Unluckiest buyer ever?
29 July 2003, 04:07 PM
#31
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Cheers Gilly will bear that in mind. Currently the best deal looks like Scooby clinic, around the £1500 mark.
Did really like though David at API engines. He knows his onions & I think he'll be very thorough. Problem is that's more like £2500.
Did really like though David at API engines. He knows his onions & I think he'll be very thorough. Problem is that's more like £2500.
29 July 2003, 04:34 PM
#32
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looking at it from the sellers point of view, how would he know that you hadn't redlined it in first for this ten mile drive, and blown it up by abuse? He's only got your word for it, just like you'll only have his word that there was nothing wrong with it before you set off. I assume you went out for a test drive? Did he have the stereo on "suspiciously loud" ? 
I think he'll tell you to go away to be honest, which is sad - there is no trust any more...
I've bought one scoob from a dealer and one privately. Not had a problem with either. Sorry to hear you've had a bit of a crap time, but hey - it's only money
I think he'll tell you to go away to be honest, which is sad - there is no trust any more...
I've bought one scoob from a dealer and one privately. Not had a problem with either. Sorry to hear you've had a bit of a crap time, but hey - it's only money
29 July 2003, 04:39 PM
#33
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Perhaps the engine work he had done offers some sort of warranty? You might be able to get it sorted under that, particularly if you get him to persue it.
29 July 2003, 04:55 PM
#34
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Did you find out exactly what work had been done to the engine before you bought it? As mentioned back then, this comment about having the "deck blocked" doesn't, as it reads, make any sense, and neither does spending a stack of money on upgraded engine internals only to sell the car a few weeks later. Was the seller able to produce receipts for the work?
As NACRO says, your best chance of getting financial compensation for this may be with the company who did the engine rebuild, if you have receipts and warranty info. Even if the work isn't warranted, they may be tempted to rectify the situation to protect their good name, especially when they hear your experiences are being shared on Scoobynet
However, if the seller gave you a load of bullsh*t about this work, and it turns out the car doesn't have steel rods, and whatever else he said was done, you may have a claim that he misrepresented the goods, although that's a very difficult angle to take to court.
As NACRO says, your best chance of getting financial compensation for this may be with the company who did the engine rebuild, if you have receipts and warranty info. Even if the work isn't warranted, they may be tempted to rectify the situation to protect their good name, especially when they hear your experiences are being shared on Scoobynet
However, if the seller gave you a load of bullsh*t about this work, and it turns out the car doesn't have steel rods, and whatever else he said was done, you may have a claim that he misrepresented the goods, although that's a very difficult angle to take to court.
29 July 2003, 05:36 PM
#35
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does anyone know what would happen if you got AA / RAC to check it and the samething happened ? (sorry i know it's of no help in this case, just wondered.)
Sorry about your bad luck
Sorry about your bad luck
29 July 2003, 07:16 PM
#36
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Greasemonkey I have the receipt for the engine work in front of me. See what you think -
Remove & install engine - £500
Strip down, skim heads, deck block & rebuild with new gaskets - £220
Supply 2nd hand cylinder head - 350.
Additional parts -
2 x steel head gaskets - £100
2 x head skim - £110
1 x block deck machine - £55
1 X top end gasket set - £103
With oils etc. the total was £1820.
The work I'm told was for a overheating problem.
The garage was G.D.A. Sports cars in Tunbridge Wells.
I've spoken to them, they remember the car. He's willing to have it back in, but I fear for starters another £500 in/out the engine plus god knows what.
Suprise suprise he reckons none of this sh*t is remotely to do with them.
Remove & install engine - £500
Strip down, skim heads, deck block & rebuild with new gaskets - £220
Supply 2nd hand cylinder head - 350.
Additional parts -
2 x steel head gaskets - £100
2 x head skim - £110
1 x block deck machine - £55
1 X top end gasket set - £103
With oils etc. the total was £1820.
The work I'm told was for a overheating problem.
The garage was G.D.A. Sports cars in Tunbridge Wells.
I've spoken to them, they remember the car. He's willing to have it back in, but I fear for starters another £500 in/out the engine plus god knows what.
Suprise suprise he reckons none of this sh*t is remotely to do with them.
30 July 2003, 10:47 AM
#37
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Remove & install engine - £500
Strip down, skim heads, deck block & rebuild with new gaskets - £220
Supply 2nd hand cylinder head - 350.
Was it replaced with the STI cylender head? and WHY? If the head was fcuked doesn't this suggest that someone had blown a piston?
