LG John

Totally agree I've seen some martial arts guys that could destroy the hardest of hard guys in seconds

Crush, just try not to get involved. If anyone does hassle you try a double chop (as in with each hand at the same time) to each side of the neck. Chances are the thug won't block both and believe me he'll will be seeing flying pink elephants with the pressure drop to the brain. Take your hand now and do it semi-hard to each side of your neck and you'll feel what I mean (not too hard btw)

Most neds will try and go for the face because that's where you are supposed to hit people in a fight Think clever and go for the softer spots, *****, neck (not too hard you can kill), under the arm pit, temples, ribs, solar plexsus (sp?), knees, etc Ramming a broken bottle of bru into their face might help also

LG John

I keep hearing Rick Young mentioned a lot in martial arts circles. What's his story? What does he teach, where and how good/hard is he?

Ray_li

i agree with Pete.

A street fighter is gonna be looking for cheap shots where anormal person wont.
When fighting someone with training its easier than fighting a street fighter for example:
(looking at the persons stance to see which style they are fightung with)
fighting a Boxer you know his gonna be punching you 90% of the time so you out kick him, take his legs out or take him to the floor.
A TKD person you know his gonna be kicking you so you move in and stay close. etc ect
A street fighter you just dont know wot his gonna be doing.

Ray

Im not p1ssing on the martial artists, im one to.

Ray_li

Saxo Boy

Rick Young teaches Jeet Kune DO (Bruce lee's martial art) in Edinburgh. He is know for cross training or he could just be your postman by day

Ray

ps. whats ya style?

LG John

If some one moves in close kick them in the knees or use your knees. There seems to be a lot of martial arts that have huge chucks of defense techniques missing I wouldn't give a rats where I hit a guy if I was started on! I'd try for the softest or easiest to hit part pure and simple.

Also, any one that drops into 'stance' in a street fight deserves a kick-in The kuk sool stance has your legs wide appart and you are low down with a 90 degree bend in both knees. You'd get totally pasted if you tried to fight from this stance as its so static!! Stance if for muscle development and balance training, etc - its not for fighting!! For fighting you need to be light on your feet and able to move around and shift your weight quickly.

LG John

Kuk Sool Won - I train under pu sab a nim Don McKenzie in Edinburgh and he's a pretty inspirational teacher. He really has got me wanting to stick at it

I never realised this Rick Young guy taught in Edinburgh. What sets him out from the rest of the pack so to speak?

Ray_li

I cant really say why he stands out. good at JKD helps and he is in mags alot.

P1Fanatic

My link works now:

http://www.p1f.co.uk/kaye2.wmv

Simon.

Ray_li

P1Fanatic

thats so funny

Ray

LG John

Seen that one before, side splittingly funny

NACRO

A point that seems to have been missed here- lots of people in the SE- especially London are now tooled up (I mean with handguns) and fighting skills while still usefull cannot combat a bullet at close range. Frightening really, while in the states my friend showed me a range of moves he'd been learning which incorporated his handgun -"tactical close quarters hand gun combat"!!! he called it. I can see the UK going down the same crazy route. Personally I'd say in a street fight the best tactic is avoidance pure and simple.

Many Humbug Returns

How do you all get into your street fights anyway? You must be looking for trouble. Lived in london for nigh on 20 years and never any aggro.

Bajie

My original reply got lost due to a dodgy connection at home but most of the questions I raised have been covered by PSL and Saxo.
All the usual statements are in this thread.
If a person attacks you with a weapon, lets call it a knife or bottle. Yes you will get cut when you block it, but you can block it! You will bleed, possibly get an artery severed. The difference being if you have trained in self defense you'll have a better chance of a correct block or evasive manoeuvre [assuming you haven't lost control yet].
Also take into account the mentality of the persons involved in the altercation. Will the martial artist stick to dojo etiquette in a life threatening situation. I'm not convinced he/she would.

Many Humbug Returns

Love the video btw PMSL, sums up the fallacy of martial farts beautifully.

ChrisB

Don't the Israeli Special Forces have their own close combat discipline? IIRC, it's meant to be as dirty as hell and has one target - drop your opponent so they won't get up again. Ever.

MarkO

Couldn't agree more, and was just about to post exactly the same thing. Sounds to me like you lot are a bunch of macho geezers who go out looking for trouble.

I'm 30, and have never so much as had a fierce argument on the street, let alone come to blows with anyone.

Closest I've had is a guy who nutted me, unprovoked, in Cardiff student union bar - but all the martial arts in the world wouldn't have prevented it, 'cos the incident came out of the blue with no warning - I'd not even exchanged words with the guy.

Getting into fights in the street just strikes me as kinda childish...

