banshi

Please no! Possibly because of the recent high temperatures.

He is likely to drive around with one bolt in 'em until he decides weather or not to leave them in the car

greasemonkey

The annoying thing is that Mickey would probably survive. It's the poor b******** in the back who'd be in the worst state. You'd only need a parking speed shunt for a rear passenger head to cage interface, given how close the tubing is to the headrest.

Exactly Jonny, he's building a competition car, not a road car. It will have properly secured, helmeted occupants, no rear-seat passengers, and, importantly, you say yourself the cage will be "altered", it will be complete, and fitted properly, unlike Mickey's.

Say what? Don't seem as though Alyn has said anything, one way or the other, on the merits of cages in road cars. In any case, you don't have the slightest idea what I do for a living, but suffice to say that I've a damn good idea what I'm talking about. As indeed do the other posters who think this is a bad idea...

Tell you what Jon, why don't you join Mickey for a high speed ride, and tell us how you get on if he goes off?

Gary, there's no intention to start WWIII here, but as for letting Mickey "like" his purchase, I'm hardly going to say his cage is fine and dandy when I know full well that having it in his car is more dangerous than not.

PS, phoned the insurance company yet Mickey?

wakeboardar

greasemonkey you sound like a real ****

ripping peoples quotes and using them to highlight there errors or gramma

the kids got some bars for his car thats all, good luck to him its got to help in a roll

scoobydevil1

jonny gav i think you should look at peeps profiles.
i build rally and race cars its my family business so i know few things about rally cars and cars in general.
mickys cage is a danger to himself and his passengers if you look at the start of this thread you will see some clickys the roll cage in the wagon is how it should be done .

not buggered up by some weekend diy 'er

as for my client micky, his cage cost £950 it complied with fia standards and took more then a few hours to install , it was weilded into the car and has been bent in a fair bit ,it was not made from an old sit up frame and installed by a incompent fool.

if he had your incomplete cage he would be in hospital now very badly hurt

wakeboarder are you one of micky's brain dead friends he has an incomplete excuse for a roll cage which is a danger to all .

grease monkey is correct about mickys cage and is just using the comments on here to show how stupid micky is .
maybe you should join him in a high speed trip in his car , do us all a favour.

[Edited by scoobydevil1 - 7/21/2003 7:42:47 PM]

greasemonkey

S'alright, I didn't have an opinion on you one way or t'other until I read your contribution. Looks like I'll have to cross you off my Christmas card list along with the other muppets

Using quotes is a nice easy way of making it clear that you're replying to a specific point. As for highlighting errors, I think Mickey's being a little silly. Seeing as this is a discussion forum, and it's a discussion he started, we're more than entitled to say so.

...and your background in carpentry makes you ideally qualified to comment? It won't, that's the point, and if you look at the thread you'll see I'm not the only one saying so. Not only will it not help in the event of a roll, it'll make things far worse in the event of any other form of accident - especially seeing as he says he's not even secured it properly. Still, it's his life, just hope his arrogance doesn't end up costing somebody else theirs...

[Edited by greasemonkey - 7/21/2003 7:45:42 PM]

wakeboardar

yep a real ****

scoobydevil1

wakeboardar shall i start a thread about wooden roll cages on farm carts and soap box racers so you can comment with authority or may be wood worm in my floor boards ooooo tell me how to hang a door.

wakeboardar

hehehe thats funny

at least you got good sense of humour

some people can be so opinionated its comical

image doctor

Been a couple of good threads lately.

Mostly young dudes who don't know ****!

Keep on cruising dude!

skiddus_markus

It's opened my eyes.I bought an alloy bolt in rear cage but swapped it for an engine(to rebuild).From reading this thread,it seems that it would have been a liability in a crash with alloy being even weaker than steel.
What does an average cage suitable for fast road and trackdays weigh in something like a GTiR?

sg72

Cannot beleive, this ones still going on.

Eveyone seems to be missing the point.

I've never ever heard of a rollcage causing an accident.

Bad judgement by you (your co-driver) or other road users maybe.

FAKME ! Why not just go out and buy a works WRC car and tear around smashing it to bits confident in the knowledge. you're safe and sound, in your factory crash tested cocoon.