Additional parts -
2 x steel head gaskets - £100
2 x head skim - £110
1 x block deck machine - £55
1 X top end gasket set - £103
With oils etc. the total was £1820.
The work I'm told was for a overheating problem.
2 x steel head gaskets - £100
2 x head skim - £110
1 x block deck machine - £55
1 X top end gasket set - £103
With oils etc. the total was £1820.
The work I'm told was for a overheating problem.
If it was just a head gasket replacement, then there should have been no way AFAIK that the big end would go because of it. HOwever, if a piston went and the receipt you are looking at doesn't tell the whole story, then I think the bigend may have been waiting to go.
I think you need to do a bit more investigation. Somthing doens't add up.
30 July 2003, 11:30 AM
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Funny you should have that problem (not funny haha, funny as in "what a coincidence"). My brother has just bought a 94 WRX privately, drove it home with no problems. We have spoken to the seller many times and reagrd him to be a diamond. However, next morning he comes to start it up and.....knock knock knock knock Knock KNock KNOck KNOCk KNOCK......... big end has gone.
Accept that if you buy privately the car is sold as seen (unless otherwise stated), if the situation was reversed and you needed the money from the sale for something else then you'd be hard pushed to get the money back to the buyer.....
...incidentally, I found my Bro an engine minus turbo with a 90 day warranty for £400...but the majority were coming in at £1100 + VAT exchnage!
Accept that if you buy privately the car is sold as seen (unless otherwise stated), if the situation was reversed and you needed the money from the sale for something else then you'd be hard pushed to get the money back to the buyer.....
...incidentally, I found my Bro an engine minus turbo with a 90 day warranty for £400...but the majority were coming in at £1100 + VAT exchnage!
30 July 2003, 11:50 AM
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I had exactly the same thing when I bought an STi2. Had to suck it though. That's the risk you take buying privately. You save money that way. That's why you do it.
Head gaskets are not a good sign of overheating really as they are steel on the STi's and should not really fail. Heads can warp if the overheating is too bad hence the replacement head I imagine.
The more prone place for overheating / coolant loss is the crank case join between the two halves. That would also be representative of a big end failure.
Pre-det will also cause overheating and number three is prone to this due to the higher temperatures there. This in turn put higher than usual loading on the big end. Hence failure.
Good luck sorting it.
[Edited by dosenöffner - 7/31/2003 12:36:45 PM]
Head gaskets are not a good sign of overheating really as they are steel on the STi's and should not really fail. Heads can warp if the overheating is too bad hence the replacement head I imagine.
The more prone place for overheating / coolant loss is the crank case join between the two halves. That would also be representative of a big end failure.
Pre-det will also cause overheating and number three is prone to this due to the higher temperatures there. This in turn put higher than usual loading on the big end. Hence failure.
Good luck sorting it.
[Edited by dosenöffner - 7/31/2003 12:36:45 PM]
30 July 2003, 12:09 PM
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Being very harsh, you probably paid a good £1000 less privately than you would have to a dealer. That £1000 will go a long way to paying for the repair. It's a risk you took when you bought it. "Caveat emptor" as nobody has said yet.
30 July 2003, 12:33 PM
#43
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Dan B the guy told me he was running on Optimax plus every third or so tank a bottle of Millers.
Would I be right in thinking even with my limited tech know how this might confuse the management system. I'd presume either use booster all the time or not at all.
Mungo you're right the purchase price was attractive. It needed a new set of tyres so I got £400 off for that.
Even though I guess no one would think of getting a £1500 repair bill so quickly.
Today the car is getting picked up. There was a rec. on here for Scooby clinic, his price is right & I liked the guy so he gets the work.
Incidently I'm giving him the receipt for the engine work so he can check for shoddy wokmanship from the garage, who knows?
Would I be right in thinking even with my limited tech know how this might confuse the management system. I'd presume either use booster all the time or not at all.
Mungo you're right the purchase price was attractive. It needed a new set of tyres so I got £400 off for that.
Even though I guess no one would think of getting a £1500 repair bill so quickly.
Today the car is getting picked up. There was a rec. on here for Scooby clinic, his price is right & I liked the guy so he gets the work.
Incidently I'm giving him the receipt for the engine work so he can check for shoddy wokmanship from the garage, who knows?
30 July 2003, 12:43 PM
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Scooby Scraggle....I commend your attitude mate...no point in crying over spilt mil...sadly these things happen and if the guy who sold you it stitched you up, he'll one day get the comeback in some shape or form......Good luck witht ht erepairs, Im sure itl all be worthwhile...
30 July 2003, 08:47 PM
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Miss STi yeah I got a good feel for the guy on the phone, he seems pretty sound.
