University or not?
17 June 2003, 01:37 PM
#31
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I fully believe a degree is only really helpful in certain proffesions. A lot of the "must have some degree but we dont care what degree" jobs can be gained with out a degree, there are just trying to screen candidates.
I left school at 16 with some GCSE's and never looked back. I work in IT, I don't appear to be disadvantaged against my graduate colleagues, In fact I am in a better possion having gained 3 years more work experience than my peers.
I don't believe there is any point in going to uni unless you know the job you want to do at the end of the degree and that job requires a graduate.
Cheers
Alec
I left school at 16 with some GCSE's and never looked back. I work in IT, I don't appear to be disadvantaged against my graduate colleagues, In fact I am in a better possion having gained 3 years more work experience than my peers.
I don't believe there is any point in going to uni unless you know the job you want to do at the end of the degree and that job requires a graduate.
Cheers
Alec
17 June 2003, 02:06 PM
#32
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Sorry to any 'careers advisors' reading this, but in my experience they are total and utter pants!!! One so called careers advisor told me 'You either go to uni or work in Tesco for the rest of your life'. ooh helpful.NOT.
17 June 2003, 05:49 PM
#33
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I personally say don't go.
I left school at 16 and started straight away in IT and have not looked back. I thought about uni etc. but knew that I would either drop out or would hate it and then I would have wasted 3 years.
I am in a far better position now than a degree educated person in my role as I have had more experience, and in the time that you are working you pickup some of the things that you would have learnt during you uni course.
I am only 21 and have my own house just outside Brighton. If I went to Uni, I’d still be living at home with mum and dad and there is no way I could afford to buy a house, let alone sort out my debts
If you want to spend 3 years, ********, drinking, sleeping then go to Uni, if you wanna get on the fast track then start work earlier.
Just my thoughts
Darren
I left school at 16 and started straight away in IT and have not looked back. I thought about uni etc. but knew that I would either drop out or would hate it and then I would have wasted 3 years.
I am in a far better position now than a degree educated person in my role as I have had more experience, and in the time that you are working you pickup some of the things that you would have learnt during you uni course.
I am only 21 and have my own house just outside Brighton. If I went to Uni, I’d still be living at home with mum and dad and there is no way I could afford to buy a house, let alone sort out my debts
If you want to spend 3 years, ********, drinking, sleeping then go to Uni, if you wanna get on the fast track then start work earlier.
Just my thoughts
Darren
17 June 2003, 06:48 PM
#35
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I didn't go and I don't regret it in the respect that it certainly hasn't affected my earning ability. I do sometimes miss the fact that I didn't have 3 or 4 years of constant ****-ups like wot my educated mates did.
17 June 2003, 06:56 PM
#36
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What works for one person may not work for another. IMHO, these days you need a degree just to be at the same level as the rest of the crowd, let alone a cut above.
The worst thing you could do is not do it now, and regret it later. Sure, you can go back as a mature student in your 30s or 40s but it just isn't the same.
If you're sure you're not going to regret it, then don't go. But as somebody else pointed out, you never get job ads that say "graduates need not apply". Well you might do, but they're generally for cleaners and that...
[OTOH I did see an advert in a property letting agent in Canterbury that said "no dogs or students"
]
[Edited by carl - 6/17/2003 6:57:05 PM]
The worst thing you could do is not do it now, and regret it later. Sure, you can go back as a mature student in your 30s or 40s but it just isn't the same.
If you're sure you're not going to regret it, then don't go. But as somebody else pointed out, you never get job ads that say "graduates need not apply". Well you might do, but they're generally for cleaners and that...
[OTOH I did see an advert in a property letting agent in Canterbury that said "no dogs or students"
][Edited by carl - 6/17/2003 6:57:05 PM]
17 June 2003, 07:17 PM
#37
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The fact im thinking about it alot means that i probably will regret it if i don't go, can always drop outif i've made the wrong decision i suppose............
17 June 2003, 07:35 PM
#38
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'On the job training' is all well and good but you do a lot of stuff at uni that you'll never learn working. e.g. One of my units was artificial intelligence, found it fascinating and although it's unlikely to help me career wise, it's good to learn about these things. You'll also learn the theory and background of stuff too as well as 'how to learn' through research etc.
