Oh!! Bollocks!! Done speeding I think??
04 July 2003, 10:34 PM
#31
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Has anyone done this??:-
The Caution:-
"You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something you later rely on in court, Anything you do say may be given in evidence"
Your Response:-
“I do not recognise the significance of those words and I would like to exercise my legal right to refer to PACE – The Police and Criminal Evidence Act”.
This will cause two things to happen: -
They will have to hand you a copy of PACE, which is a very thick and complex document. Then you can sit in the back of the patrol car and read it for as long as you like and they can’t continue until you have finished.
They will probably treat you with great deal more respect.
NOTE
Not many patrol cars actually carry a copy of PACE so the first thing they will probably have to do is radio to the station and ask someone to bring them a copy!
I can imagine them having a field day with your car if you tried this on them, wouldn't you??
Pete
The Caution:-
"You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something you later rely on in court, Anything you do say may be given in evidence"
Your Response:-
“I do not recognise the significance of those words and I would like to exercise my legal right to refer to PACE – The Police and Criminal Evidence Act”.
This will cause two things to happen: -
They will have to hand you a copy of PACE, which is a very thick and complex document. Then you can sit in the back of the patrol car and read it for as long as you like and they can’t continue until you have finished.
They will probably treat you with great deal more respect.
NOTE
Not many patrol cars actually carry a copy of PACE so the first thing they will probably have to do is radio to the station and ask someone to bring them a copy!
I can imagine them having a field day with your car if you tried this on them, wouldn't you??
Pete
04 July 2003, 10:40 PM
#32
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Pete check out ukspeedtrap site & main site it's worth trying trust me 
Also my understanding is while they are trying to tie up the loos ends in the law if you get a NIP when yer sending it back sure fill in drivers details but dont sign it as there's nowhere in law that says you HAVE TO sign it! Then it's not admisable as evidense is my understanding so after a bit they let it lie Check out nonscooby related there are loads of further linsk & info in there from numerous similar threads
Fight the ticket m8 they rely on suckers just coughing & paying [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] dont do it even if it is the points that wood hurt 
Si
Also my understanding is while they are trying to tie up the loos ends in the law if you get a NIP when yer sending it back sure fill in drivers details but dont sign it as there's nowhere in law that says you HAVE TO sign it! Then it's not admisable as evidense is my understanding so after a bit they let it lie
Check out nonscooby related there are loads of further linsk & info in there from numerous similar threads Fight the ticket m8 they rely on suckers just coughing & paying [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] dont do it
even if it is the points that wood hurt Si
04 July 2003, 10:44 PM
#33
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They will have to hand you a copy of PACE, which is a very thick and complex document. Then you can sit in the back of the patrol car and read it for as long as you like and they can’t continue until you have finished. They will probably treat you with great deal more respect.
Pete, dude, you totally deserve to be banged to rights after your recent righteous ramblings on the topic, but if you were doing a clock 50mph, you were probably doing a "real" 45mph and I would say you are about 90% likely to have got away with it.
04 July 2003, 10:50 PM
#35
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WOW!You might get done for speeding!BIG DEAL!You should have kept your bl**dy eyes on the bl**dy road and the bl**dy road signs.What the hell were you doing getting distracted by strangers?What happened to the preacher PS who talks against speeding,hey?Now I know what you really drive.MX5,not Scoob!I always doubted it anyway.
And, hypocrite you are!
Now,you are always talking down about women,I will tell you your place!Tell your wife to cart you round.I bet she will drive better!And YOU,YOU stay on the passenger seat like a drowned bl**dy rat!
And, hypocrite you are!
Now,you are always talking down about women,I will tell you your place!Tell your wife to cart you round.I bet she will drive better!And YOU,YOU stay on the passenger seat like a drowned bl**dy rat!
04 July 2003, 10:58 PM
#36
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The NIP signing thing might be a loophole, it might not, there is no clear legal precedent. A judge has declared that the police may reasonably demand how the form is filled in, but it is not clear whether or not the police have the right to demand it is signed.
If you choose not to sign it, one of a number of things could happen; precedent will eventually be set in the courts, and when it does:
(1) if the precedent says the police can demand you sign it, you will be found guilty of failing to fill in the NIP, which can command a Ł1000 fine or (I think) about a Ł120 fine and 5 points.
(2) if the precedent says the police cannot demand you sign it, you get away free.
There is also option (3)
(3) the crown prosecution service decide to use your case to try and set precedent
Not sure if option (3) is a good or a bad thing! You could certainly make a name for yourself!
