MGJohn

..... unlike some marques I could mention ....

Safety fast MotorinG whatever you drive.

mccltd

I know M3's are common,
I mean,, just sold my STI7 and bought one, but hey more and more scoobys are around now.
Counted 9 this morning and 5 were in Rally blue,,(no one waves at me anymore )
Loved my scoob but depriciation is hitting them fast and more and more are hitting the market.
Counted 25 STI7's the other day for sale in the used section of Subaru.co.uk.
This is only going to lead to cheapy prices and younger lads driving them but who cannot afford the insurance.
Where will this leave the Scooby...

DazV

chrisp, read MY post again - I didn't accuse anyone of saying the M3 was a "bad car"

It just seems such a common point of contention on this BBS.

I wonder why that is ?

[Edited by DazV - 4/21/2003 1:37:14 AM]

mccltd

DAZV,

Have to agree with you it is pathetic.
Especially as alot of us M3 owners are ex scooby owners, hence why I stil come on here to help out where I can and enjoy the good spirit of most of this board.
There is a word that sums up some of these scooby owners feelings that have the bad feeling.
I remember it from my old days when I had things my friends didn't.

LordLuthor

BMW's make me wretch. They say all the things i dont want to say. I am not suave, sophisticated, well read or wealthy. I know they are the same(ish) price as a spec-ed STI PPP etc, but they still scream MONEY whereas the scoob does not.

I drive a 1991 MR2 Turbo with some well chosen mods, non of them cosmetic, unless you count the lowering springs which are there for handling not looks, and I would not change it for the world. As long as a car does everything you want and you can afford it, I don't think anyone can EVER say - "we would all buy one if we could" because it is just not true. I would not buy a BMW of any description at present if I had any amount of money.

Just to justify my existence on this board, my g/f drives a MY00 PPP in that lovely dark blue. It is technically superior than the MR2, and goes down most roads faster, but I take the 2 seater anyday.

thanks for listening
Andy.

GaryC

As I said, the Tuscan is far far better than the Griff/Cerbera, but still a mile away from the Germans. I know owners put up with it, and call it a 'quirk', but when the door won't open at 6am on the way to work, or the car spends on average 2 months a year in the 'shop', or costs 10% of its value per year to maintain, I don't know if I would call it a 'quirk'


On the VFM issue - To get close to 200mph you would need the £50k 'S' to get over your would need the £75k 'R'. Unrestricted the M3 can touch 185.

TVRs are just no where near as cheap as they were. The base speed 6 model cost as much as an M3, is only marginally quicker than an M3 but doesn't handle as well, has no where near the kit, reliability, space, running costs, residuals, etc. Granted it does look the absolute dogs danglies

To get to 996 Turbo threatening you would need the Tuscan R..... which is only c£5k cheaper than the 911, but again doesn't have the build/residuals/handling/reliability/space/etc of the 911, and is only modestly quicker and only in a straight line!

TVRs used to be Ferrari beaters at a third of the price. They are still very desirable but no where near the bargains they were!

Little Miss WRX

I hope that the M3 has better steering etc than the 530i sporting....that could be mistaken for a barge if it was on water.
The auto box is not the best, it doesn't seem to realise that a lower gear would be more suitable for going uphill until it is nearly stalling.

For an executive, luxury cruiser (and I do mean in the liner fashion ) the 530 does the job, superb build quality, you'd feel safe in an accident and it has excellent security. But for an exciting driving experience.....nah.

I wouldn't say no to an M3 for sure, but it wouldn't be first on my list of new cars.

loddrik2

LordLuthor, get a life. Who gives a toss what image a car has, I couldn't give a toss if a car screamed peadophile, if the car was good, I would drive it regardless of image. It is pretty sad that you would dismiss a car on the basis of a crude steroetype. Your loss in the long term. A car is a car, if you regard it as a status symbol, then you are no better than the people who enjoy BMW's for the same reasons you dislike them. If you were truly passionate about cars, you would be oblivious to any negative perceptions associated with particular brands and appriciate the integrity of the product.

[Edited by loddrik2 - 4/21/2003 10:46:19 AM]

[Edited by loddrik2 - 4/21/2003 10:48:24 AM]

LordLuthor

If a car screamed paedophile and you don't care, then I suggest you have you head read.