All us lesser gifted (unenlightened mortals) are going to snuff it.

DRIVE SAFE!

BTW.Im thinking of fitting drumbrakes to the front of my Scoob. Fancy a lift?

P.S. whats it like trying to look out at a tight junction with a full race harness on?

Well goodness me that was close . Didn't see him there.
Just about had to call me door brace bars into action.

RLMFAO! GET A LIFE ! BE SAFE STICK TO PLAYSTATION!

johnfelstead

i managed just fine in a five point harness driving 1200 miles the other week, thankyou very much.

Alloy cages were banned from all forms of motorsport about 13 years ago because they snap and tend to leave the driver in a bit of a mess.

sg72

John I trust Your word.

And your advice.
But we are not YOU!

Was that harness done up as tight as at the "RING"

How tight should it be.(TOO slack. and its not doing its job)

This is not aimed at you John.But does a dash mounted guage , Scooby noddin' dug constitute a potential killer as it flies towards your head in a front end shunt.

Course they are. But it won' stop us unenlightened from fitting them.( With the double sided sticky tape supplied.LOL)

It's life and death out there!

IMHO You never outway the risks. Just move the goalposts.

johnfelstead

I know you are not me, sometimes i cant help but wonder at what some people do or think though, as for the people calling others a ****, words fail me.

That harness was in a WRX wagon rally car over in the USA, and yes it was well adjusted. I also managed to drive 20,000 miles in a westfield fully harnessed up without a single problem.

I dont have any nodding dogs or gauges or anything loose in my car for that reason, its common sense that most people on the road dont seem to posses, the stuff people put on their rear parcel shelves is unbelievable. Check yours then imagine that after a big shunt and see if you fancy it flying through your cabin.

Maybe i am wierd and actually think about things a bit more deaply than, is there any fuel in the car.

Dont think i have anything else constructive to add now, so enjoy your car, but dont turn it into a killer.

sg72

Thanks John. WELL Answered MY MAN.

greasemonkey

Depends on which way you mean it. It's eminently possible that someone, lulled in a false sense of security by the cage, might be more tempted to drive beyond sensible limits, and thus be more likely to crash.

We know beyond any doubt that the insurance companies work on this basis, and this thread shows that at least two respondents think that any cage must make the car safer, no matter what it's made of, or how shoddily it is fitted.

Thus, while the presence of the cage may not directly cause an accident, it's not hard to forsee a set of circumstances where it could do so indirectly.

Indeedy. In fact, a good old boring RTA is by far the likeliest accident that could happen to Mickey, and the consequence of this sort of RTA with this cage in his car aren't really very positive.

How, for example, would a rear-seat passenger fare in the case of a low speed side impact? The pics Mick put up of his cage in car on page 1 seem to have disappeared, but suffice to say the metal's awful close to the rear head rests...

How would Mickey's legs survive a side impact, bearing in mind that there aren't proper welded floor plates in his car, and that he seems not even to have bolted the bottoms down?

Not exactly responsible behaviour on the public highway, although I suspect that's your point

Exactly; which brings us back to my original question: Why does Mickey need a cage in a roadcar that's only used for dragging or occasional track days?

Piece of p***, just loosen the shoulder belts a bit. Reaching round for your helmet though, that's hard



[Edited by greasemonkey - 7/22/2003 12:19:02 AM]

sg72

Yet another good reply.

Thanks Greasemonkey.

Now lets stop this Kneejerk reaction and let Micky decide.

Think we've covered many aspects of safety here.

Don,t be lulled into thinking your car can now compete in a special stage just cause you added a bolt in roll cage.

I'm sure you won't Micky (Patronising sg72 GIT).


Just remember I've got one of these cages too(all be it Factory fitted)

Don't half get people talking.LOL!