In addition, some units are like training courses and people 'on the job' do these all the time. Incidentally, in my field, most the crap programmers (there are a lot!) are the ones who have not learnt to program properly and have 'self-trained' or have done non computing courses. There are of course some good programmers that haven't done computing courses/are self taught etc. and all credit to them but they are rare!
Whether a degree is useful for your career depends a lot on what career you want. I did Computer Science which was very useful and I'd never get the job that I have now without it.
In addition, you can pick up valuable social skills etc. mainly how to drink shedloads One art I mastered quite early on but now I have a beer belly 
Whether uni is your cup of tea, only you can know. I (and others) can only give our perspective.
[Edited by Dracoro - 6/17/2003 7:38:50 PM]
In addition, some units are like training courses and people 'on the job' do these all the time. Incidentally, in my field, most the crap programmers (there are a lot!) are the ones who have not learnt to program properly and have 'self-trained' or have done non computing courses. There are of course some good programmers that haven't done computing courses/are self taught etc. and all credit to them but they are rare!
Whether a degree is useful for your career depends a lot on what career you want. I did Computer Science which was very useful and I'd never get the job that I have now without it.
In addition, you can pick up valuable social skills etc. mainly how to drink shedloads
One art I mastered quite early on but now I have a beer belly Whether uni is your cup of tea, only you can know. I (and others) can only give our perspective.
[Edited by Dracoro - 6/17/2003 7:38:50 PM]
17 June 2003, 07:39 PM
#39
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Thanks for all the comments
Anyone else been to the University of Surrey btw?
and Bravo, you went to university, would you have gone if you'd known what it was like? *Gotta put your hindsight head on*
[Edited by weapon69 - 6/17/2003 7:49:07 PM]
Anyone else been to the University of Surrey btw?
and Bravo, you went to university, would you have gone if you'd known what it was like? *Gotta put your hindsight head on*
[Edited by weapon69 - 6/17/2003 7:49:07 PM]
17 June 2003, 07:52 PM
#40
Fraid i must agree with the majority about giving uni a miss unlessyou want to be doctor solicitor etc
if you are not sure what you want uni would be a extended holiday of drinking s**ging etc ( which is VERY TEMPTING )
a lot of my friends went to uni earn a lot less than me with only 4 CSEs and 4 totally irelevent O Levels and you then have to catch up on 3-5 years salery 40-70K also the way house prices are rising it you put off for 5 years you will NEVER get on the ladder when my mates came out of uni i had 6 years on the housing market by then one of my mates now has a 90K mortage while i have a 300K house paid for .
Get a job and then buy a house ASAP and get a sexy female nurse as a lodger to pay you rent which helps your morgage .
if you are not sure what you want uni would be a extended holiday of drinking s**ging etc ( which is VERY TEMPTING )
a lot of my friends went to uni earn a lot less than me with only 4 CSEs and 4 totally irelevent O Levels and you then have to catch up on 3-5 years salery 40-70K also the way house prices are rising it you put off for 5 years you will NEVER get on the ladder when my mates came out of uni i had 6 years on the housing market by then one of my mates now has a 90K mortage while i have a 300K house paid for .
Get a job and then buy a house ASAP and get a sexy female nurse as a lodger to pay you rent which helps your morgage .
17 June 2003, 08:49 PM
#42
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In my experience, a couple of lucky breaks can make up for 3-4 years of university. From a career perspective anyway.
Me? Well I went for a year, loved it, gave up the course (it was an IT course about zero relevance to IT in the real world)and got a proper job (earning crappy money, but one I enjoyed and found fulfilling). A couple of decent breaks later (and you can make these yourself you know!) and I'm in an even better (in all respects) job that I still enjoy on a day-to-day basis, but also gives me time to pursue the other things in life I want such as family.
Edited to add that one of the main things I leanred during my year was not to go to Uni simply to avoid having to get on with life and get going with a career.