No matter how much you deny it, a car makes a statement about you when other people see you in it. This can be used to your advantage or can be ignored by arrogant people like you. If you are sensible and on the ball you can choose your car carefully and it can be a car you love and it can reflect your personality, or you can buy a paedophile car and get stabbed.

[Edited by LordLuthor - 4/21/2003 11:45:21 AM]

LordLuthor

...by the way, I bet you edited that post twice to perfect the grammar of the last sentence lol!!

I on the other hand just spelt arronant wrong.

MooseRacer

I had a 318 as a company car a while back. I choose it over high spec Vectra's and previous gen. Audi A4 because imo it was a better car.

Simple as that really, what a load of pants is written about them.



Like loddrik2 says - people who sneer at bmw's because they think the drivers are sad aspirational vankers are much the same as those they think they are sneering at.



Edit: LordLuthor you changed a little more than the spelling of one word, did you not?

[Edited by MooseRacer - 4/21/2003 11:52:25 AM]

chrisp

BMW M3 40K, 0-60 5.3, 0-100 12.3, 155mph

996 turbo 86K, 0-60 4.1, 0-100 10.0, 189 mph

Tuscan S 49K, 0-60 4.0, 0-100 9.3, 190+mph

The M3 is restricted to 155mph to destrict IIRC it would require a change to the ECU, which makes it non standard and modified and we are comparing factory specs here . Plus I bet the 185mph is not a BMW figure so at best it an indicated figure which could be as much as 10% out.

So looking at those figures a 49K Tuscan S would destroy an M3 and humble a 911 Turbo which is what I said before .

Richie1

But in this thread you basically sneer at 316/318/320 drivers - http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=200053


They are built the same as the other cars i.e. very well. Ok they may have an "image" but then that doesnt bother you.... Or does it....Whats the deal ??





[Edited by Richie1 - 4/21/2003 3:21:20 PM]

Big Goon

Anybody wanna swap their E46-M3 for my STi7-PPP ?

Anyway the best part of this thread is the ***** that said his Corrado eats M3's.

jonmorris

I love the M3 and would consider one if I had the money and somewhere safe to park it. I may be able to afford the car but running costs, insurance etc are all factors I'm sure a lot of people don't consider.. or kid themselves isn't important. Oh and yes, I'm certain a LOT of cars are financed to the hilt.

I like the M3 because it looks the part (and may well be one of the last BMW cars to look normal now they've become all ugly, in my personal opinion). The options are staggering although then it's no longer a £40k car but something approaching £50k or beyond.

There are two types of person; those who appreciate a good car and those who need the badge to "prove their worth". They buy different BMW's.

Those who appreciate a good car would more likely save for the M3 or 330, while the other is happy with his 318 (which is probably so underpowered, the driver would have been better off getting a Mondeo, Vectra or Passat).

A trade paper I write for has an advertisement in there this week for a sales guy at a major phone distributor. The add says "£25-30k + BMW". That says it all! In fact, it may as well have said "Salary not confirmed but you'll definitely get a BMW".

Finally, the car IS common. On Friday, with nice weather, I went down to Southend (yes, I know!) and on the way I saw a few. Not as many as some others have said but still quite a lot for a relatively short journey.

One car was funny. On the A406 in Edmonton, a silver M3 convertible looking like the stereotypical "drug dealers" car, crusing along nice and slow with two BIG black occupants who either WERE drug dealers for real or enjoyed playing the part!

[Edited by jonmorris - 4/21/2003 4:18:47 PM]

sparkster

"As a car, the M3 is awesome. Track or road it will better an STi (except perhaps in the wet and very initial traction) and ownership over 2/3 years will cost less. It is almost half the price of a 911 yet does everything better (except adhere to the badge snobs). No car comes close for mixing supercar performance with every day use.......and you'd say no because 'BMW just isn't you'?? You need your bumps felt"


Ok i would say yes - then ide sell the thing and buy something "different". I'm sorry guys but i just dont like the M3.

We all have our different feelings about different cars and this world would be very boring if everybody liked the M3.

Anyway, people dont just buy a car because of performance. There are many other factors that go with purchasing a car.

There are people out there who would rather own a Lada than an M3. I dont think there is anything wrong with that.

