Designers and why Jap designed cars look awful...
09 May 2003, 01:47 PM
#61
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
###
PMSL, Mycroft are you Terry Thomas or perhaps Rodger Moore , more likely Chris Eubank ? ...I'd rather drive a 'TOYOTA' Soarer than an Aston, come on how much crap is that. FFS
###
Have you driven either car?
PMSL, Mycroft are you Terry Thomas or perhaps Rodger Moore , more likely Chris Eubank ? ...I'd rather drive a 'TOYOTA' Soarer than an Aston, come on how much crap is that. FFS
###
Have you driven either car?
09 May 2003, 01:55 PM
#63
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
camk, still as narrow minded as before I see. I am guessing that's the effect of living in Germany. 
If anybody needs to take his head out of his ugly but, that would be you. You and others on here may not realise it, but yoiu talk so much crap it's not even funny anymore!
If anybody needs to take his head out of his ugly but, that would be you. You and others on here may not realise it, but yoiu talk so much crap it's not even funny anymore!
09 May 2003, 02:28 PM
#64
Its a car ffs, whats all the mission cr4p, I cant imagine any real international multi millionaire love god man of mystery being all that arsed about aging Japanese cars that they have to go on about it on every bulletin board in the free world, maybe if you care about them so much you should open a sanctury for them to protect injured ones and nurse them back to health, it could be called Mycroft's Donkey Sanctuary.
As for the peasant thing, what are you on about, we are not in fuedal times and you are not lord of the manor, you are just another bloke driving around in a motor vehicle, you have no more right to the road than anybody else who pays road tax.
You are only superior being in your own mind, the rest of the world seems somewhat less convinced. Mind you I do enjoy the banter....
As for the peasant thing, what are you on about, we are not in fuedal times and you are not lord of the manor, you are just another bloke driving around in a motor vehicle, you have no more right to the road than anybody else who pays road tax.
You are only superior being in your own mind, the rest of the world seems somewhat less convinced. Mind you I do enjoy the banter....
09 May 2003, 02:43 PM
#65
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Claudius,
Thanks for your insight but as you know living abroad expands your horizons and views, I'm certainly not closed minded. I ask you to think about this ,I'm not the one saying that a Toyota Soarer is more preferable than an Aston Martin. please find me someone else who thinks like that. The man is clearly in love with the Soarer 'experience', however don't come on here and try and sell me that its better just cause he thinks so. I'm with popular opinion on this. Clearly most sane adults and all kids would have an Aston Martin, over a Toyota.
If 'The Soarer' were really so good then why is the Toyota not more well known, why do young kids not dream of driving a Soarer, why does James Bond not drive a Toyota.
You may not like it but popular opinion is really what counts when it comes to what's accepted as desireable. Despite what I personally think of General Public's opinion on fashion,music and the rest.
The only positive point from Mycroft seems to be he thinks his car handles and drives better, he thinks its more exclusive but i disagree on that as exclusive to me does not just mean rare. Surely car ownership is a 3D thing involving so many factors. All round an Aston Martin will be so much better than a Toyota that I hardly even believe I'm arguing it.
Thanks for your insight but as you know living abroad expands your horizons and views, I'm certainly not closed minded. I ask you to think about this ,I'm not the one saying that a Toyota Soarer is more preferable than an Aston Martin. please find me someone else who thinks like that. The man is clearly in love with the Soarer 'experience', however don't come on here and try and sell me that its better just cause he thinks so. I'm with popular opinion on this. Clearly most sane adults and all kids would have an Aston Martin, over a Toyota.
If 'The Soarer' were really so good then why is the Toyota not more well known, why do young kids not dream of driving a Soarer, why does James Bond not drive a Toyota
. You may not like it but popular opinion is really what counts when it comes to what's accepted as desireable. Despite what I personally think of General Public's opinion on fashion,music and the rest.
The only positive point from Mycroft seems to be he thinks his car handles and drives better, he thinks its more exclusive but i disagree on that as exclusive to me does not just mean rare. Surely car ownership is a 3D thing involving so many factors. All round an Aston Martin will be so much better than a Toyota that I hardly even believe I'm arguing it.
09 May 2003, 02:49 PM
#66
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jacko, people often ask me would I have this or that in replacement if I had the money, I do have the money... literally if I wished to own and run any car available I could.
I could, if I wished, drive to the AM garage in Reading and buy a new Vanquish, frankly it wouldn't really have much effect on me financially.
I bought my DB7 whilst at the time owning a V8 Volante and a Bentley Turbo... and 3-4 other cars as well...