Cheers
Joolz
[Edited by jbryant - 6/17/2003 8:53:57 PM]
Me? Well I went for a year, loved it, gave up the course (it was an IT course about zero relevance to IT in the real world)and got a proper job (earning crappy money, but one I enjoyed and found fulfilling). A couple of decent breaks later (and you can make these yourself you know!) and I'm in an even better (in all respects) job that I still enjoy on a day-to-day basis, but also gives me time to pursue the other things in life I want such as family.
Edited to add that one of the main things I leanred during my year was not to go to Uni simply to avoid having to get on with life and get going with a career.
Cheers
Joolz
[Edited by jbryant - 6/17/2003 8:53:57 PM]
17 June 2003, 10:09 PM
#43
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You must remember that Scoobynet isn't a good cross-section of society, too.
I suggest the following:
1) A large proportion of people on here own or have owned a Scoob
2) You need to be earning a decent amount of money to earn a Scoob
3) Therefore, the people who are answering this have either worked their way into or lucked into decent paying jobs
As you can see, this wouldn't trap all eventualities. Consider a hypothetical situation where all people with degrees get decent jobs, and only 10% of people without get decent jobs. Those without degrees will be part of the 10%, but you'd never know about the other 90%
I suggest the following:
1) A large proportion of people on here own or have owned a Scoob
2) You need to be earning a decent amount of money to earn a Scoob
3) Therefore, the people who are answering this have either worked their way into or lucked into decent paying jobs
As you can see, this wouldn't trap all eventualities. Consider a hypothetical situation where all people with degrees get decent jobs, and only 10% of people without get decent jobs. Those without degrees will be part of the 10%, but you'd never know about the other 90%
17 June 2003, 10:15 PM
#44
Didn't go to Uni because of abysmal A level results. Don't think that it affected my earning power that much, but a degree would have opened doors earlier or wider.
After leaving school did some temping and somehow ended up in The City first as a messenger then as clerical.
Worked my way up from there and was earning over 100k p.a. when I quit my job a few years ago at the ripe old age of 32 to go and do lots of travelling, take full-time MBA and get married. For me a Masters means more job security than a great CV alone. It is never to late to get yourself that education!
After leaving school did some temping and somehow ended up in The City first as a messenger then as clerical.
Worked my way up from there and was earning over 100k p.a. when I quit my job a few years ago at the ripe old age of 32 to go and do lots of travelling, take full-time MBA and get married. For me a Masters means more job security than a great CV alone. It is never to late to get yourself that education!
18 June 2003, 04:09 PM
#46
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**** off I have a life
I did HND Computer studies and joined the Army. Worked in that great oxymoron Military Intellegence for 13 years or so. Saw the world and got shot.
I am now a Supply Chain Manager for a multinational and have done a shed more travelling and have nearly been shot several more times. < Note to self, avoid guns >.
My brother is a PhD in History and a department head at a Uni. He can't change a plug and leads a sad lonely existence devoid of friends and female company, but high on self abuse.
There is no right or wrong raod, just your road.
I did HND Computer studies and joined the Army. Worked in that great oxymoron Military Intellegence for 13 years or so. Saw the world and got shot.
I am now a Supply Chain Manager for a multinational and have done a shed more travelling and have nearly been shot several more times. < Note to self, avoid guns >.
My brother is a PhD in History and a department head at a Uni. He can't change a plug and leads a sad lonely existence devoid of friends and female company, but high on self abuse.
There is no right or wrong raod, just your road.
18 June 2003, 04:17 PM
#47
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There's a simple answer to this. On no account go and get a degree.
That way, there'll be even fewer of us properly-educated peeps out there, so when companies want to employ properly trained and educated staff there'll be more competition for us, and they'll have to pay us more.
That way, there'll be even fewer of us properly-educated peeps out there, so when companies want to employ properly trained and educated staff there'll be more competition for us, and they'll have to pay us more.
18 June 2003, 04:21 PM
#48
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Nice plan Mark!
Personally, i couldn't have got the jobs i have within banking without a degree, so i'm very glad i went. Personally, i think it was three of the best years of my life. If you have the chance - do it, in my opinion.
Personally, i couldn't have got the jobs i have within banking without a degree, so i'm very glad i went. Personally, i think it was three of the best years of my life. If you have the chance - do it, in my opinion.