I dont need me "bumps felt", i'm just different and happy to stay that way!!

LordLuthor

It seems fairly clear that you are not allowed your own opinion on here. If you go along with the crowd then you get the pat on the back, but as soon as you say you don't like this or that and give your personal opinion as to why then some to$$er starts beating on you.

I hate BMW's. I hate the people who I have met who drive them. Until I meet a BMW driver that I like my opinion will not change. Like he said earlier, the idiot in the passenger seat was rude and obnoxious. This is also my opinion.

cue - tirade of personal abuse from all the BMW lovers/drivers who can't handle opinions. Come on children, take a pop at my mum or how long my John Thomas is. Suddenly develop a hate for my MR2 Turbo and dis that.

Or, just leave me with my opinion and I'll leave you with yours. And as for the paedophile, I notice no-one is coming to his defense...

loddrik2

Richie1, I was refering to brand image, ie people dismissing BMW's on the grounds of them being BMW's.

loddrik2

Are you not going to edit and correct the spelling mistake in your last post then??!!

yikes

This thread has surely run it course and any continuance seems only likely to cause bad feeling.

Much sense has been written by Scooby owners who also appreciate other performance cars and much nonsense has been written by others who are perhaps blinkered by their otherwise admirably loyalty to a superb car.

I love my Scooby but I also love my M3.

Whatever vehicle I might happen to be driving, I am courteous. I don't "give it the big 'un", I do indicate, I do let other drivers out (rarely get thanked, mind you!) and give respect to other road users (even if they don't deserve it), so this "image" cr@p is really pi$$ing me off.

Both cars are extremely competent, high performance, highly enjoyably and superb value for money, whilst delivering different driving experiences and overall packages.

For those considering TVRs, I would love to own one, but although I could afford to finance one, I couldn't afford to run the bloody thing.

A friend of mine owns a modified Chimaera and the car is a hoot and a real head turner.

He spend £1,050 on a service (his cheapest yet) from a highly competent specialist. I took him to pick it up. Within 24 hours, he had electrical faults - the car wouldn't turn off and the fans refused to operate!

From the horses mouth when he drove my M3 - "I'd hate for one of these to be chasing me down the country lanes". The M3, as does the Scoob, handles bends as if they weren't there.

Both the Impreza and the M3 are almost too competent, whereas the TVR, rapid as they are, don't handle in the same way. TVR just don't have the R&D resources that BMW and to a lesser degree, Subaru, have.

Scooby owners, many of whom have not driven an M3 or other performance vehicles seem to thing that a RWD vehicle will be left behind in "the twisties" by their magic AWD machines, and that is complete rubbish.

Forget badges, and whatever you drive, just extract as much fun as you can (safely) when the conditions allow!

As a side note and referring to the topic of the thread, I probably see 3 Scoobs for every 1 M3.

So what!

Cheers
Richard

Edotid foor a speeling mishtake!

[Edited by yikes - 4/21/2003 10:40:15 PM]

jonmorris

I can't see how or why BMW have this image of being so high quality and reliable. I'm not saying they're bad quality (they're not) but it's the advertising they pump down your throat that says "quality engineering" and if they say it enough times people believe it.

Even the press buy it and talk of this quality German engineering as if nobody else in the world knows how to build a car (and that the rest of the car industry have no idea how BMW make things!).

Knowing an ad agency who used to do BMW, I can say that they always made sure to keep telling people this over and over. It certainly works. VAG do the exact same thing because us Brits perceive German cars to be the best in the world.

Go to BMW forums and they have the same problems everyone else does.. bad/rude/incompetent dealers, engine problems, design faults and huge prices to get "simple" things done.

Their cars also depreciate in value too, although some people [and I'm not meaning people on here because people with performance cars know the score on running costs, insurance, depreciation etc] seem to think that spending £50k on a car is a good investment.

Look at a 7 series, or even an X5 and they take quite a hit. The percentage drop may be smaller than a Ford or Vauxhall, but on such a high starting price it's actually a higher figure.

In many respects, if you buy a cheaper car like a Skoda Octavia then although it takes a bigger percentage hit, you're still better off financially at the end of three years.. but it doesn't have a badge which is why magazines have been able to get the public to rate a Leon, A3, Golf and Octavia and see how many people choose the Seat or Skoda over the others? Surprise surprise, most go with the Audi or VW and pay £5k extra - or more.