I have the 'choice' every morning I wake nothing has tempted me away [except nearly Durzels R33]... and every time I drive my Soarer I wish that when I went to buy that bloody DB7 I had known about them.
I would still owned the Aston, I'm a snob at heart and had to have one ,
But I wouldn't have persevered for 3-4 years it would have gone after a year and the Soarer put in its stead.
That is part of the reason why I get invites to drive cars like the Vanquish/XKR/Masers/Ferraris'... I could buy one/two and that makes me a very welcome sight in any showroom!
I could, if I wished, drive to the AM garage in Reading and buy a new Vanquish, frankly it wouldn't really have much effect on me financially.
I bought my DB7 whilst at the time owning a V8 Volante and a Bentley Turbo... and 3-4 other cars as well...
I have the 'choice' every morning I wake nothing has tempted me away [except nearly Durzels R33]... and every time I drive my Soarer I wish that when I went to buy that bloody DB7 I had known about them.
I would still owned the Aston, I'm a snob at heart and had to have one ,
But I wouldn't have persevered for 3-4 years it would have gone after a year and the Soarer put in its stead.
That is part of the reason why I get invites to drive cars like the Vanquish/XKR/Masers/Ferraris'... I could buy one/two and that makes me a very welcome sight in any showroom!
If anyone needed convincing that Mycroft is absolutely full of sht then there's your proof!
Imagine someone that "rich", who loves cars and is completely up their own ****, driving around in a sub 5K Jap bland-mobile, with a £250 DVLA-special "personal" plate on it - who also spends more time than is normal on a whole load of car forums on the net, constantly raving on about his car and starting arguments for the sake of it! Its all complete fantasy! What a complete and utter total load of bollox!
PMSL @ "Liecroft"
09 May 2003, 02:53 PM
#67
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
###
The man is clearly in love with the Soarer 'experience', however don't come on here and try and sell me that its better just cause he thinks so.
###
I don't want you to buy one.
###
If 'The Soarer' were really so good then why is the Toyota not more well known.
###
Because it was never sold here!
###
why do young kids not dream of driving a Soarer.
###
History.
###
why does James Bond not drive a Toyota .
###
Product placement
###
You may not like it but popular opinion is really what counts when it comes to what's accepted as desireable.
###
It has outsold the DB7 10 to 1 in the States, the only 'Western' market for the Soarer... it is rated as the No1 coupe in America still... 3 years after the last one rolled off the production line.
You are just blinkered.
The man is clearly in love with the Soarer 'experience', however don't come on here and try and sell me that its better just cause he thinks so.
###
I don't want you to buy one.
###
If 'The Soarer' were really so good then why is the Toyota not more well known.
###
Because it was never sold here!
###
why do young kids not dream of driving a Soarer.
###
History.
###
why does James Bond not drive a Toyota .
###
Product placement
###
You may not like it but popular opinion is really what counts when it comes to what's accepted as desireable.
###
It has outsold the DB7 10 to 1 in the States, the only 'Western' market for the Soarer... it is rated as the No1 coupe in America still... 3 years after the last one rolled off the production line.
You are just blinkered.
09 May 2003, 02:59 PM
#70
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even now it is still at the top and it has had 12 years of people driving these cars for real and yet it is rated higher than the newly introduced Vanquish... it is not just me... hundreds out there who have independent minds think so too.
http://www.rateitall.com/Topic.asp?I=17585285-0F90-4A74-8764-4F25FA7760E3
http://www.rateitall.com/Topic.asp?I=17585285-0F90-4A74-8764-4F25FA7760E3
09 May 2003, 03:00 PM
#71
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PMSL at his BS answer for everything!
Of course they've outsold the Aston, they're a mass-produced Japmobile which (relatively speaking) cost peanuts - the Aston is an exclusive supercar which only certain people (like Mycroft apparently) can afford
And as for being No.1 - I wonder which "official" chart that's on? Must be the "BSPower Survey"!
Of course they've outsold the Aston, they're a mass-produced Japmobile which (relatively speaking) cost peanuts - the Aston is an exclusive supercar which only certain people (like Mycroft apparently) can afford
And as for being No.1 - I wonder which "official" chart that's on? Must be the "BSPower Survey"!
09 May 2003, 03:02 PM
#73
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it is not!
If you check the cost and the demographic sales tags you will find that the car sold to the same types it was cheaper but it outshone the Aston, it still does... it is smoother, faster, quieter, more reliable, it offered more for the money.
Is that a bad thing?
If you check the cost and the demographic sales tags you will find that the car sold to the same types it was cheaper but it outshone the Aston, it still does... it is smoother, faster, quieter, more reliable, it offered more for the money.