Shaolin

So much of it depends on the person, i have a friend who is some master of 3 or 4 styles of karate, but hes a nice bloke, weighs about 9 stone and looks like a right woofter, and you would think nothing of starting a fight with him, and chances are he would completely smash you into the ground.
The problem is......against someone who is the typical bonehead and gym steroid freak who weighs about 20 stone and is just a loon, and looks like you could smash him in the face with a cricket bat and you know he aint gonna feel it....martial arts mean nothing, because if he grabs you, you are not going to get away....even if you get a couple of hits in first, he aint gonna feel it.
Martial arts help, but against someone who is just a hard *astard and is bigger than you, you lose, simple as that.
But physical strength is only a minor part of it, if your strong in the mind and think you cant be beaten.....you have a big advantage.

damian666

ChrisB - its called Krav Maga, and its bloody excellent. Think about a martial art where there are no blocks. Its just attack attack attack - if your opponent tries to punch your head you break his arm, not block it away.

I'm still impressed with Krav after seeing it on TV about 5 years ago.

Its fookin hardcore!
Damian

RichS

As I started this thread, I suppose I'll add another 2 cents...

Just so as there is no misunderstanding, I am not macho in any way shape or form.

I don't get into street fights, and never have.
If I did find myself in the middle of something like that, I'd run like hell. Call me soft if you like, but I'd call me sensible thank you very much!

I have tried a few different martial arts in the past - more as a sport than anything else (and why not?), but I never stuck with any of them because I lacked discipline.
Even if I had stuck with martial arts training, I'm damn sure I'd still keep out of trouble.

Anyway, it was simply a daft question to stir up an interesting debate, which it clearly has.

How about this -
You're on your way home (alone) from the pub.
You see 5 neds kicking $hit out of a guy who's curled up on the ground.
You don't have any means of calling the police or raising alarm.
What do you do? - Leave them to it?

CarpetCleaner

I was up against someone posturing and decided he looked like he meant business,,,I turned around and walked away. There's no shame in it

I can street fight and it's a dirty business, no one plays by the rules, if it were like a western bar brawl fine but you never know what you are dealing with and getting glassed doesn't sound like fun

Avoid like the plague and fight only as a last resort

CarpetCleaner

one of the most effective deterrants was proven my a mate who is diabetic. He normally carrys a pen type looking thing for injecting insulin

one night he'd not got it and had regular syrnges. We got caught up in some hassles, my mate simple un capped one and said do you want me to ***** you with this

no more trouble

blueE9

last year me and my bro saw two youngish blokes on the deck getting repeatedly kicked in the head by another 2 in France on the way back from a club. of course you don't know the rights and wrongs but it went on so long it seemed a bit ****e so we ran back and got stuck in. seemed like the right thing at the time as one of the kickees (!) was ina bit of a **** state and needed some attention. could have made it worse of course so you never know. equally i had some 17/18 kids try to mug me and a mate recently on the way back from the boozer in London and it doesn't seem "childish" to lay in. Off the point of the thread title, sorry.

LG John

Shaolin, again we come back to the point about good and bad martial arts! Kuk Sool has over 3000 'techniques' and many of them are escape and/or counter techniques from being grabbed in many places, wrists, hair, clothing, etc, etc. I've done a fair bit of the wrist escape stuff and if done correctly (which isn't easy to master) they you will escape even if you are a 9 stone wuss being held by a 25 stone muscle machine. Kuk Sool, and I assume many other martial arts, are all about leverage and angles. You'd be amazed how fragile and inflexible the human body is when you bend parts of it in certain ways - also the pain of wrist and leg locks is unreal! All that said, even though I know some of them its very unlikely I'd use a technique in a street situation as I just couldn't do it well enough and quick enough to be effective. That takes lots of training, refinement and practise and I'd say you'd need to be a black belt before the techniques you've learned over the previous years are actually of much use to you.

I should clarify that I've never been in a street fight either. I've had people barge into me as they walk past on nights out but I don't rise to it even though I know they are just looking for a reaction.

ZIPPY

As its been said a lot already it depends on the circumstances and enviroment.
I've seen a doorman (Martial artist)destroy people outside the club in a nice big carpark but inside the club i've seen the same guy in restricted space get his a#se well and truly kicked as he didnt have any space to work in and the other guy was quite obviously well versed in close quarters fighting and he is no martial artist, but he is a (P#SS) artist.

Zippy

LG John

We also haven't discussed the 'luck' element here?! If you put me against my instructor I'd loose 99 fights out of 100 (badly!) But, there is that 1 fight where he looses his footing, slips or moves into my range just as I pull off my biggest fluke move ever. All things considered he's still human and a hard hit to the temple will still put him out cold. Nobody is invincible so in the 'circumstances' anybody could technically have anyone else if everything went right for them.

You see it in boxing all the time. Boxer A puts in a brilliant performance but boxer B lands one brilliant upper can and takes his head off.....game over

pslewis

Does that happen in Monkey World??

Pete

[Edited by pslewis - 7/8/2003 11:51:08 PM]

SiPie

Maybe the guy stole their scoobs, raped their wives etc etc ......

Personally I'd join in and make sure they finish him off

12 boots are better than 10 and best to be on the safe side

PS Joking but it's a tough one....best to call the rozzers as I don't believe for a second that you can't find a phone box or someone's house or yer mobile....and let them deal with it as morally challenging as that may be



[Edited by SiPie - 7/9/2003 12:11:59 PM]