davyboy

SB I am only writing the truth

I have a mate with a new M3 and he could not believe how fast my slow 250 bhp car could get round Beford - Nor could the guy in the 2002 C4S and the P1 - they both had the blue flag waved at them!

There is nothing like turning up or a track day with a dirty car and dirty manky corroded wheels and owning the track - what a buzz! and I still think I suck as a driver!

The only car I had to move out the way for was a GT2
, and he then spun it right in front of me! However he can afford a £115000 car and still rag the **** out of it on track.....innit!

Respect the import lager.

LG John

Cupra, if you were in 3rd gear how do you know he wasn't in 4th? I've seen times when I've been half in the mood to play and not downshifted when I should have - tend to do this against hot-hatches some times.

Cupraman

I'll give up. It was a dream. End of thread.

Phil M

Hes come to his sences, finally!

sti-steve

Hi folks! - this is my first ever posting - Wow!

OK newbie bit over with, thought I'd put in my tuppence worth here for starters... My old man has an E46 M3, I have an STi7-PPP, he's driven mine, I've not driven his (insurance...) He reckons I have the outright edge on performance (subjective, I know) but I'm not sure I would agree. To get the best (in a straight line) out of the M3, you have to rev the nuts off it - max power at 7900rpm, something many M3 owners, my old man included unfortunately, are not always willing to do without good reason. M3 engines have a history of going 'Bang' too! Accessibility to the performance of a PPP'd 7 or 8 is much better, 299lb ft @ 4000 rpm (..supposedly!!) vs 269lb ft @ 5300rpm (I think), so in terms of drag racing (original thread) the scooby does hold the initial advantage. Hence perhaps the initial gain. Ultimately though, I would have to side with SaxoBoy, in a straight line at least, my opinion is that the M3 would win...

Steve.

nisr227

just to add my 2pence worth on the Pulsar comment.....who has a standard puslar? (mines RR'd at nearly 300)...and who goes by 0-60 figures?

.....in the real world its "through 60-100" figures that count on a straight road within sensible speeds, and thats thrashing the car with slamming gearchanges to get back on the power as quick as possible, and you need a few seconds difference to show up big time on the road.

LG John

Don't be disheartened Cupraman all I'm saying is he was probably changing up a little early and that makes all the difference. If peak power really is at 7900rpm then you'd have to rev hell out of it and to me that isn't a problem but to others it is. A scooby doesn't need to be rev up so much and with the turbo kick can 'feel' faster than similar n/a's.

To give you an idea of how much of a difference slightly mistiming gearchanges, etc can make I recently met up with a CTR driver and a few days later a cup driver. The CTR I'd spank by 6+ car lengths from 20-... but I noticed the driver let it pop out of vtec every now and again and wasn't 100% determined to extract every last bit of power! The Cup on the other hand was driven to within a bawhair of the red line and as such I could only just pull away from it, say 2 car lengths! Search anywhere on the net and you'll see that the Cup and CTR are near identical for performance when both thrashed so that little bit of mechanical sympathy/less committment made a difference of 2-4 car lengths!

pilkster

Sorry boys new to all this, just purchased MY97 scoob this week, what the hell does PPP mean. Please dont laugh at me??!!??

LG John

Prodrive Performance Pack - a dealer fit option and fairly expensive at that! I though that the PPP on the classic shape sucked but I've heard nothing but rave reviews about PPP on the STI 7 and 8 so it looks like prodrive got their finger out

sg72

Kenny.
Time for bed.

This is turning out to be another Classic .I got slagged threads.

BTW. I see where your coming from.

Its just .....Well to many variables.(I hate statistics)

DJB

I think that, from memory, the STi8 (with PPP) went round the Top Gear track in 1.29. The M3, I think, went round in 1.31. Forget 0-100 or 0-60 figures, this is the sort of figure which counts.

D.

LG John

I've never been convinced by track times either You'd have to be am AMAZING driver to post your best possible time lap after lap after lap. A 1 second mistake in either car would screw the stats.

Sg, fair point - I am pretty tired now and TV is boring

( R6 CDW )

not only thing thats boring!

I HATE SAXO BOY

HAVE TO AGREE HE IS A VTS LOVING PR**K

sg72

R6

Used to have an R6.

Wrote it off. Boring? I think not....

Am I barking up wrong tree?

sg72

TO IHSB.

Re registered have we?

Does the key poke through my shirt?

Gidney&Knowlesy

Here you go all relevant details:

343 bhp at 7,900 rpm - a specific output of 105 bhp per litre
365Nm of torque at 4,900 rpm
0-62 sprint in just 5.2 seconds

Dimensions


Wheelbase 2,725

Vehicle length 4,492

Vehicle width 1,780

Vehicle height 1,372

Track, front 1,508

Track, rear 1,525




Performance Weight


Drag (cw) 0.33

Top speed (mph) 155

Acceleration 0-62 mph (sec) 5.2

Acceleration 50-75 mph in 4th (sec) 5.3


Unladen (EU) 1,570

Max permissible 2,000

Permitted load 505

Permitted axle load, front/rear 970/1140




Engine Wheels


Cylinders/valves 6/4

Capacity cml 3,246

Stroke/Bore (mm) 91.0/87.0

Max output (kW/bhp/rpm) 252/343/7900

Max torque (Nm/rpm) 365/4,900


Tyre size front 225/45 ZR18

Tyre size rear 255/45 ZR18



Wheel size front 8J x 18

Wheel size rear 9J x18




Fuel consumption
Imperial Metric

Urban (mpg) 15.9

Extra-urban (mpg) 33.6

Combined (mpg) 23.7


Urban (ltr/100km) 17.8

Extra-urban (ltr/100km) 8.4

Combined (ltr/100km) 11.9



CO2 emissions (g/km) 287

Tank capacity (ltr) 63

forest172

Just to add my 2 pence worth, isn`t the M3 CSL being released because BMW are aware that cars like a £27000 Scooby are quicker around a track? I think that`s what Clackson said.

