Surely you realise there is no such thing as society, to quote a certain female ex prime minister (and I have to say I agree with everything she says!) :

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant'. 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problems on society. And you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours. People have got their entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There is no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation"

 

Somehow I knew we'd get the Wicked Witch being dragged into this.

 

Have decent law-abiding people not met their obligation in paying their taxes and living in a way that does not cause a problem to the people around them?

Why should those decent people, who work hard for what they have, tolerate their property being damaged or taken from them, for example?

We pay taxes for a reason, and that reason is not generally that we want to see it wasted and not spent on the things that benefit us. We are supposed to get services in exchange for those taxes, although it seems increasingly to me that those services are not of the standard that they should be.

In general, if someone has made no contribution to the country, they should expect nothing in return. Those people who do contribute have a right to expect the services they have paid for, surely?

 

Whatever I think of her personally, she was a very strong leader and I respect her for it.

 

Diablo - take a look at this.

Fluffer
Scooby Regular
Posts: 42
From: the grrrrreeen green grass of home
Registered:
[ADD TO MY VIP LIST]

posted Tuesday, March 25, 2003 18:14

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New to the board and I've had a good look around- the moderators and webmaster seem to be control freaks. I'll hang around and see if things improve as I love my Impreza and like to find out new things about it.
why do you have a subject about the war in a car forum?


webmaster
Posts: 2612
From:
Registered:
[ADD TO MY VIP LIST]

posted Tuesday, March 25, 2003 18:21

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LOL @ Fluffer

It's incredible what lengths some people will go to.

Do you really think people are STUPID enough to think that a person who has JUST registered (with an email address which contains an obvious typo - indicating to me that it was just recently set up in a hurry) makes his first post on a thread in a "WAR" forum, within minutes even though he is only interested in his car, and can't see the point of a war forum.

How incredibly pathetic.

Regards

webmaster

 

Indeed ID. I am quite happy to engage in sensible conversation with anybody, but somebody who is unwilling to reveal who they previously posted as, even when they have said they still stand by everything they said under that previous id, is almost impossible to respect. Let *me* make up my mind whether it matters or whether it is relevant. What is the big secret Fluffer? Just my opinion.

 

*faints*

TelBoy agrees with Image Doctor????

Forget about white rappers and black golfers, I now know the world has gone mad!!!



(I also know I can't spell!)

[Edited by TurboKitty - 3/26/2003 4:10:22 PM]

 

>>In general, if someone has made no contribution to the country, they should expect nothing in return

I would expect society to look after them. no-one is given the choice about what country they wish to be born into.

 

I couldnt work out why the webmaster said that- I think he got his knickers in a twist too. I think he suspects I was Luke who I supported on a topic. Thats 3 cases of mistaken identity- I'm not going to reveal who I was cos I reckon most of you would never have heard of me and be very dissapointed!
as for the typo in email address- you try getting a hotmail account with a simple name without adding a typo!

I stand by everything I've said and everything I'm going to say you are free to ignore it should you choose.

 

Beat me to it TK

Are you sure Tel hasn't been kidnapped and forced to type against his will? I'm sure he was giving a clue when he claimed he was willing to enter into sensible debate with anyone. TelBoy sensible??

bros

 

LOL the notion that fluffypants has an Impreza is laughable (unless it's a toy one)

 

So i'll repeat the question Fluffer; why the big secret?

I'm ready for the disappointment - i can handle it, honestly.

 

See telboy and ID bond here..................

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=191695

[Edited by image doctor - 3/26/2003 4:13:41 PM]

 

>>you try getting a hotmail account with a simple name without adding a typo

in all the posts you're written, I've only seen one typo. That out of about 200 lines of text.

So creating a hotmail account, having to type in, what, 8 letters, and you get a typo?

hmmmm. judgement reserved....

 

Ok, ok, it was a moment of madness. I'm sorry, ok?!!

 

So krankyd, you're saying that if people choose not to work and would rather live on benefits, that everyone else should support them? What if we all decided we want to do that?

I recognise that some people *can't* work, and they should be supported, but those people who choose not to work should not be entitled to anything.

 

But are you the real TelBoy or the Saddam-a-like double?

 

fluff

email webmaster@scoobynet.co.uk or me at the above profile with your original username. We will look into it & see if we can get it re-assigned for you.

 

no I meant try getting a hotmail account like davesmith@hotmail.com
without spelling it dvaesmthi@hotmail.com
get my drift now! BTW neither of these are my address

edited to add: the old name can sink to the bottom of the ocean thanks for the offer though! I'm quite taken with the name fluffer! FYI I have some other related names I might use also as long as this is in line with S/N policy

[Edited by Fluffer - 3/26/2003 4:22:18 PM]

 

Good idea Puff. I'm sure Fluffer will have *no* objection to that.

Will you Fluffer?

 

>>So krankyd, you're saying that if people choose not to work and would rather live on benefits, that everyone else should support them

You're doing it already.

You'll always find that people will want to sponge.
So if these people are lying in the gutter, after being hit by a car, your comments would be along the line of:
`you don't pay taxes. Don't expect the NHS to treat you at all`

really?

 

lol @ puff - called the bluff!!

 

no bluff I just choose to stick with this name in order to frustrate idiots like you who want me to change!

 

Yes, we do it already, but that doesn't make it right. And if you notice, the whole point of this thread was to discuss changes that need to be made to the way in which this country works.

<flame suit on>

As for the question, if people don't pay for a service, they should not get the benefit from it. I don't see the NHS as any different from any other service in that respect.

I think the NHS is a pretty much a waste of time now anyway, and I believe that people should have the choice of opting out of paying for it and making their own health care arrangements.

 

Now that is interesting TK- opt out of the NHS- well I'd also like to opt out of paying for other peoples kids education, paying for a war I don't believe in and also out of paying for the police etc as I don't use any of their services.

The problem is if we do that then society would collapse. Its a difficult one and I'm not sure where to start. A good place would be getting taxes out of those people that continually try to dodge them (ie corporate thieves and the ultra rich)

 

TK - so you would deny a person medical help on the grounds he `hasn't earnt it`

I'm glad I live in such a caring and understanding society......

 

Thereby leading to a widening of the gap between rich and poor, so that the rich get well and the por get dead earlier. Just look at the States - fantastic healthcare if you're rich, but God help you if you're poor. Chance of a replacement kidney if you're poor and black in the States - just about zero.

Yes, taxes are high here, but they're a damn sight higher elsewhere. Then again, a French ex-employee went there on holiday recently and her daughter had a sinus problem which required an operation. She was seen by a consultant and operated on within a week. More likely a year in the UK.

But then I'm one of the few who would willingly pay 10% more in tax for better services (as I would have to if I lived in France, Germany etc). Most British people, however, would not.

[Edited by bros2 - 3/26/2003 4:40:51 PM]

 

It's not that he hasn't earnt it, it's that he hasn't paid for it. Someone has to pay for it y'know, why should it be me, or any other tax payer?

Would you pay for someone else's shopping just because they didn't feel like paying? Would you pay for services used by someone you've never met because they didn't want to that day? No? why pay for someone else's health care then?

 

So why do you pay taxes at all? You don't have kids, but you're paying for an eduaction service. You're not mentally deranged, but someone's funding Broadmoor.

 

TK - You don't have to pay for anyone else's services. Just stop paying tax.

My point about the NHS is that *on the whole*, even if people do abuse the system, the good is given to the greater number of people.