My friend got a VW Passat V6 4Motion. After 2 years he got it for £8500. Okay, that was from the leasing company but still - come on, that's a MASSIVE drop. The car is "well built" and "solid" but it's not THAT great. Imagine the poor sod who paid around £20k for one new!

I'd like an M3 and maybe one day I'll have one. It will be because I want the car, appreciate it for what it is and NOT because it's got a BMW badge on the front. I wish more people were like this but, let's be honest, most silver BMW's you see on the motorway during the week are owned by people who know virtually sod all about the car - except "it's a solid, well engineered, reliable car that means I've made it".

[Edited by jonmorris - 4/21/2003 10:50:52 PM]

silver-sub

M3's are one of the most over exagerated cars.
For the price they don't do it no justice.
£40K = a Skyline any day and they are not common as muck
£10K = Supra TT, which would waste it

Scooby thrasing M3(old) video:

http://www.wrxworld.com/videos/pir3-2.wmv

polarbearit

I checked our work car park the other day... 3 E46 M3's, 8 Impreza's, 2 Boxters, 3 911's oh and 1 Skyline GTR

Not sure if its a typical day or not here, but I have seen lots of M3's around lately... Nice cars and I'm sure they handle well, but the garage at the end of my road has one in and I here pull away every now and then and it sounds really rough

camk

JonMorris.
If BMW is not quality engineering then what other mass market car manufacturer's are better ? Given their engines are used in many 'other' top class applications and they are still a mass market car manufacturer. They have entiries in most classes of cars all of which appear to be very popular with the punters. They appear to have it pretty much stitched up.
They are usually also very well quoted in customer sat survey's. I aprreciate that many other "manufacturer's " appear to be catching up but remember that Seat's and Skoda's are actually successfully using VW technology. The quality difference in even just the materials used in the cabin's does differ quite considerably. Its more than just motoring magazine hype. Its easy to say buy an Octavia s you'll lose less money but if losing less money was a big consideration then no-one would buy fast cars.

Despite what most people on here say cars are an aspirational purchase. People compare performance figures to the top marques and equate costs to exclusivity(TVR answer) or performance per pound(JapFest Owners). Thats aspirational its buying something that adds to your outward view to the world.
BMW were also the highest quoted Auto manufacturer in 2002 Global Engineering awards....higher than Porsche by some 20 places. The scale of their manufacturing and the level of success they have in any market they enter shows that what they do appeals to those who buy. That is the sign of true engineering success. Not some Anti Populist gut feel but crazy Car Nerds who spend the day on the internet.

Regards
Camk

advevo

subaru was faster than bmw but it is so easy to drive a 4wd on the limit on track compared to RWD.

I like the M3 very much but i find it to expensive compared to an evo or sti.

But bmw is making the M2 it s comming in 2005 it will be around 1100kg 240hp rwd and you can rev it till 9000 rpm.

let the old times roll the new e30 M3 is comming back in a new jacket.

or what do you guys think of the new nissan 350z that s fecking car also.

advevo

4wd is rally inspired and 4wd rulez on slippery surfaces but on a dry track i rather drive a RWD

on a wet track rather drive my evo.

camk

Adevo,
Yes but the point is that many M3 owners would rather drive to work in the comfortable and stylish surroundings of an M3 on the 99.9% of the days he doesn't Rally or track his car....than in some RiceMachine that his wife wouldn't allow in the driveway. It doesn't make either better just that its a reminder to take all dimensions into account.

advevo

yes thru

But my dream garage would be an mits evo 8RS next to an M3 thats everything i need.

i would never buy an m3 for posing
i am a driver but thru 99,99 procent of m3 owners are not using the nice rear diff were it s made for (going completely sideways)



I drove an m3 once i can powerslide it around roundabouts it s so fecking awesome you won t believe it.

I have an evo but i rather powerslide an m3 around roundabouts than my evo. honest. But it s the damn price tag of an m3 so i wait for the m2 i know have an 330i next to my evo i can slide it to but on the end of the slide i miss the LSD on the 330i.

andre

Freak

lmao@scooby owners calling m3s common.

funniest thing ive heard in a long while