

AndrewC

Andy,

What do you consider "correct supporting mods"?

Andrew...

5 Type R

Would I need an FMIC?
I run a dual pump Water Injection system at present to aid with det etc

carlos_hiraoka

350bhp for the stock ver 5/6 TMIC is a little "too much" even if using water injection, unless you are using RACE GAS

Carlos H.

5 Type R

Cheers Carlos

I know this has probably been done to death, but is there a favourite FMIC ???? HKS , APC, Pace etc

Andy.F

I'd recommend a FMIC (APS seems very capable) and tubular headers such as the Gruppe-s. This makes the bhp easier to produce at lower boost levels and is 'much' kinder on the engine as it reduces charge temperature and exhaust gas backpressure.

Andy

carlos_hiraoka

personally would go for a custom FMIC ..... it is my opinion that the piping on the APS is way too long for my own taste.

Carlos H.

nom

I think 'gruppe-s' & 'copy of the HKS' are one & the same, aren't they? I think the bore at the collector might be slightly larger on the gruppe-s, though?

carlos_hiraoka

5 Type R, going back to topic I guess that if you are looking for a 350bhp with lowish boost, you should be looking at a setup similar to that of P20SPD (IIRC APS FMIC, Lateral Performance MD304, headers) since he was producing some very good results with just 1.2bar of boost on Elvington.

Carlos H.

carlos_hiraoka

there are other exhaust manifolds (although $$$) that have not been tested, like:

JProva:



JUN:



Carlos H.

dowser

Best turbo to make 380-400ps in a new-age STi is?

Richard

carlos_hiraoka

full Garrett GT30/25

Carlos H.

EMS

Let me guess..........

PE 1820?

Mark.

David_Wallis

I think stock up-pipe might be an issue

David

dowser

Mark - you been talking to Ric, or have you tried one already?

David - just the fitment, not the form!

Richard

john banks

How about a TD05/06-20G?



640cfm @ 2PR @ 68%.
680cfm max flow @ 68% 20.7psi.
28psi max boost limited by compressor wheel speed.

PE1820 does not flow as much and flow falls off at the top end - best flow is at only 0.85 bar vs 1.4 bar on the 20G.



16M^3/min, (16/60)*10*211.888=565cfm @ 2PR @ 68%.
18M^3/min or 635cfm @ 2PR @ 55%.
18M^3/min or 635cfm max flow @ 2PR.
27psi max boost limited by compressor wheel speed.

Comparison - slightly skewed on the angles but near enough:



[Edited by john banks - 8/11/2003 9:35:52 PM]

dowser

It would be the first choice John, but some dubious people pushed up the price/hassle of obtaining 2nd hand 05's.....

Richard

EMS

Another guess: TD04?

Mark.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Harvey,

as I said IIRC - however the comment about your best time was correct at 12.28s

Its a shame you didn't make TOTB as with those terminals you might have been able to give Andy a run for his money with a little practice with your starts

Rannoch

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Rannoch:I guess one of us has a problem with maths and English.

Andy's car is faster than mine in terms of acceleration and the top speeds will be similar subject to what gearing we are running. My car is around 250+ kg more than Andy's off the line and if I get my times to 12.10 for this car and engine combination I will be very, very happy.

john banks

I was hoping for high 11s with 450 BHP and a nice phat wedge of torque. We'll see.

C

an apparent 470bhp & only a 12.10 1/4?

Jeeees as david said I would expect mid to low 11's for that!

my at the time standard P1 JUST snuck into the 12's at santa pod, another 70bhp P20SPD's car had on mne took him to under 12.5.

if you have another 120 plus bhp surely thats abother 0.5 of a second at least?

Why is a 465bhp Evo 5 able to get an 11.2 at elvington on his 1st go but a 470bhp scoob is over a second slower?

plus the Evo hardly lighter it was based around a lardy GSR!

doesnt add up or am i missing the point?

john banks

Maybe there are difficulties in launching a 2 litre Scooby with a turbo that is too large and laggy for our long lengths of header? Maybe the peak power figures are optimistic and they don't tell the story of area under the curve in the RPM range where the car is operated? Maybe the lag in each gear adds up too much? Is it true to say that people get away with rather larger turbos on 2 litre 4G63s than we do on EJ20s and still have a very wide power band? The width of power band on Cossies and Evos is very enticing.

Personally I think on the examples of EJ20s I've seen/driven/studied results of, anything much bigger than a TD05 is borderline driveable.

Andy Forrest has knocked very little off his times by going bigger than a TD05, and no one has even beaten his TD05 times with 369 BHP yet. His car does weigh a bit less, but he has only knocked off 0.1 or 0.2 second by adding 70 BHP.

This is why I went for larger capacity despite it being more experimental. If the 20G is too laggy, then I'll just have to use a 16 or 18 G and put up with under 400 BHP. Some people that like NA engines or are used to TD04s get upset with the lag from FMIC, 16G and headers, and I can see where they are coming from.

It is easy to say that midrange torque has little effect on drag times, but it does appear not to be the case. I've walloped a car on a drag with a few attempts and different drivers with supposedly 80 BHP more just by having a far fatter lagless torque band.

Not wanting to annoy anyone here, but are we being a bit silly trying to get a driveable 400+ BHP on an EJ20?

Andy.F

John, you're right about it being the average bhp produced that counts. I'm not sure how much torque the 465bhp evo had but I bet it was more than I was running (circa 380) using only 1.45 bar ??

There was also a claimed 500+ 2.3 evo running in the mid 12's (Sam)
although I believe it was a bit laggy midrange. There's more to 1/4 miles than meets the eye

FWIW every tenth of a second saved on the 60' is said to be worth 2 tenths on the 1/4. ie if Harvey was running 1.7sec 60' times like trout and I, his 1/4 times could potentially be 11.48

The bigger capacity, high torque (or is that talk ) scoobs with 500/500 'plus' should be in the 10's easily.

Andy