18 June 2003, 10:09 PM
#49
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Lets put it this way mate. I have a degree in IT, and when I get into a position to hire someone for an IT place I wont be specifying a degree is needed. When you interview someone you know if someone can do the job you ask, and a few questions later can determine if they have the ability to pick things up etc...
In IT, Uni doesnt really teach you skills that prove useful in the "real" world, you tend to go into a job after Uni based on the stuff you "faff" with during your time there.
However, Uni does teach you a good background in your field that you possibly wouldnt take the time to think about should you dive straight into a certain job.
HTH
~Jules
In IT, Uni doesnt really teach you skills that prove useful in the "real" world, you tend to go into a job after Uni based on the stuff you "faff" with during your time there.
However, Uni does teach you a good background in your field that you possibly wouldnt take the time to think about should you dive straight into a certain job.
HTH
~Jules
18 June 2003, 10:17 PM
#50
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I get into a position to hire someone for an IT place I wont be specifying a degree is needed
There seems to be a lot of misconception that career in IT means you must have an IT degree, then a load of people complaining that IT degrees aren't relevant. Have you thought that a better thing to do might be a degree in engineering, physics or maths? All good grounding for IT careers, and good grounding for a lot of other stuff too.
Just seems to me that there's this expectation of:
CompSci GSCE->CompSci A Level->CompSci degree->career in IT
Another thought -- if you employ someone in their 40s or 50s they will have been educated when it wasn't common to go to university. Now nearly everyone goes, so if you don't it's a case of "odd one out".
[Edited by carl - 6/18/2003 10:30:44 PM]
18 June 2003, 10:35 PM
#51
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I've hired people before, and always knocked a few grand off how much I'm prepared to pay them if they haven't got a degree. It just shows a certain commitment, IMHO.
But if they were the same age, and the non-uni bod had more exp I wouldnt specifically "punish" them for not going to Uni by giving them less money.
In the end, its all down to how you put yourself across on your CV and in the interview.
~Jules
18 June 2003, 10:37 PM
#52
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Gah, you edited :P
So you would pay a grad fresh out of uni with no exp more than a worker in the field you're hiring in who has 3+ years of exp?
~Jules
but I certainly wouldn't pay a 23-year old non-grad the same as I would a grad.
~Jules
18 June 2003, 10:43 PM
#53
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I guess what I'm trying to say in all this is, dont expect to be handed a job on a golden platter if you have a degree.
I know people that have got Masters who I wouldnt give a second thought about if they came for an interview. If you dont know what you're talking about, you will be spotted a mile off by a good interviewer.
On the other hand, a Uni person (in certain degree fields) "usually" means they have the ability to learn, absorb, and gather information themselves.
This probably doesnt help much in the grand scheme of things
~Jules
I know people that have got Masters who I wouldnt give a second thought about if they came for an interview. If you dont know what you're talking about, you will be spotted a mile off by a good interviewer.
On the other hand, a Uni person (in certain degree fields) "usually" means they have the ability to learn, absorb, and gather information themselves.
This probably doesnt help much in the grand scheme of things
~Jules
19 June 2003, 01:05 AM
#54
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I would say on the degree front though the subject of your degree isn't that relevant depending on what career you choose. I'm in IT and I've got a Busniness degree that has no part to play in what I do. On top of that there was no real IT learning on the business degee that has helped me have the career that I have now. Its more a case you have a degree on your CV, not whats its in that counts.
I still think experience is far more important though. Someone who has a degree and an MCSE for example and no experience is not as an attractive applicant as someone who has 2+ years IT experience and no degree or MCSE IMHO.
If I was given the choice now of going straight into an IT job at 18 on a really low salary or going to Uni and coming out at 23 with no experience I would take the job at 18 because I would have 5 years IT experience come 23 and be on a good salary, far better than what I started on when I left Uni.
Uni was great for getting p!ssed and stoned and great social life and looks good on a CV but its not the most important thing to have and isn't critical for you getting a job.