So, you see, the reason the "loophole" has not yet been closed is because nobody is sure whether it exists or not. Only time will tell.
PS To be honest, best take it on the chin, SP30 of 50mph in a 40mph will not affect you one little bit. I'd only consider the NIP signing thing personally if I was facing a ban.
If you choose not to sign it, one of a number of things could happen; precedent will eventually be set in the courts, and when it does:
(1) if the precedent says the police can demand you sign it, you will be found guilty of failing to fill in the NIP, which can command a Ł1000 fine or (I think) about a Ł120 fine and 5 points.
(2) if the precedent says the police cannot demand you sign it, you get away free.
There is also option (3)
(3) the crown prosecution service decide to use your case to try and set precedent
Not sure if option (3) is a good or a bad thing! You could certainly make a name for yourself!
So, you see, the reason the "loophole" has not yet been closed is because nobody is sure whether it exists or not. Only time will tell.
PS To be honest, best take it on the chin, SP30 of 50mph in a 40mph will not affect you one little bit. I'd only consider the NIP signing thing personally if I was facing a ban.
04 July 2003, 11:16 PM
#37
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As has been said elsewhere Pete, you might as well quit squealing until/unless you get an NIP through the door.
If your speedo said 50, you were probably accurately doing 43-47. As I believe ACPO guidlines are still to set the minimum trigger speed for a detector/camera prosecution at the prevailing speed limit +10% +3 mph (i.e. at least 47 in a 40), you probably got away with it.
Comments of other people about the irony of the whole thing are, I believe, rather accurate. Maybe next time you won't be quite so quick to preach?
If your speedo said 50, you were probably accurately doing 43-47. As I believe ACPO guidlines are still to set the minimum trigger speed for a detector/camera prosecution at the prevailing speed limit +10% +3 mph (i.e. at least 47 in a 40), you probably got away with it.
Comments of other people about the irony of the whole thing are, I believe, rather accurate. Maybe next time you won't be quite so quick to preach?
04 July 2003, 11:18 PM
#39
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Pete i wood try the letter etc & ask for all evidence as per my previous link it has worked for the proverbial "my friend" if u no wot i mean in a non wives tale stylee
Si
Si
04 July 2003, 11:48 PM
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Has anyone ACTUALLY done any of this stuff?? =PSLEWIS, SORRY CAN'T EDIT WON'T LET ME.
In the process at the moment sorta thing, i got sent a NIP 38 days after alleged offence, according to my solicitor thay have to send it to you within 14 days + 2 days posting = 16 days in total, so letter has been sent off explaining this, will let u know what happens later.............
In the process at the moment sorta thing, i got sent a NIP 38 days after alleged offence, according to my solicitor thay have to send it to you within 14 days + 2 days posting = 16 days in total, so letter has been sent off explaining this, will let u know what happens later.............
04 July 2003, 11:56 PM
#45
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yeah good luck with that my understanding is they only have to of made every effort to of sent it out within 14 days which they presumably will have a log or sumin for, if it's got lost in post etc or wotever afterwards maybe of little relevance
etc or wotever afterwards maybe of little relevance
05 July 2003, 12:01 AM
#46
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I must admit that my brother-in-law took the approach that he demanded the photo, looked at it and couldnt see who was driving so said it could have been him, his wife or son - please could they select one and present any evidence to PROVE that was the person driving.
He heard NOTHING back!!??
Do they not bother if it looks like a fight I wonder??
Pete
He heard NOTHING back!!??
Do they not bother if it looks like a fight I wonder??
Pete
05 July 2003, 12:01 AM
#47
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Shut up PS!Go on,make your wife a cup of tea!Know your place!!
Tell you what,I love having tussle with you coz L'OReal,You are worth it!!
By the way,CHILL!! Until the speeding offence letter arrives.I know you like scandals,but you might have got away.
Tell you what,I love having tussle with you coz L'OReal,You are worth it!!
By the way,CHILL!! Until the speeding offence letter arrives.I know you like scandals,but you might have got away.
05 July 2003, 12:08 AM
#49
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Pete........You're a legend! I wish I could wind people up as much as you do!! It is certainly a talent and one that would be appreciated by the lads at any local you could drag your wheel chair and drip to Keep up the good work fella......
PS any chance of you leaving me your Impreza in your will??
It is certainly a talent and one that would be appreciated by the lads at any local you could drag your wheel chair and drip to Keep up the good work fella...... PS any chance of you leaving me your Impreza in your will??
05 July 2003, 12:12 AM
#50
Scooby Regular
The Impreza will be donated to raise funds for the SISI club .... but thats another story, for another night!!
