Fatman

OK I'll let you know mate, but so far everyone's playing ball nicely. I've yet to receive four payments and two of those have confirmed that they're about to pay.

Scoty

The only problem I knew of, was that some people had problems getting the collector to up-pipe sealed, and it was trial and error to get it right, if it didn't go well first time.
My turbo, turbo inlet and downpipe all had to be moved to different positions to allow the up-pipe to collector seal properly.
Thats something I dont think anyone could have forsene and I havent heard of this happening before in order to get the headers and up-pipe fitted.
As a customer, I would have paid for the time it actualy took to fit the headers, but I appreciate that he has had other prioities, and posibly saved me some money by working it the way he did.
I worked in a garage for 6 years!! I know what it can be like.

My advice to anyone in this groupe buy would be to take on board what I've writen above and tell who ever is fitting them, that this is were the job could end up. (worst case scinario?)

Also mention that it would be a good idea to relocate the loom that runs along the bottom of the bumper, so that it does not melt on the headers once they are fitted.

Scoty

Just to add, it was well worth the wait!!

The car revs much quicker, and feels as though it has freed up the top end considerably, got caught out a few times with the rev limiter.
The noise is awsome, does sound like a bike, but you still keep the flat 4 rumble when chugging along

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Scoty , have you got FULL de cat?? cheers alan.

Scoty

Alan, I have a full 3 inch decated Hayward and Scott SS system with downpipe splitter

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Scoty Ive got full de cat its a Jasma Jap full raceing pipe so mine will sound mental ???? AND my wife will go mad or MADDER ??? may have to put my pro drive back on , cheers alan.

Fatman

Thanks for the feedback Scoty.

In your experience, would you still advocate moving the loom even if the headers have been lagged with exhaust wrap?

Scoty

Alan, it will sound good m8

Fatman, it might not need moved on all cars, but it's definately something to check for when the headers are fitted and in place.
It's just a saftey precaution, and even with lagged headers it will still melt the wiring loom and its protective surround if it is resting on the headers or is too close to them.


Hope that makes sence?

Fatman

Yes, that makes sense. I guess it's just a case of being sensible and having a good look round once the manifold is in place.

Scoty

It's not a big job to move the loom a wee bit though, takes about 30 second to do with a couple of cable ties and a pair of snips

AlanG

This has been documented on other threads with regard to these headers and the remedy has been written on those threads. On two occasions by myself that i can remember to make others aware.

Which suggests he hasn't.
There are few garages out there which are quite so accomodating and reinforces the helpfulness your chosen establishment to work on your vehicle has given to you.

Very good point Scoty.

The loom does indeed need to be moved. All you need is to undo the retaining tiewraps on the loom, pull the loom further on to the front crossmember and re-attach the loom with tie wraps on conveniently placed holes already there.

To substantiate what Scoty is implying and to help others about to fit, you have to fit the headers to the heads, fit the up-pipe to the headers, then alter the brackets which support the top of the up-pipe to the engine to allow the brackets to sit flush on the top flange. failure to do so,will cause the bottom of the up-pipe to blow at the gasket, due to the up-pipe at the top being pulled on to the brackets bolted to it.

Please note though, that if you use the flexi up-pipe, then this may not be necessary due to its' flexibility.

Most definitely!!

My UK car always produced max power at 6100rpm, but with these headers it produces max power at 6800rpm!
It's soooo addictive to hear it go up the rev range. Once you get to about 5000rpm it's just like a bike... waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, tisshh!!....waaaaaahhhh.....tisshhh!!!! Brill!!

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 8/26/2003 11:39:22 PM]

ademid

Alan

Is all that difference you have only apparent after a re-map or have you just stuck them on? (so to speak)

I don't think getting them fitted will be a problem but getting the car re-mapped may be a bit tricky....

I'm just trying to find out if I will notice any difference before I can arrange for the re-map

Ade

john banks

You may find that the boost is rather sluggish - depending on model of Impreza then a boost controller or restrictor valve can assist. A UK car should be OK on the fuelling, although not optimal, and the timing should be OK - usually you can advance a bit with headers.

AlanG

I found that just changing the headers with no remap didn't change spool up much but detected a slight loss of torque round about 3-3500rpm.
This was backed up on AP22. It was (on my car anyroad) only slight though.
From 4500rpm onwards, there was a marked improvement in performance over the std headers.