StickyMicky

this is right, and once again people have still compleatly missed the point and started rabbiting on about how its been installed shoddy

ffs read the posts!!
it has not been fully installed!
@ the moment its not even remotly installed, as the bars are removed and the main hoop is lieing backwards

i build up the cage, take sum fotos and post theme here to check to see if it was what i had been led to belive, and i get all this ****e lol

i do not know who wakeboarder is lol
but i bet hes not the only one with his views

all this talk of a rear seat passenger hitting his head etc etc
what rear seat passenger??
do u think i take the kids to school in this?
what kids?
what passengers??
i had my girlfriends shopping in there a few nights back, oooo she would have went mental if the cage caused her nice, fresh oranges to smash up be cause its been installed with prittstick and bubble gum.
/me still thinks the point has totaly been missed by those select few, with the superior, technical, cage, type knowledge

do u think i built up the cage and then did a rally event or sumthing??
wtf lol
i was hardly gonna roll the car driving to work in rush hour traffic, there was a moment when i went sliding into the works car park on 2 wheels while chatting on my mobile to the girlfriend, while useing the other hand to add a self tapper screw to the cage, becuase i thought i heard a rattle.
hmmmm... or maybe not

greasemonkey

We did.

To be honest Mick it's getting hard to keep up with you. One minute you say "it's in and it's staying in", then you say it's not. Are you just making this up as you go along?

Lol! You're priceless! Do you not think that leaving a large, unsecured metal hoop in the back of your car is, in itself, rather dangerous? Why don't you just take it out and leave it in the garage?

Yes Mickey, you got a number of people who know what they're talking about telling you that it wasn't what you were led to believe (i.e. a "full on" roll cage"), and isn't actually such a good idea at all. If your ego wasn't able to cope with this sort of answer, you shouldn't have asked what we thought!

It's interesting to see that he can't actually do better than chuck insults around. Has he actually given a reason why he thinks I'm incorrect, for example? If calling people names is the best he can manage, it says more about his level of intelligence than anything else. I wonder how many other names he knows?

You never ever carry passengers?

No, Mickey, we haven't. The point is that this cage makes your car a more dangerous place to be in, for passengers, and for yourself. Glad you find things like that so funny, er, lol!

steve_nairn_sti

FULL agreement with greasemonkey!

I think its Sticky that's missed the point. He's been given the answers to the question that he asked yet blatantly refuses to take any advice from EXPERIENCED Scoobynetters.

He will grow up......... one day.

And as for wakeboarder? Well, don't get me started!

Treacle

Can't believe this thread is still running!!

Pete Croney

Micky

My advice would be get a copy of the MSA "Blue Book". It contains the technical spec on cages. Your cage won't comply with all of it as the Japanese "street" cages are not for competition use. Cages which are approved have been designed from years of technical feedback, mostly from people rolling their cars into the forests. As a result they are not only safe, but they now create a strong caccoon of protection that also stiffens the car up.

The important thing to check is that you have all of the recommended clearances between your head (wearing a helmet) and the bars. Eg, if you went over a hump back bridge, is there enough room to stop you hitting your head on the centre hoop and knocking yourself out? I had a serious head on years ago. Not in a Scooby, but in a Granada Scorpio and I was hit head on by a long wheel base Landrover. All of the pedals came into the base of my seat and I cut my head open on the mic for the car phone. When I went to see the car after the accident, the mic was at least 18 inches away from the closest I could get to it, but you could see hair from my head still on it. Don't under estimate what you can hit in a crash. The interior of your car has been ergonomically designed so that if you hit things like the centre pillar, you hit a plastic cover that will absorb the impact of your head. A steel pipe absorbs nothing.

The dangers of non approved cages are partially from you relying on it but mostly from you hitting bits of it. That's why insurance companies don't like them.

StickyMicky

ok ok
is there a version of this book online?
although my head could not hit the center hoop
and all the bars have a high density foam padding on them

and the car is NOT being built for comp use, its a daly driver that will see the odd track day and som drag strips

grease monkey
yes i made the whole thing up, i really made the cage from mcdonalds straws, you have sussed me out and now im very embarrased, i used a few pink drinking straws to try and give a STI emphasis but it seams like i have been sussed out
shame

when i wrote "the cage is in and its staying in" it was at that moment in time fully built in the car, but it was not bolted to the floor for reasons i have allready given

give over with this "dont u think sum large metal tubing could hit you in a crash", ****e

ffs do u think im botherd if i drive down the road with a 28" telly on the back seat of the car while delivering it? that could "kill" me as well
although its unlikely
and it wouldnt stop me from doing it

Pete Croney

I am pretty certain that the Blue Book is not on line.