The car does look the bizz, that's why I bought. My faith in the scoob factor is still burning bright. Driving home, then it's gone is a bit like torture, but hey it will be back soon. Gotta keep optimistic.
The car does look the bizz, that's why I bought. My faith in the scoob factor is still burning bright. Driving home, then it's gone is a bit like torture, but hey it will be back soon. Gotta keep optimistic.
31 July 2003, 02:29 AM
#52
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Hmmm. As Dan B has already said, this idea the previous owner had of adding booster every third tank is plain wrong. It has to be added to every fill in the right quantity to make a difference.
If the guy was running the tank near empty every time, what he's basically saying was that every two tanks in three were plain Optimax, no booster. In other words, two thirds of the time, the car was at high risk of det when driven hard. This is likely to be the underlying reason for the failure.
Also, as the others have said, the "repair" doesn't add up. I still don't figure what they claimed to have done with this "block decking" business (although I could be ignoring something totally obvious!), and in general it doesn't sound like the engine was overheating.
Unfortunately, the others are right with regard to "caveat emptor" though, so no matter what the cause, the only thing you can really do is get it fixed properly, and learn the lesson for the next time you buy a car.
If the guy was running the tank near empty every time, what he's basically saying was that every two tanks in three were plain Optimax, no booster. In other words, two thirds of the time, the car was at high risk of det when driven hard. This is likely to be the underlying reason for the failure.
Also, as the others have said, the "repair" doesn't add up. I still don't figure what they claimed to have done with this "block decking" business (although I could be ignoring something totally obvious!), and in general it doesn't sound like the engine was overheating.
Unfortunately, the others are right with regard to "caveat emptor" though, so no matter what the cause, the only thing you can really do is get it fixed properly, and learn the lesson for the next time you buy a car.
31 July 2003, 06:30 AM
#53
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I was the previous owner of this vehicle, the following is sent to this thread and the current owner in order to place my position in this matter.
"
Sorry I haven’t got back to you sooner as I have been away with work this week and I have also waited to take legal advice upon this matter.
In respect to the work that is required after the failure I understand fully the way you feel and that it is a real kicker after only having driven the car for a few short miles. In all cases I gave you all the information you requested and indicated all the work that has been performed on the vehicle whilst in my possession. I also indicated that the car was cherished, serviced and treated with the appropriate care and attention as required. I also indicated that the sale was not effectively by choice and that impending migration required me to sell the car, I have done this now in order to ensure that I am not in a position of being under pressure to sell the car when I actually move on.
The remedial work within the engine was to resolve an overheating problem that was being caused by coolant being expelled by the engine thru the coolant bottle. I looked for recommendations on Scoobynet within the SE area and found the engineering company that performed the work was well recommended by local Scooby owners. They performed the work as required and the engine returned to its correct operating temperature and showed no ill-effects.
As you state in the threads on Scoobynet however you did buy the car privately and it was sold as seen. You had ample opportunity to inspect the vehicle at all levels, I took you for a test drive of a reasonable distance and indicated its performance and handling, and also you had a mechanic inspect the vehicle and also test drive it. At no point was there any indication of a pending failure and your mechanic indicated that he was satisfied with the vehicle.
You indicate that I should assist in the repair of the current problem in terms of financial assistance and that you appeal to my good nature in doing so. Had this incident happened and we had worked together to resolve it perhaps that could of happened (notwithstanding the implicit act of liability that I would of incurred had I assisted – even though I do not believe that I am liable for the damage). However your stance and wording in the public domain does not indicate, in my opinion, that this should happen as the inference is that I have knowingly sold you a vehicle with a substantial defect. I object to this inference and in my opinion consider it a almost libellous act. I have relied on Scoobynet many times over the last few years and have enjoyed the knowledge and comfort of belonging to a group of enthusiasts who exist to assist each other, however you inference of my behaviour in this matter portrays myself as an untrustworthy individual to the Scoobynet community who is unable or incapable of owning and maintaining a car of this stature correctly.
I requested that you send me a copy of the receipt that was accidentally taken, not specifically because of the terms of sale – just that I need it for my accounting practices, however you desire to withhold it on the basis that it may be utilised as a bargaining tool. The fact that you have allayed to this in a public domain means that you accept the fact that it was sold as seen (therefore confirming the terms of the sale), and that your intentions in this matter are not totally upfront.
On this basis I’m not prepared, and also not required legally, to assist you in this matter.