Is that a bad thing?
09 May 2003, 03:04 PM
#74
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Obviously I'm just as blinkered as Toyota Marketing who don't even bother bringing their barges here, what does that tell you. Surely stating that a car sells more than another model in the US not always a negative. The US car market is not exactly known for its innovation and its certainly no representation of European Car needs and wants, in fact its an Ocean apart.
So are you saying that History and Product placement are less important than your 'view' of automotive perfection. History is what shapes the world. Product placement is a 2 way system, the product needs to match the situation where its pitched. James Bond driving a BMW didn't make it a success overnight. As ever your agument comes down to 'Because YOU think so', you have no substance to your argument other than your ego, all your arguments and comments are basically trying to pick faults in other peoples thoughts. You do not personally have a co-herent argument on anything, its all vagueness and minutae.
So are you saying that History and Product placement are less important than your 'view' of automotive perfection. History is what shapes the world. Product placement is a 2 way system, the product needs to match the situation where its pitched. James Bond driving a BMW didn't make it a success overnight. As ever your agument comes down to 'Because YOU think so', you have no substance to your argument other than your ego, all your arguments and comments are basically trying to pick faults in other peoples thoughts. You do not personally have a co-herent argument on anything, its all vagueness and minutae.
09 May 2003, 03:09 PM
#76
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Exclusivity'
The Aston is mass produced on the old production lines at Bloxham, it has some nice touches but the place is a bit 'low rent' to say the least.
The Soarer is built in the 'Lexus' part of the A22 plant... this plant is like a gigantic operating theatre... the cars emerge having built without a rattle or single screw out of place...
The Astons leave Bloxham with 2 week 'fettling' process where the cars are 'brought up to hand built quality' they then promptly fall apart when you get them home... modern cars should drive out the door 100% perfect... not bodged about for 2 weeks getting them right.
The Aston is mass produced on the old production lines at Bloxham, it has some nice touches but the place is a bit 'low rent' to say the least.
The Soarer is built in the 'Lexus' part of the A22 plant... this plant is like a gigantic operating theatre... the cars emerge having built without a rattle or single screw out of place...
The Astons leave Bloxham with 2 week 'fettling' process where the cars are 'brought up to hand built quality' they then promptly fall apart when you get them home... modern cars should drive out the door 100% perfect... not bodged about for 2 weeks getting them right.
09 May 2003, 03:25 PM
#79
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My post but last also brings us back to the element of design and its' effect on 'buidability'... the Toyota guys were always frustrated about how things start to rattle and fall aoart on European cars... it was the Japanese Engineers/Designers who set about the interlock designs we now accept as the norm.
We used to be able to 'get at' almost any part of our cars interior, remove and replace it without too much hassle... this meant that nothing really locked anything else into place... the car rattled... DB7s' still do... the Japanese started to lockup the interior... this inter-dependence is awful for non Japanese because the parts fail and you have to remove so much to get at them.
The rear lights on the Soarer is a prime example... to change a bulb is a bloody nightmare... 2hours is about right and if its your first time a whole afternoon... but it means the lamp cluster never rattles and adds harshness... but bulbs do 'go' simply the shock of switching them on will cause their eventually demise... it's called 'heat shock' so what did the Lexus engineers do... they soft switched everything... the Lexus doesn't blow anything very often... every switch and every function is soft switched.
We of course didn't do this, so although it is just as difficult to remove a DB7s' rear cluster the bulbs blow regularly... very bloody irritating... I have never replaced a blown bulb in my Soarer since I bought her... NOT ONE BULB SWITCH OR MOTOR.
We used to be able to 'get at' almost any part of our cars interior, remove and replace it without too much hassle... this meant that nothing really locked anything else into place... the car rattled... DB7s' still do... the Japanese started to lockup the interior... this inter-dependence is awful for non Japanese because the parts fail and you have to remove so much to get at them.
The rear lights on the Soarer is a prime example... to change a bulb is a bloody nightmare... 2hours is about right and if its your first time a whole afternoon... but it means the lamp cluster never rattles and adds harshness... but bulbs do 'go' simply the shock of switching them on will cause their eventually demise... it's called 'heat shock' so what did the Lexus engineers do... they soft switched everything... the Lexus doesn't blow anything very often... every switch and every function is soft switched.
We of course didn't do this, so although it is just as difficult to remove a DB7s' rear cluster the bulbs blow regularly... very bloody irritating... I have never replaced a blown bulb in my Soarer since I bought her... NOT ONE BULB SWITCH OR MOTOR.