If you drag race the car, shouldn't it be as light as possible?

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

It'd be nice if people could cease with the abuse on this thread or I'll lock it.

Lots of useful information coming out, so please keep on subject.

Thanks

johnfelstead

available at http://www.msauk.org/

It will cost you £20

Pete, stop being sensible, it doesnt work with mikey, he will start going ffs at you.

+Doc+

I`m a bit lost?
Firstly you plan to run your car up the drag strip yet you add to the overall weight of the car?
Secondly you plan to use a car designed for rallying on a race track with a crap roll cage?
Thats the long and short of it and it seems a bit silly to me.
Doc

banshi

Agreed Puff,

It's amazing isn't it!

With the insults and derision displayed it's a wonder it's still running. But, people have risen above it and are still trying to provide guidance.

It's down to the individual whose advice they accept, or indeed dismiss. But there's little justification for the contempt.

KungFuMonkey

Hmmm, My two pence worth comming up. If you dont want to read it, dont.

Ive read this a couple of times and I still cant see how this has erupted into such a big arguments. Some missunderstanding afoot me thinks.

StickyMicky seems to have got a Jap spec street cage? fairly cheeply. He's saying he only used his car for tackdays and Drag Racing, and i'd asume he'll be wearing a crash helmet to do this so his head should be OK (Disclaimer my opinion etc.). As long as he puts propper rollcage padding (Not pipe insulation) on the cage anywhere there is a posibilty of contact that should offer a degree of impact protection.

If anyone has cut a B pillar (Or A or C) through on any modern car and had a look at it, you'll see its practically a main cage hoop on its own. If you look at the covering they get it tends to be a lightly padded plastic and i cant see how having a decently padded cage will be any worse than hitting your head on this. I'll admit though that you have a greater chance of hitting your head as its closer to you that the original pillars.

Good luck to you StickyMickey, but for gods sake either bolt it in propperly (including the plates under the feet or theres a good chance it will punch through the floor if you roll) or take it out. Any un-secured metal object is very very hazardous.

Personally id never have a rear passanger in a car with a cage, as there is a good chance in an accident they would be seroiusly hurt. The cage is only meant to protect people in the front and not the back. If it was it wouldnt be designed the way it is.

Id agree whole hartedly about weld in cages being sooo much better than bolt in. But still a bolt in cage in a competition car is better than no cage. A bolt in six point adds no strength to the shell. A multi point bolt in adds a bit, and propper weld in cage adds tonnes.

Personally speaking i dont like the cage shown as i think it has terrible load paths, and with a good press on the front it looks like it would fail readily. It deffinatley looks like its a cosmetic cage rather that for protection, although saying that it would be stronger than wothout a cage at all.

If Alyn at AS performance is using this cage as a basis of a rally car im sure it will be illeagal as the Blue book says (i think) for Normal Steel CDS tubing cage in a sloon car it Must be 50mm diam and 3.0mm thick. I pitty his customer if this is the case.

My two pence worth over, if you read it you read it.

Oh and i dont think attacking people personally because of their comments achieves much. Argue over the worth of their comments sure, but slaggin people of is a childs approach when they cant formulate a good arguemtn. Grow up!

Editted to say: And i know i cant spell.

[Edited by KungFuMonkey - 7/22/2003 1:12:09 PM]

StiShrek

Give me strength Steve Cairn STi or watever your name is.

There are plenty of jobsworths/bigots on this thread picking up *** ends. 'You dont want to do it like that.' FFS let him do what the fek he wants without the 'i fit roll cages for a living blah de blah' and your arrogant comments

'slagging off other respected members of Scoobynet for poor spelling'

'yet blatantly refuses to take any advice from EXPERIENCED Scoobynetters'

I dont hold anyone on this forum in any higher esteem than others. Be an individual not a sheep.

Is the world going mad talking about not putting anything that in your car that might potentially harm you (like guages) or having a second car to run yourself too and from your lock up where you keep your hi-perf subaru (on another thread)??

Paranoia has crept in big time.

This forum has gone soft like the country.