Glad I am appreciated!!
The mods leave me alone these days, have I lost my street cred??
Pete
Glad I am appreciated!!
The mods leave me alone these days, have I lost my street cred??
Pete
05 July 2003, 12:36 AM
#51
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stop trying to squirm out of it, u did the deed now take the punishment like a man
of course u shouldnt be fined, but everybody else should?
ironic
get a hold of yourself and give yourself a good long shake pmsl
of course u shouldnt be fined, but everybody else should?
ironic
get a hold of yourself and give yourself a good long shake pmsl
05 July 2003, 07:39 AM
#52
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Amusing quotes from another recent thread on the subject
Time to sell the cars and collect a bus pass now, perhaps?
Hmmmmmmmm, interesting hearing people pleading that their illegal speeding is somehow justified!!
Speeding is BAD driving
Its the sole realm of those who cannot drive properly
Its the sole realm of those who cannot drive properly
They do NOT take your money, you donkeys!!
YOU GIVE THEM IT by SPEEDING!!!!
If you didn't speed the police wouldn't get your money - its pretty simple logic even for the mentally challenged!!
YOU GIVE THEM IT by SPEEDING!!!!
If you didn't speed the police wouldn't get your money - its pretty simple logic even for the mentally challenged!!
05 July 2003, 09:23 AM
#53
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PSLewis, you have mail,
as a note, there is yet to be a single prosecution on the strength of photographic evidence because our *friends* in Brussels are not sure its not an infringement of human rights AFAIK.
What if its not your wife in the passenger seat
a divorce could ensue,
what if its at quarter to three when you dont leave work til four
you get the picture,
As the rest have said, brushing aside the irony of the matter, dont moan til the doormat has an NIP on it...
As for 14 days plus 2 HHhhhmmmmm.
there are many ways that the police can exceed this.
As for asking for a copy of PACE HHhhhmmmmm
you could end up being kept for ages and ages til you get the oppurtunity to read it all (in a cell overnight?), you might also *fall dowmn the stairs* on the way to said cell.
If you request the photo evidence to say that you will need it to identify the driver, you do not get EOT AFAIK and you have to respond within 28days, you may try to ask the magistrate to take this into account with the charge of failing to supply the driver details under S172 of the road traffic act but the charge of speeding will still apply. There are things that can be done, but until the NIP comes through the post, theres no point in speculating...
Hope this hasnt bored you or not been done too many times before
Andy......
as a note, there is yet to be a single prosecution on the strength of photographic evidence because our *friends* in Brussels are not sure its not an infringement of human rights AFAIK.
What if its not your wife in the passenger seat
a divorce could ensue,
what if its at quarter to three when you dont leave work til four
you get the picture,
As the rest have said, brushing aside the irony of the matter, dont moan til the doormat has an NIP on it...
As for 14 days plus 2 HHhhhmmmmm.
there are many ways that the police can exceed this.
As for asking for a copy of PACE HHhhhmmmmm
you could end up being kept for ages and ages til you get the oppurtunity to read it all (in a cell overnight?), you might also *fall dowmn the stairs* on the way to said cell.
If you request the photo evidence to say that you will need it to identify the driver, you do not get EOT AFAIK and you have to respond within 28days, you may try to ask the magistrate to take this into account with the charge of failing to supply the driver details under S172 of the road traffic act but the charge of speeding will still apply. There are things that can be done, but until the NIP comes through the post, theres no point in speculating...
Hope this hasnt bored you or not been done too many times before
Andy......
05 July 2003, 10:47 AM
#54
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QUOTE from "Law on the web"
When should you get one?
The following offences require (under Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 - you'll find the whole Act here) that you be given notice of the fact that you may be prosecuted:-
a) Dangerous Driving
b) Careless & Inconsiderate driving
c) Leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place
d) Dangerous cycling
e) Careless & Inconsiderate cycling
f) Failing to conform with the indication of a police officer when directing traffic
g) Failing to comply with a traffic sign
h) Exceeding temporary speed restrictions imposed by s 14 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
i) Exceeding speed restrictions on a special road
j) Exceeding temporary speed limit imposed by order
k) Speeding offences generally
What form must the notice take?
It can be :-
a) given verbally at the time of the offence, or
b) by a summons being served on the offender within 14 days of commission of the offence, or
c) a notice of intended prosecution, specifying the nature of the offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, must be served on the offender, or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence, within 14 days of the offence.
These provisions are deemed to have been complied with unless or until the contrary has been proved (ie you will have to raise it).