"
Additionally to that I'd also like to say that this car was driven primarily by my wife during the majority of time that I had it and was never driven hard by her, when I drove it was treated to a bottle of Millers in a tank and even then it was not driven to extreme. The car has never been track tested or on a track whilst in my possesion.
I am somewhat concerned on the nature of some of the language that has been used in threads related to this matter and am now in a situtation where my wife and two kids are worried about answering the door or being in the house on their own.
In the main the replies have been sensible and critical in the right balance as you would expect from the wider audience that this forum encompasses, however some replies have been downright threatening.
"
Sorry I haven’t got back to you sooner as I have been away with work this week and I have also waited to take legal advice upon this matter.
In respect to the work that is required after the failure I understand fully the way you feel and that it is a real kicker after only having driven the car for a few short miles. In all cases I gave you all the information you requested and indicated all the work that has been performed on the vehicle whilst in my possession. I also indicated that the car was cherished, serviced and treated with the appropriate care and attention as required. I also indicated that the sale was not effectively by choice and that impending migration required me to sell the car, I have done this now in order to ensure that I am not in a position of being under pressure to sell the car when I actually move on.
The remedial work within the engine was to resolve an overheating problem that was being caused by coolant being expelled by the engine thru the coolant bottle. I looked for recommendations on Scoobynet within the SE area and found the engineering company that performed the work was well recommended by local Scooby owners. They performed the work as required and the engine returned to its correct operating temperature and showed no ill-effects.
As you state in the threads on Scoobynet however you did buy the car privately and it was sold as seen. You had ample opportunity to inspect the vehicle at all levels, I took you for a test drive of a reasonable distance and indicated its performance and handling, and also you had a mechanic inspect the vehicle and also test drive it. At no point was there any indication of a pending failure and your mechanic indicated that he was satisfied with the vehicle.
You indicate that I should assist in the repair of the current problem in terms of financial assistance and that you appeal to my good nature in doing so. Had this incident happened and we had worked together to resolve it perhaps that could of happened (notwithstanding the implicit act of liability that I would of incurred had I assisted – even though I do not believe that I am liable for the damage). However your stance and wording in the public domain does not indicate, in my opinion, that this should happen as the inference is that I have knowingly sold you a vehicle with a substantial defect. I object to this inference and in my opinion consider it a almost libellous act. I have relied on Scoobynet many times over the last few years and have enjoyed the knowledge and comfort of belonging to a group of enthusiasts who exist to assist each other, however you inference of my behaviour in this matter portrays myself as an untrustworthy individual to the Scoobynet community who is unable or incapable of owning and maintaining a car of this stature correctly.
I requested that you send me a copy of the receipt that was accidentally taken, not specifically because of the terms of sale – just that I need it for my accounting practices, however you desire to withhold it on the basis that it may be utilised as a bargaining tool. The fact that you have allayed to this in a public domain means that you accept the fact that it was sold as seen (therefore confirming the terms of the sale), and that your intentions in this matter are not totally upfront.
On this basis I’m not prepared, and also not required legally, to assist you in this matter.
"
Additionally to that I'd also like to say that this car was driven primarily by my wife during the majority of time that I had it and was never driven hard by her, when I drove it was treated to a bottle of Millers in a tank and even then it was not driven to extreme. The car has never been track tested or on a track whilst in my possesion.
I am somewhat concerned on the nature of some of the language that has been used in threads related to this matter and am now in a situtation where my wife and two kids are worried about answering the door or being in the house on their own.
In the main the replies have been sensible and critical in the right balance as you would expect from the wider audience that this forum encompasses, however some replies have been downright threatening.
31 July 2003, 10:44 AM
#55
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I'd have my lawyer draft it too. It does seem like a reasonable response. Like I said exactly the same thing happened to me and it is a shame but I went private to get a cheaper deal in the first place.
It's the luck of the draw. Best of luck to both sides of the arguement.
It's the luck of the draw. Best of luck to both sides of the arguement.
31 July 2003, 11:21 AM
#56
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Hmm.. I've read all of this thread a few times, and don't see where the chap who bought it has ever said "I think he lied". All I can see is some speculation, but he's never seriously suggested that he thinks he's been ripped off.
Please remember - this is just text, you don't have any idea of the thoughts and feelings behind the writing. It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get across your true meanings in purely text.
Who can honestly say they wouldn't think or say the same sorts of things if it happened to them?? It's only human nature to speculate and to think the worst. That doesn't mean its true, and I would agree that posting these thoughts on a public BBS is different to chatting down the pub with your mates about it..
Glad to see you think most people are being reasoned and sensible about it, but after all our opinions aren't worth a dime in this matter. As for the "threats" it's all bluster and stupidity - ignore it.