09 May 2003, 03:30 PM
#80
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't be arsed to read the whole thread - so I'm just going to throw in my tuppence and apologise if anyone has already said it:
How in gods name can the Soarer be called beautiful???? and saying it reinvented the swoopy GT market? eh?
For years the sceptics had been turning out ungainly badly styled homegrown RWD rubbish. Live axles, pushrod V8s blah blah blah. With the exception of the appalling handling ZR-1 (drive one and scare yourself like I did) most really were terribly ugly. The soarer must have been quite a shock when it was launched.
But, at the time, over in the real world (i.e. Europe) two things were about to happen. GM had just finished the slighly soggy but oh so beautiful Calibra, and Mazda was on the verge of launching (the US styled) generation 3 RX-7, possibly the most beautiful car ever. All was right with the world
The Soarer is an oddity, a blip in the world of car styling. It never really occupied any sort of market slot. Its just sort of there - like a badger really. No real purpose - it just exists.
Ian Callum must have had numerous sleepless nights over the Soarer. That'll make me chuckle all day that will!
I remember now why you were banned from the 200sx forum.
How in gods name can the Soarer be called beautiful???? and saying it reinvented the swoopy GT market? eh?
For years the sceptics had been turning out ungainly badly styled homegrown RWD rubbish. Live axles, pushrod V8s blah blah blah. With the exception of the appalling handling ZR-1 (drive one and scare yourself like I did) most really were terribly ugly. The soarer must have been quite a shock when it was launched.
But, at the time, over in the real world (i.e. Europe) two things were about to happen. GM had just finished the slighly soggy but oh so beautiful Calibra, and Mazda was on the verge of launching (the US styled) generation 3 RX-7, possibly the most beautiful car ever. All was right with the world
The Soarer is an oddity, a blip in the world of car styling. It never really occupied any sort of market slot. Its just sort of there - like a badger really. No real purpose - it just exists.
Ian Callum must have had numerous sleepless nights over the Soarer. That'll make me chuckle all day that will!
I remember now why you were banned from the 200sx forum.
09 May 2003, 03:31 PM
#81
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Some country and western
Posts: 13,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whhopppe de doooooo 
BTW My porker has not blown a bulb yet, cost more than your car in 1991, is worth more now........oh and my Subaru used to rattle, unlike the 944 which does not.
oh and just one more thing though....................
snigger.......................
BTW My porker has not blown a bulb yet, cost more than your car in 1991, is worth more now........oh and my Subaru used to rattle, unlike the 944 which does not.
oh and just one more thing though....................
the Lexus doesn't blow anything very often
09 May 2003, 03:40 PM
#84
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Some country and western
Posts: 13,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To my knowledge it is only the cars built at the A22 Lexus plant that are given soft switching... they all sport Lexus badges somewhere in the World...
I'll be going soon, so make sure any retort is quick and succinct.
09 May 2003, 03:56 PM
#87
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Some country and western
Posts: 13,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it a bird, has it been paintshopped pro'd, is the number plate real, do we care...........Mycrofts car, that does not blow, well apart from goats.
09 May 2003, 04:02 PM
#88
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know the thinking behind it...
I feel it was a mistake...
But there was the 'import ceiling' on sales at the time and other cars made them more money per sale.
So in effect our very own government at the time made this a bad place to market the Soarer.
The European market is notoriously self-centred so it would only be by acceptance here that they would gain a foothold in the mainland.
It is not the whole story I'm sure but it was enough, I think, to stop the importation of a car that would literally have killed the Virage/XJS and crippled the sales of the ageing 928/944 & 6 and 8 series BMWs'
It did all that in the States look at the '91 sales for those cars and then the '92 the Soarer killed the competition... it was killing 911 sales too they dropped 30% as direct result of the Soarer...
I feel it was a mistake...
But there was the 'import ceiling' on sales at the time and other cars made them more money per sale.
So in effect our very own government at the time made this a bad place to market the Soarer.
The European market is notoriously self-centred so it would only be by acceptance here that they would gain a foothold in the mainland.
It is not the whole story I'm sure but it was enough, I think, to stop the importation of a car that would literally have killed the Virage/XJS and crippled the sales of the ageing 928/944 & 6 and 8 series BMWs'
It did all that in the States look at the '91 sales for those cars and then the '92 the Soarer killed the competition... it was killing 911 sales too they dropped 30% as direct result of the Soarer...
09 May 2003, 04:09 PM
#89
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These are all a year old... (from when I re-dyed my leather interior)
[img]
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/183144/6m2.jpg
[/img]
I like this shade more than the grey...
[img]
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/183144/6m2.jpg
[/img]
I like this shade more than the grey...