For example when I was 18 I snubbed the junior jobs that were 9k (local not London) but when I came out of Uni I was expecting far too much (like 20k salary) and ended up starting on 11k locally. If I had taken one of the junior positions at 18 I would have been on more than the 11k when I was 23 and had a much healthier liver! I wouldn't have had anywhere near as good time but it all depends whats more important to you. Starting at the very bottom and skipping Uni at 18 and working your way to having decent experience by the time you would be leaving Uni? Or go to Uni, have a fantastic time and come out at 23 and start on a low salary still needing to gain experience and work your way up the ladder and be on less money than what you would have been on if you had gone straight out to work?
Thats how I see it because of my own personal experiences. Obviously there are those who come out of Uni and land on their feet with a very well paid job. All depends of the career you choose and how well you do in your degree and what is most important to the employers in that particular industry.
I still think experience is far more important though. Someone who has a degree and an MCSE for example and no experience is not as an attractive applicant as someone who has 2+ years IT experience and no degree or MCSE IMHO.
If I was given the choice now of going straight into an IT job at 18 on a really low salary or going to Uni and coming out at 23 with no experience I would take the job at 18 because I would have 5 years IT experience come 23 and be on a good salary, far better than what I started on when I left Uni.
Uni was great for getting p!ssed and stoned and great social life and looks good on a CV but its not the most important thing to have and isn't critical for you getting a job.
For example when I was 18 I snubbed the junior jobs that were 9k (local not London) but when I came out of Uni I was expecting far too much (like 20k salary) and ended up starting on 11k locally. If I had taken one of the junior positions at 18 I would have been on more than the 11k when I was 23 and had a much healthier liver! I wouldn't have had anywhere near as good time but it all depends whats more important to you. Starting at the very bottom and skipping Uni at 18 and working your way to having decent experience by the time you would be leaving Uni? Or go to Uni, have a fantastic time and come out at 23 and start on a low salary still needing to gain experience and work your way up the ladder and be on less money than what you would have been on if you had gone straight out to work?
Thats how I see it because of my own personal experiences. Obviously there are those who come out of Uni and land on their feet with a very well paid job. All depends of the career you choose and how well you do in your degree and what is most important to the employers in that particular industry.
19 June 2003, 07:49 PM
#56
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So you would pay a grad fresh out of uni with no exp more than a worker in the field you're hiring in who has 3+ years of exp?
19 June 2003, 07:58 PM
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Im beginning to agree with peeps who are saying degrees are the norm now. Most of my friends LEAVE uni this year/next year and the kind of jobs they could get compared with me and my Business A-level is just laughable, unless i get really lucky and some big company take pity and stick me on a training programme or something
19 June 2003, 10:22 PM
#58
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a few years work experience may or may not be more valuable but how are you gonna get the experience without some qualifications? It is 'possible' but it's also far more likely if you're educated.
All depends on the career really. For example, to be a computer programmer you need either a) qualifications(i.e. degree, HND etc.), b) have done programming and have some form of portfolio to prove you can program, c) spend years doing crappy IT work (data entry, support etc.) and work your way up if you get the breaks or d) **** someone in personnel
You'll have a better chance of a good job with a degree than without one. It gives you choices and as someone said before, opens doors (or at least makes them wider).
IMHO, you've got 45 years (which is a lot) ahead of you so 3/4 years not 'earning' and getting qualified is not that much in the scheme of things. You may have not earnt x amount in cash in those years but a) you've got the rest of your life to go earning money, buy houses, cars etc. and b) you'll probably have a great time. Working life is far more stressful and you 'have' to get up in the mornings
All depends on the career really. For example, to be a computer programmer you need either a) qualifications(i.e. degree, HND etc.), b) have done programming and have some form of portfolio to prove you can program, c) spend years doing crappy IT work (data entry, support etc.) and work your way up if you get the breaks or d) **** someone in personnel
You'll have a better chance of a good job with a degree than without one. It gives you choices and as someone said before, opens doors (or at least makes them wider).
IMHO, you've got 45 years (which is a lot) ahead of you so 3/4 years not 'earning' and getting qualified is not that much in the scheme of things. You may have not earnt x amount in cash in those years but a) you've got the rest of your life to go earning money, buy houses, cars etc. and b) you'll probably have a great time. Working life is far more stressful and you 'have' to get up in the mornings