Just my opinion again
Please remember - this is just text, you don't have any idea of the thoughts and feelings behind the writing. It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get across your true meanings in purely text.
Who can honestly say they wouldn't think or say the same sorts of things if it happened to them?? It's only human nature to speculate and to think the worst. That doesn't mean its true, and I would agree that posting these thoughts on a public BBS is different to chatting down the pub with your mates about it..
Glad to see you think most people are being reasoned and sensible about it, but after all our opinions aren't worth a dime in this matter. As for the "threats" it's all bluster and stupidity - ignore it.
Just my opinion again
31 July 2003, 12:08 PM
#57
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Who can honestly say they wouldn't think or say the same sorts of things if it happened to them??
Much like when your car is nicked. Sure you are upset but people coming on those threads saying if I ever caught them. What?!! You'll beat them up and go to jail? If you're lucky. You'll get stabbed or shot over a car? Not smart.
This is something that may have been sorted ammicablly but other people have also contributed to this thread turning sour.
Sympathy to both parties involed but respect to the sellers right to sell a car and the purchasers agreement to purchase.
[Edited by dosenöffner - 7/31/2003 12:28:31 PM]
31 July 2003, 12:13 PM
#58
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yeah I've got to agree that's a nice piece. Reading it even I am beginning to feel guilty. I suppose you are right in what you say, perhaps I should have come to you first & not posted the thread. In my defence I can only say it's very hard not to feel cheated in those circumstances & primarily the reason for coming to the forum was for advice, to see if it's happened to any one else & how I can go forward.
When almost everyone you speak to says you've been "had" it's difficult to think otherwise. Though I've always maintained to people, I trusted you as a seller & believed you have looked after the car very well. A stance that usually receives disbelieving laughs.
I still am of that opinion. Remember I have no prior knowledge of this type of car & so rely upon others here for advice. Again some of the comments here have degenerated somewhat. If it has made you feel intimidated then I am sorry for that. I am a very mild mannered chap & would never dream of coming over to you to cause trouble. In hindsight I can see how some of the comments must look to you so perhaps that was unresponsible of me.
I popped round a see you yesterday with the receipt. Of course you can have it. I have one & it's ne good to me. Blackmail was never my thing really.
All said & done the whole scoob world knows our business when it's a private matter only. Too late now.
I never set out to defame your character & likewise know in reality I have to pick up the bill alone. The chances of any help from you were remote at best.
Again please don't feel threatened, that just's not me. You've seen two of my kids. I'm the same as you. Though put yourself in my place, this is a hard thing to accept.
This thread is now dead. You have my number if you want to speak, otherwise good luck in OZ.
[Edited by Redkop - 7/31/2003 2:40:56 PM]
When almost everyone you speak to says you've been "had" it's difficult to think otherwise. Though I've always maintained to people, I trusted you as a seller & believed you have looked after the car very well. A stance that usually receives disbelieving laughs.
I still am of that opinion. Remember I have no prior knowledge of this type of car & so rely upon others here for advice. Again some of the comments here have degenerated somewhat. If it has made you feel intimidated then I am sorry for that. I am a very mild mannered chap & would never dream of coming over to you to cause trouble. In hindsight I can see how some of the comments must look to you so perhaps that was unresponsible of me.
I popped round a see you yesterday with the receipt. Of course you can have it. I have one & it's ne good to me. Blackmail was never my thing really.
All said & done the whole scoob world knows our business when it's a private matter only. Too late now.
I never set out to defame your character & likewise know in reality I have to pick up the bill alone. The chances of any help from you were remote at best.
Again please don't feel threatened, that just's not me. You've seen two of my kids. I'm the same as you. Though put yourself in my place, this is a hard thing to accept.
This thread is now dead. You have my number if you want to speak, otherwise good luck in OZ.
[Edited by Redkop - 7/31/2003 2:40:56 PM]
31 July 2003, 12:27 PM
#59
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What?!!! He's going to OZ? Being a Kiwi I take it all back. This chap should be punished. If Australia is so great why do they all live around the edge. I feel another thread must be started.
Good luck Downunder. Bobmac (Robert MacPhee) from ScoobyNet went down there a couple years ago. From what I can tell he is loving it.
[Edited by dosenöffner - 7/31/2003 12:33:19 PM]
If Australia is so great why do they all live around the edge. I feel another thread must be started.Good luck Downunder. Bobmac (Robert MacPhee) from ScoobyNet went down there a couple years ago. From what I can tell he is loving it.
[Edited by dosenöffner - 7/31/2003 12:33:19 PM]