ARRON BIRD

I cant believe this post is 6 pages long!!!!
I have had an E46 M3 and done a track day in the middle of a wet winter.
I think a few Scoobie tw3ts were a little embarrased
I saw 175 on the speedo on a couple of occasions ( on a closed road with no traffic of course )
Subaru`s are very easy cars to drive fast thats very clear to see...but get a little ragged and it takes a little skill to keep them on the straight and narrow ( I should know having crashed one aswell 00
into Tesco`s fence at Huntingdon
M3`s require much more skill to get the best out of .
Most of you w3ankers wouldnt be able to drive a 343bhp rear wheel drive car in a straight line let alone round the twisties.
I do still prefer the STI on a day to day basis tho as to me it is more fun and not loosing as much money as the M3 would be by now as the buble has seriously burst on their residuals.




I am his brother and i had one tooooooo.. I wasted my fuel racing Cerberras Not Jap Crap..

Long live the over payed


Ne also had an Evo 5 and knows a little about driving shopping trolleys!!!

Andy-pay

in summary then -

bloke beats M3...tells Scoobynet....some people take offence at this....tell him "the guy was in 4th" or "wasnt trying" (even though they werent there)......top gear have shown an STi8PPPcan beat an M3 (sort of helps the argument)....discussion goes of into VTS/Cup cars (WTF??)....M3 owners try to prove M3's are better by posting various bloody specs/figures.....remember 'power is nothing without control'......BUT

the guy beat the M3 anyway so TOUGH **** TO M3 OWNERS.

just because they never get let out of junctions or think they can push into traffic cues (typical BMW driver) they accuse Subaru drivers of driving 'jap crap' and being big kids.

well, M3's can be beat, so there!

Phil M

Whoever re registered with i hate saxo boy really needs to get out more, just because you can't hold onto your side of a debate you go for personal insults.. ******* t0sser!

Phil M

I'm pretty sure this isn't the only reason why BMW are releasing the CSL...

I also like to add that in EVO car of the year 2 years ago? the M3 finished second only to the Zonda, this beat the Lambo, Tamora, And STI7 PPP.. How can you slate it after a performance like that.

Andy-pay

EVO mag also rated a Golf R32 above a WRX recently - not because it performed better, they felt it was 'more desirable'

they even said that the WRX was the 'real deal in terms of on road ability'

so thats EVO mag for you!

LG John

I didn't take offense I drive a scooby for crying out loud! I'd love to think our current top of the line car (i.e. UK STI 8 with PPP) could out accelerate an M3 in a motorway scenerio but I just don't believe that to be the case. I still think it would be close but the M3 if driven flat out should ease away IMHO. All I've done is use various examples and situations to try and examplify that belief - this is key to good debate. Thats all this thread has ever been to me, good debate. My pulse hasn't left resting rate but it seems some people have become really p1ssed off - sorry but I think if you reflect hard enough you'll realise thats pretty childish!

For someone to go to the trouble of actually registering a new name is really sad

But yes, I do love VTS's and yes I sometimes can be a ***** (can't we all?). I love the VTS because I fully researched it before buying it and am pleased to say I got it right, I then fully researched the scooby and I'm pleased to say I got that right too. But just because I moved up doesn't suddenly make the Saxo a cr@p car! Similarly if I got an M3/porka next that wouldn't make the scooby a cr@p car. There is nothing wrong with ensuring you get a car that perfectly meets your needs and right now I'm going through that process again. I know for a fact some peeps will be getting hacked off with my constant swithering between CTRs/CUPs/Golfs/etc but by gathering as much fact and opinion on these cars as I can I'll hopefully get it right again.

So, I did love my VTS, I do love scooby, I'd love an M3 and I'll hopefully love my next car whatever that may be You could say I'm enthusiastic

Phil M

They said it was as good and won because it was more desirable, exactly what the M3 is over an STI8, get saving your pennies ladies.. your only having a dig because you can't afford it.

Chins

Great thread

I tend to agree with EVO mag on the R32 vs std WRX. Theres also in not much in it when it comes to the drive.

I also prefer the M3 over the STI. Arron points to depreciation, but the Scooby is not bullet proof. I nearly bought a one year old M3 instead of the STI.

Jonathan

5 Type R

Had a bit of fun with a brand new M3 cabrio
last week.(40-120ish range)

Its a fast car ......that taken.........
busy road conditions prevented me from driving as dangerously as he was (obviously showing off his new toy to the passengers), however when he had enough room to let loose, I went after him and could have gone around him through 3,4 & 5th

He was 4 up and me 3 up, so not exactly fair, but the gearing of a Type R in this range and 250@ wheels/310lbft, was far too much for the german marque.

BlueBlood

It's still Friday night for me...

M3 would never Win with this



[Edited by BlueBlood - 6/28/2003 1:37:04 PM]

Toonman1

"in summary then"

Just a typical Scoobynet thread...

Gidney&Knowlesy

I got beaten by an M3 Coupe........

Roof off in under 30 seconds.......

Errr I'm still struggling to get mine off