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 8/27/2003 11:06:20 AM]

john banks

You are using a 3 port and the Link boost control though Alan - I believe the Link has a boost target system that does not have a capped maximum duty cycle but a spool up estimated duty cycle? On a few cars with a 2 port solenoid and original restrictor they've often ended up not being able to run much over 1 bar with headers (HKS and Gruppe S) even in the midrange even with 91% duty cycle unless the restrictor is changed too. One car on a standard ECU was only getting 0.7 bar. Just something to look out for.

AlanG

I'm only commenting on my experience when i changed from std headers to the Gruppe-S headers before remap John.

My Link ECU is run in open loop mode and had no changes done to it when checking for differences. The WG Base (duty cycle) is a fixed value on the Link which the ECU tries to achieve under certain conditions. Not ideal certainly, since the JECS has the ability to be mapped on various load points for duty cycle. The Link is a bit of a compromise in these circumstances

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 8/27/2003 1:01:52 PM]

ademid

So after that very technical bunch of anwsers I think I am right in assuming that no the car won't be in desperate need of a re-map (could benefit from one but not really losing much)

I might lose a touch of low range torque but get that back with plenty of company further up the rev range?

Ade

john banks

See what happens and take it from there. If the boost is low you will know about it and there are ways around it.

AlanG

Agree with John's statement of suck it and see. All cars are different due to tuning equipment chosen for their application. What works on one may not work on another.

That is what i experienced on my car, but you must remember all cars are different due to their specific components used. Get the car mapped to suit the headers and reap the true benefit from them

Alan

ademid

I think that is my ultimate plan (getting a re-map) But it would be nice to spread the cost over a little while rather than having to get it all done at once.

So I'll go for the suck it and see approach then no doubt come back on scoobynet asking for advise as for what to do next

Thanks for your comments guys

Ade

Andy.F

When are you getting your car mapped to suit the headers Alan

[Edited by Andy.F - 8/27/2003 3:10:12 PM]

AlanG

PMSL

Whenever the car stays in one piece for longer than a week at a time Andy.

Alan

Fatman

Update
The manifolds have now cleared Customs. More info by email.

Abbylad

iTrader: (4)

to anyone not fitting an EGT probe, you`ll need an 18mm plug, still haven`t found one (sump plug wont fit) but at least you know the size now, managed to find an 18mm pipe fitting that fitted, just it had a bloody hole in the end!!!!!!

Fatman

There was a thread on this earlier. Someone said that there's a blanking plug supplied with the kit from Gruppe-S. Not true? If not, then I think TSL can supply a plug.

Richard Curtis

Alan G,

You seem to know your stuff regards the assembly -

I'll be swapping the turbo over at the same time with mine, would advise any change of sequence or just swap turbo first then refit everything else as suggested?

Also - would you keep any of the old gaskets or renew the lot? if renew would the standard oem items do?

Sorry for all the questions, i just want to start getting things ready in advance rather than find out the hard way.

Cheers

Rich

AlanG

Change the headers at the same time as turbo is coming off, since the turbo would need to come off to make alterations to the support brackets which hold the top of the up-pipe, assuming you have a solid up-pipe?

I used to always replace the gaskets when i changed the turbo, but it came an almost weekly event (no kiddin'... ) it was starting to become expensive, so now re-use my gaskets but have a look at the fire ring on them. If there's evidence of blow by at the fire ring, then i would probably replace that particular gasket.

Part No: 14038AA000-Cyl head to Manifold
Part No: 44022AA150-Up-pipe to Turbo
Part No: 44022AA180-Turbo to Downpipe
Manifold to up-pipe gasket is supplied by Gruppe-S.

Just remember to A fit the manifold to the heads, B fit the up-pipe to manifold,thenC make alterations as necessary to the support brackets for the top of the up-pipe, assuming you have bought it with the solid up-pipe.

Mail me if you need any help

Alan

Richard Curtis

Cheers Alan

Just the info I was looking for

Rich

Edcase

Guys, for those of you who have wrapped your headers / uppipe / dpipe, how many and what size of the metal ties did you need???

AlanG

I bought one of those packets of "Snap Strap" from Demon Tweeks approximately £20.
Consists of 20 ft of stainless material and 20 clips.

Part No: 13001

The straps are 5/16" wide, so you can get in to the tight spots of the manifold quite easily.

Dead easy to use and you can get them pulled in nice and tight.

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 8/28/2003 11:33:32 AM]