If you have not been given the notice within 14 days (ignoring the day of the offence) then they cannot proceed against you.
hhmmmmm 14 days, ok i was wrong its 15.
When should you get one?
The following offences require (under Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 - you'll find the whole Act here) that you be given notice of the fact that you may be prosecuted:-
a) Dangerous Driving
b) Careless & Inconsiderate driving
c) Leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place
d) Dangerous cycling
e) Careless & Inconsiderate cycling
f) Failing to conform with the indication of a police officer when directing traffic
g) Failing to comply with a traffic sign
h) Exceeding temporary speed restrictions imposed by s 14 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
i) Exceeding speed restrictions on a special road
j) Exceeding temporary speed limit imposed by order
k) Speeding offences generally
What form must the notice take?
It can be :-
a) given verbally at the time of the offence, or
b) by a summons being served on the offender within 14 days of commission of the offence, or
c) a notice of intended prosecution, specifying the nature of the offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, must be served on the offender, or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence, within 14 days of the offence.
These provisions are deemed to have been complied with unless or until the contrary has been proved (ie you will have to raise it).
If you have not been given the notice within 14 days (ignoring the day of the offence) then they cannot proceed against you.
hhmmmmm 14 days, ok i was wrong its 15.
05 July 2003, 11:52 AM
#55
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Well Pete, you have been caught out twice, once for speeding as you say and also by Dracoro for being a hypochrite. You must be losing your touch I'm afraid. No chance of an excuse of course, you were driving too fast as you accused others of doing and you even got got caught with another motorist trying to warn you! Just imagine the extra injuries you would have caused to someone if you hit them, as you were telling everyone else on this Net.
Instead of insulting the coppers who where doing the job they were ordered to do as part of their remit, why don't you just admit that you screwed it for once and and were caught out like so many of the rest of us. Anyone can make a stupid mistake!
At least it was not in a populated area otherwise you would really be due some flak. Trouble is, they do get some wide open type roads with slow speed limits now, that is down to local councils egged on by your darling New Labour.
Hope they missed you with the camera anyway.
Les
Instead of insulting the coppers who where doing the job they were ordered to do as part of their remit, why don't you just admit that you screwed it for once and and were caught out like so many of the rest of us. Anyone can make a stupid mistake!
At least it was not in a populated area otherwise you would really be due some flak. Trouble is, they do get some wide open type roads with slow speed limits now, that is down to local councils egged on by your darling New Labour.
Hope they missed you with the camera anyway.
Les
05 July 2003, 12:04 PM
#56
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PSLEWIS
If they try to do you state that you were unaware of the change in speed limit because you were recklessly BLINDED and distracted by a motorist travelling in the opposite direction. Thus you spotted the speed limit too late. When you realised you were travelling too fast you immediately took action to reduce your speed.
Probably b*ll*cks but I chuckled when I thought of it.
Vindaloo.
If they try to do you state that you were unaware of the change in speed limit because you were recklessly BLINDED and distracted by a motorist travelling in the opposite direction. Thus you spotted the speed limit too late. When you realised you were travelling too fast you immediately took action to reduce your speed.
Probably b*ll*cks but I chuckled when I thought of it.
Vindaloo.
05 July 2003, 12:41 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
Thanks for the helpful e-mails and the support shown and, yes, the hypocrite jibes ........... I deserve them!!
The road is long and straight and was 60mph - now its 40mph ...... the ONLY thing there is moving about are cows, REALLY!!!
Do you think my clean driving record whilst fighting in my tank in Africa with Monty will help me avoid a fine?? .... I could say that I had a 'Flash-back' and thought the officers hiding in the bushes were aiming an Anti-Tank Weapon at me???!!!
It 'Could' work!!??
Pete
The road is long and straight and was 60mph - now its 40mph ...... the ONLY thing there is moving about are cows, REALLY!!!
Do you think my clean driving record whilst fighting in my tank in Africa with Monty will help me avoid a fine?? .... I could say that I had a 'Flash-back' and thought the officers hiding in the bushes were aiming an Anti-Tank Weapon at me???!!!
It 'Could' work!!??
Pete
05 July 2003, 01:04 PM
#58
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Bad luck Pete.........a mate of mine was done recently in very similair cirumstances.11 mph over the limit on a very STRAIGHT,QUIET country road that leads only to the local golf course.
He's as straight as they come and ended up with three points and a fine.Not a happy fella.
IF you get done,then i'm afraid you'll just have to bend over and take it,......but it still stinks.
unless u like that sort of thing 